Yet another question abouth lights...

[Curiousous]

Hey you guys, I know, this is a subject reheated over and over again, I have searched many diufferent threads and forums, but failed to answer all my doubts.

I have a SJ DR60 tent which is 2x2 and little shy of 6 ft high, which is quite tight.
There will be some ducted ventilation in it going on anyway, to scrub the air.
I am going with HPS/MH lamps, and I am hesitating between 250 and 400w.
I have found in different guides that I could do with a 150w ok, and 250 is I think commonly recommended. I am considering the 400w, in case I want to upgrade soon.

Now there are 2 things unclear for me about this:
1) Can I oversupply light? Assuming temeperature is not an issue here at all, can I supply too much light to the plants?

2) Considering lamp heat output now, what would run hotter?:

250W HPS @ 110% super lumen mode (250w ebalast of course), or
400W HPS @ 75% (400w ebalast)

And what would be the effective difference with yeld amount/quality, if lets say I had the 400w dimmed to 250 and the 250 running @100% ?

Thans in advance and regards to all.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

1. Yes. The leaves or even buds can have bleaching. Light stress.

2. I have contacted a few light bulb companies and they say that dimming or boosting HID bulbs will ruin the light spectrum and boosting will cause early failure as well.

I have also heard boosting can help with an older standard HPS but I don't keep bulbs past their recommended grow life.

......I would stick to the standard of 50watts per square foot for HPS lighting. So 250 watt HPS run at 250 watts would be more than intense enough to get big buds. Well 4 square feet of them.

You could also use 2 foot T5 HO fluorescents. I have an 8 bulb in a 3x3. Bet it would work great in the 2x2 with some flowering bulbs mixed in with the standard full spectrum ones. The 8 bulb is just under 200 watts but would cover your tent well.

 

[Curiousous]

Thanks MichiganMedGrower,

I'm going with HID, it's my personal preference. I find it more elegant and less fuss about.

By 'more than intense enough' do you mean stress for the plants? I got the impression 250W was a power rating often matched with this grow area. I'm prepared not to be quite as effective as I could, I'm doing this casually, but want to be a little future proof should things become interesting for me...

 

[THE KONASSURE]

get a 1000w ballast that go`s down to 250w or 400w

then get an air cooled hood

place the hood on the top of your tent and cut a hole for the light to shine into the tent

It will stay cooler that way and get you more space

use a fan to suck air out of the aircooled hood to outside

then use a 600w hps lamp @ 400w or a 400w @ 400w or a 600w @ 600w or a 1000w @ 600w ot a 1000w @ 1000w super

Plenty future proof

and an aircooled hood above your tent will give you extra room in your tent

biggest problem with HID`s over led`s, induction and cfl/tube type lamps is that HID`s get hot and can start a fire upon contact so when using them in such a small space a cool tube or a aircooled hood is a must

for bigger areas an 800mm 1m or 1.2m parabolic reflector works best but in a small area like that you need to put the lamp outside the area and shine it in only way to get the same kinda grow space you`d get with leds

otherwise your going to lose space trying to keep the top of the plants from optimal distance away from the lamp so they don`t burn

 

[Curiousous]

I appreciate your input, THE KONASSURE, but nothing you wrote is relevant to my setup or the situation I described. Lets stay on topic please Thanks!

 

[THE KONASSURE]

I appreciate your input, THE KONASSURE, but nothing you wrote is relevant to my setup or the situation I described. Lets stay on topic please Thanks!

Dude your using a dr60 who even vegges in a tent that small ?

its small if I was using that I would cut a hole in the top and use leds so I could grow the biggest plant I could in that tiny tent

Hell veg like 4 plants in that thing and buy a dr120 to flower in

You have a tiny tent and your trying to squeeze a hps in there just give the lamp plenty of space or you will have a fire without a cool hood or cool tube

 

[VegasWinner]

led would be easier and cooler. peace

 

[emepher]

I appreciate your input, THE KONASSURE, but nothing you wrote is relevant to my setup or the situation I described. Lets stay on topic please Thanks!

Wowsers, I thought everyone was pretty well on topic and the advice was solid. What they are saying is a 250W HPS is pushing it with your setup so you'd better rethink that. Some LED or T-5 lighting would probably work as well for you and be safer and easier. That, or get a bigger tent with more ventilation and keep the lamp heat out. And if you want upgradability you can get it, but it will cost you a little, of course. And careful or you'll drive the experts out of your thread rather than getting them to adhere to your topic guidelines. They know way more than you or I, so you want them to share all the knowledge they can.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I appreciate your input, THE KONASSURE, but nothing you wrote is relevant to my setup or the situation I described. Lets stay on topic please Thanks!

