Triploids

[HydroRed]

So are you saying because you have a leafy whorlled bud you have extra chromosomes?? Sounds bs to me![/QUOTE]
It boils down to more than just the leaves. If you saw the stem or the actual bud growth on the plant I grew, your critique on my plant may change. I dont have pics of the stem, but it was square and about 4 times the size it should have been. It also took weeks longer to mature in flower and it was much taller (by about 30%) by the end of flower. There were more issues with the plant other than a few extra leaves.

 

[Kingrow1]

So are you saying because you have a leafy whorlled bud you have extra chromosomes?? Sounds bs to me!
It boils down to more than just the leaves. If you saw the stem or the actual bud growth on the plant I grew, your critique on my plant may change. I dont have pics of the stem, but it was square and about 4 times the size it should have been. It also took weeks longer to mature in flower and it was much taller (by about 30%) by the end of flower. There were more issues with the plant other than a few extra leaves.

Polyploidy dosent describe what you had, my critical comments were about every picture and how none of it was ploidy or genetic. Outside of marijuana forums this stuff is common and well known, your plant simply did somthing called fasciation, nothing to do with genetics or a trait thats breedable. Already reasons such as rna damage, abiotic stress, bugs and pathogens as well as fungi and bacteria have been cited as to plausable causes.

Now you can take the 'blame the breeder, bad genetics, its a mutant trait, polyploidy/triploid' answer or you can dismiss all that and wiki fasciation and polyploidy for some real answers.

This flower looks spookily like your bud...

 

[Dumme]

Now you know why I ditched the "marijuana plant problems" section.... I venture in once and awhile...
The same ol shit over and over again! NO ONE it seems, takes the time to learn ANYTHING about growing period (or they see some smack on the net and say, "well, this is how XYZ said to grow).........How about for an example DUMME's latest thread telling everyone that you treat MM like a Tomato and you'll grow perfect.......So many fucking misconceptions and outright BS on-line.

Or how about hydro "somebodies" thread on some dufus claiming 4 plants in an 8x12 and getting 22+ lbs at over 5 a plant with less then 30 day veg and about 4 ft tall.......I smile at the guy a few pages later who claimed a 3+ lb under a 600w.......

Sometimes you just have to laugh and move on.......Hell, I won't even answer CFL related questions anymore. You tell them why the result was low yield and fluffy and some fucknut HAS to come on and say how his CFL grows are perfect and he gets commercial yields from his plants...

Ranting now, so yeah, patience is King.

How about treat it like a simple tropical and do better then tomato growing.

But in the end Kingrow, we simply just have to be patient with them......There are places of peace and growing on the net.

Not sure how you got that out of anything I wrote...

While referring to pseudoscience, I said:

I was referencing how non-magical growing the plant is, not specifics methods. For instance, "flushing" (i.e. starving), is not require in the production of sweet ripe tomatoes, or pumpkins, or tobacco, or etc..

 

[Dr. Who]

Not sure how you got that out of anything I wrote...

While referring to pseudoscience, I said:

SORRY, maybe a bad example, in a way.

BUT, it does kinda make your point about not exactly great information....

Don't treat a MM plant like a tomato! That's my point.....Your saying that rather frustrated me as you get frustrated over pseudoscience........

Please don't take my comment as a put down.....NOT meant that way!

Again, just to clarify. Treat MJ like a common tropical......

One of my favorite lines to new growers who have come and say they didn't research anything about, nor have any knowledge in growing (House plants and Tropicals). "Get yourself a book on growing. READ it! When you can grow and bloom an African Violet - You'll have little trouble growing MJ!

To others that simplify it and say "It's just a weed"..... I think your deluding yourself! Sure it can grow in some poor conditions. BUT, if you buckle down and learn about tropicals and their needs. You'll have a serious leg up on the "weed" growers!
Next is to read QUALITY books on MM growing! You buy those at Barnes and Noble. NOT on the web by joe blow who charges $500 a book and makes impossible claims!

 

[Dumme]

SORRY, maybe a bad example, in a way.

BUT, it does kinda make your point about not exactly great information....

Don't treat a MM plant like a tomato! That's my point.....Your saying that rather frustrated me as you get frustrated over pseudoscience........

Please don't take my comment as a put down.....NOT meant that way!

Again, just to clarify. Treat MJ like a common tropical......

One of my favorite lines to new growers who have come and say they didn't research anything about, nor have any knowledge in growing (House plants and Tropicals). "Get yourself a book on growing. READ it! When you can grow and bloom an African Violet - You'll have little trouble growing MJ!

To others that simplify it and say "It's just a weed"..... I think your deluding yourself! Sure it can grow in some poor conditions. BUT, if you buckle down and learn about tropicals and their needs. You'll have a serious leg up on the "weed" growers!
Next is to read QUALITY books on MM growing! You buy those at Barnes and Noble. NOT on the web by joe blow who charges $500 a book and makes impossible claims!

I admit I'm a college drop out and a dumme, but I'm not a complete dunce.
If you read the whole thread, I was referencing basic photosynthesis and how the chloroplasts works. The tomato plant wasn't the main focus. Hell, I could have said, a sun flower.

Next time, please, just quote me, so people know how to interpret.

 

[chronicals77]

Im glad mine reverted back to normal, given that happen it cant be genetic or it wouldn't have reverted back and the trait would be clonable. I dont have any proof but id say a nematode may be the cause, could be a disease, or an insect lay an egg/s inside the seed while its in development. I dont think its stress related because most trileafs including my own have a wrinkled or mishapen leaf or two and this is the reason I believe its some kind of bug.