It wasnt? ..umm....ok...

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Thanks MichiganMedGrower,

I'm going with HID, it's my personal preference. I find it more elegant and less fuss about.

By 'more than intense enough' do you mean stress for the plants? I got the impression 250W was a power rating often matched with this grow area. I'm prepared not to be quite as effective as I could, I'm doing this casually, but want to be a little future proof should things become interesting for me...

I was stoned and really just meant it is the right amount of light for good results.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Wow everyone. For hid bulbs optimal coverage it is commonly stated by all light manufacturers for high light plants.

250w 2'x2'

400w 3x3

600w 3.5x3.5 up to 4x4

1000w 5x5

I agree at 400w and above you may need an air cooled hood. I used one in my tents. But the op has a dr60 and asked the best way to light it up.

We all know there are many other factors to be covered. The op will get there.

I suggested a relatively cool running HPS or a t5 setup that would be perfect with only an exhaust fan. I have a tent in my living room for veg like that.

 

[Curiousous]

Ok, you are right, that might have come unnecessarily harsh.
Let me go over this again:

• I already have a tent I am going to work with (I am not going to cut holes and modify it's integrity)
• I can handle cooling it.
  
• I am going with HPS/MH lighting out of personal preference and hesitating between couple available lamp powers
• a LITTLE futureproof would be nice, if possible and sensible, if I want to go up a notch with grow area (3x3)
  
• I am aware of general benefits offered by LEDs or CFLs and downsides of HID lamps
  
• I am doing this casually

So I appreciate your advice on plenty futureproof overkill setups, LEDs, CFLs, 800-1200mm reflectors and so on, well noted, if I find myself in a different scenario I will most likely use it.

I am aware my tent is small, perhaps ridiculously small to some ppl, and it might be more compact, cool and energy saving to go with different lighting, but as I wrote before, it's a personal preference that I am going with HID, perhaps not a perfect way to go, I know.

My questions, apparently phrased in a confusing way before, were about proper HID lamp power for this setup, and some technical doubts about running different setups of HID lamps at the same power outputs.

Since it does make sense and checks out that dimming/boosting is not the best for the lamp, and apparently does produce shifts in spectrum. Even tho shifts are not colossal, I probably won't be going with it so eagerly now, and just settle with a 250w setup and the issue is pretty much solved.

So now only curiosity remains, about heat generation comparison of a dimmed and non-dimmed lamp both running at similar power outputs.

Thanks MichiganMedGrower, not sure If I am so bad at verbalizing my questions, that one needs to be high to get them, or you're so amazing that you got it despite being stoned

All in all, you were right guys, I went a little over the top, sorry for that, thanks for contributing and cheers!

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Hey you were a little put off by the cutting up your tent suggestion I thought.

My ballasts are Galaxy. I have a dimmable 1000/ 600/ 400 with 1000 boost. And I have a newer 600/ 400 with 600 boost and I have turned the dimmer down to work with less glare or if a hot spell or problem has happened but you can see how much the Hortilux bulbs change. They go from almost orange to almost pink underpowered.

A 250 watt basic setup even at Home Depot would serve you well. Just make sure you have enough ventilation. You obviously research well from your response about the dimming so skip it and just use the 250 later for veg. And if it is electronic maybe a metal halide will run in it.

 

[VegasWinner]

using an air-cooled hood, will require a filter inside the tent taking away more ceiling space, as well. place the fan outside the tent, you will have to use low pots to keep at least 12" clear inside the tent. some of these tents comewith an extension, to bad you do not have one of those. tight space. peace

 

[Chef420]

I have a 2x4x5 and run a 600w hps. The whole thing came as a kit. It originally came with wing but I bought a cool tube and it solved my heat problem.
With limited head space you'll want to consider putting the fan/filter outside the tent.
I use passive intakes and have my cool tube open at one end.
Cool tube>ducting>to outside of tent>fan>filter.
400w hps will give you a bit of room if you want to increase your tent size (slightly) in the future.

 

[THE KONASSURE]

Ok, you are right, that might have come unnecessarily harsh.
Let me go over this again:

• I already have a tent I am going to work with (I am not going to cut holes and modify it's integrity)
• I can handle cooling it.
  
• I am going with HPS/MH lighting out of personal preference and hesitating between couple available lamp powers
• a LITTLE futureproof would be nice, if possible and sensible, if I want to go up a notch with grow area (3x3)
  
• I am aware of general benefits offered by LEDs or CFLs and downsides of HID lamps
  
• I am doing this casually

So I appreciate your advice on plenty futureproof overkill setups, LEDs, CFLs, 800-1200mm reflectors and so on, well noted, if I find myself in a different scenario I will most likely use it.

I am aware my tent is small, perhaps ridiculously small to some ppl, and it might be more compact, cool and energy saving to go with different lighting, but as I wrote before, it's a personal preference that I am going with HID, perhaps not a perfect way to go, I know.

My questions, apparently phrased in a confusing way before, were about proper HID lamp power for this setup, and some technical doubts about running different setups of HID lamps at the same power outputs.

Since it does make sense and checks out that dimming/boosting is not the best for the lamp, and apparently does produce shifts in spectrum. Even tho shifts are not colossal, I probably won't be going with it so eagerly now, and just settle with a 250w setup and the issue is pretty much solved.

So now only curiosity remains, about heat generation comparison of a dimmed and non-dimmed lamp both running at similar power outputs.

Thanks MichiganMedGrower, not sure If I am so bad at verbalizing my questions, that one needs to be high to get them, or you're so amazing that you got it despite being stoned

All in all, you were right guys, I went a little over the top, sorry for that, thanks for contributing and cheers!

If you want to run HID

Then I would go with double ended lamps

probably use 3 x 70w lamps myself or say 1 x 315 cmh or a double ended 400w hps 400v ones work best

or 2 to 4 80w to 150w hps lamps you can find them cheap

if you do get a HF digital ballast be aware they can cause problems with peoples wifi and people have been busted by techs from ISP`s coming to investigate customer complaints, people growing in shared living spaces seem to be very prone to these problems

but digital ballasts are normally the best type to go for just check you still get wifi before you go leaving it on for hours at a time if someone might call out the cable guy cos there wifi stopped working

Something I never used to really think about but I do check if my equipment is messing with radios, wifi or tv`s locally as that can get you busted easy.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

If you want to run HID

Then I would go with double ended lamps

probably use 3 x 70w lamps myself or say 1 x 315 cmh or a double ended 400w hps 400v ones work best

or 2 to 4 80w to 150w hps lamps you can find them cheap

if you do get a HF digital ballast be aware they can cause problems with peoples wifi and people have been busted by techs from ISP`s coming to investigate customer complaints, people growing in shared living spaces seem to be very prone to these problems

but digital ballasts are normally the best type to go for just check you still get wifi before you go leaving it on for hours at a time if someone might call out the cable guy cos there wifi stopped working

Something I never used to really think about but I do check if my equipment is messing with radios, wifi or tv`s locally as that can get you busted easy.

DE lamps require high ceilings. And Galaxy ballasts. The grow amp they call it has very low RF interference.

 

[emepher]

I am aware my tent is small, perhaps ridiculously small to some ppl, and it might be more compact, cool and energy saving to go with different lighting, but as I wrote before, it's a personal preference that I am going with HID, perhaps not a perfect way to go, I know.

By all means, do things your way, because you need to be comfortable with your setup if you are going to be successful with it. My main real concern is the heat the HPS (of any wattage) will generate and the need to remove it from the tent, which is especially important with smaller tents, such as yours. A cool tube or some other sort of vented hood, as others have suggested, seems like a must. Heat in confined spaces is my sworn enemy.

And you're right not to bother with the "boost" or whatever that some ballasts offer, since this is like overclocking a CPU or running a car engine past redline. Yes, you can do it, and yes, the output will be increased, but so will the heat (perhaps with diminishing returns), while the life of the bulb will be decreased. I wouldn't worry about the extra 10% or whatever you're not getting in light output, since it is not free and you probably won't miss it. Running a dimmable 400W or 600W ballast at 250W with a 250W bulb would be an option that would provide that bit of upgradability you might want without over-doing it with your current tent - no downside versus a 250W ballast except purchase cost. Of course a regular 250W setup is a good tried and true option, perhaps mag rather than digital ballast if in an apartment or someone else's house, just in case. Getting into trouble with neighbors because of RF interference would really be a bummer.

Just my two cents, and you are on the right track and clearly know enough to work out and problems you might encounter along the way if you are able to recognize them early enough. After all, you have already found perhaps the most valuable resource available for this hobby right here - this site.