 

[Dr. Who]

Im glad mine reverted back to normal, given that happen it cant be genetic or it wouldn't have reverted back and the trait would be clonable. I dont have any proof but id say a nematode may be the cause, could be a disease, or an insect lay an egg/s inside the seed while its in development. I dont think its stress related because most trileafs including my own have a wrinkled or mishapen leaf or two and this is the reason I believe its some kind of bug.

I gotta ask. Where did you get this idea?
This happens in specific plant species, that are effected by specific insects, that have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years! Think Mexican jumping bean!

In North America there are around 4-5 that will lay on developing pods where the larvae in it's first stage will burrow through the pod and change to a second form of larvae that eats into the seed and those attack trees only. Mostly in the South West and mainly in mesquite!

There is another species of insect in North America that will effect only beans.....Not a big problem here and the Mexican jumping bean is an example.

The only others in our area on Earth would be a cpl that effect specific trees in Hawaii and Mexico to South America, and those only attack Tamarind trees.

Marijuana (any strain) does not have an insect that attacks it that way!!!

One shouldn't list conjecture as possible fact. You only start rumor!

 

[Dr. Who]

I admit I'm a college drop out and a dumme, but I'm not a complete dunce.
If you read the whole thread, I was referencing basic photosynthesis and how the chloroplasts works. The tomato plant wasn't the main focus. Hell, I could have said, a sun flower.

Next time, please, just quote me, so people know how to interpret.

You got your apology, need some cheese to go with the whine?

 

[Dumme]

You got your apology, need some cheese to go with the whine?

Relax man, have a smoke.

 

[Dr. Who]

Cool beans then Dumme (actually not in name reflection)

 

[Dumme]

I was married "once apon a nightmare", hence the name.

 

[chronicals77]

I gotta ask. Where did you get this idea?
This happens in specific plant species, that are effected by specific insects, that have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years! Think Mexican jumping bean!

In North America there are around 4-5 that will lay on developing pods where the larvae in it's first stage will burrow through the pod and change to a second form of larvae that eats into the seed and those attack trees only. Mostly in the South West and mainly in mesquite!

There is another species of insect in North America that will effect only beans.....Not a big problem here and the Mexican jumping bean is an example.

The only others in our area on Earth would be a cpl that effect specific trees in Hawaii and Mexico to South America, and those only attack Tamarind trees.

Marijuana (any strain) does not have an insect that attacks it that way!!!

One shouldn't list conjecture as possible fact. You only start rumor!

Im not talking about plant specific parasites. Some insects such as thripes lay thier eggs on or INTO leaves, buds, and other plant tissue. If an insect lays eggs into a leaf bud it can cause the new leaves to be irregular shapen. So if some kind of insect were to lay an egg into the seed tissue while its still soft and under developed once that seed germinates im sure it could cause abnormal groeth. If its not genetic thats the only thing that makes sense to me. Sinse no one here actually knows for sure what causes it, it definately is a possibility.

 

[Kingrow1]

Im not talking about plant specific parasites. Some insects such as thripes lay thier eggs on or INTO leaves, buds, and other plant tissue. If an insect lays eggs into a leaf bud it can cause the new leaves to be irregular shapen. So if some kind of insect were to lay an egg into the seed tissue while its still soft and under developed once that seed germinates im sure it could cause abnormal groeth. If its not genetic thats the only thing that makes sense to me. Sinse no one here actually knows for sure what causes it, it definately is a possibility.

Id say its not that you couldnt give reasons why it happens but that nailling down the exact reason is hard. In my case i was quite sure it was enviromental i.e. too much light heat and wind but i couldnt or wouldnt cite that just that it went away after a few changes.

Past all this just have a quick look at whos posting all these hermie, mutant, triploid threads.... mainly new or less experienced growers, the pics ive put on riu from when it happened to me were when i was less experienced and noobish. These statistics are hard to avoid, just today two more new growers asking about mutations on their plants.

Im sorry to say but the more you post here the more you realise that a lot of this is down to new growers not those who have done 30/40 grows in a row.

 

[chronicals77]

You see thats just it, people on here assume just because im new to this forum that im new to growing and that isn't true. Ive been growing plants of all kinds for 23 years including cannabis. Ive been a professional bonsai artist and cultivator for 7 years. To be able to deliberately stress plants and expect them to recover a person has to know a lot about plants. I dont know everything and I dont kbow all the science behind everything but I have a lot of experience growing and experience training plants to do what I want them to do. To be able to do this the plants have to be perfectly healthy because if you add more stress to an already stressed plant more than likely it will die. You cant always rely on science either, I have seen many wierd things that had no published information to refer to. I dont totally disreguard science but science is not always on point. I have experienced things that science says isnt possible. Its like coffee or eggs, onr day everyone should be consuming them, they next they are bad for you. Apple juice supposedly bad for you but its not the juice that contains toxins, its the seeds. So you see just because someone posts all these scientific publications ive learned over the years its not always acurate. Im NOT suggesting anyone disreguard science but I do suggest to not allow it to dictate every decision you make. Science is updated all the time. They only real thing that scientists have unquestionably proved 100% is that humans have barely scratched the surface of understanding this planet. Sometimes things happen that have no scientific or earthly explaination. This forum is also not just for the people that know everything to post all legitimate scientific fact. It is a place for all, new growers and beyond to not only learn but to discuss thier experiences. This is how people grow. Plants behave differently in different climates and situations and that is 100% a fact.

 

[Kingrow1]

You see thats just it, people on here assume just because im new to this forum that im new to growing and that isn't true. Ive been growing plants of all kinds for 23 years including cannabis. Ive been a professional bonsai artist and cultivator for 7 years. To be able to deliberately stress plants and expect them to recover a person has to know a lot about plants. I dont know everything and I dont kbow all the science behind everything but I have a lot of experience growing and experience training plants to do what I want them to do. To be able to do this the plants have to be perfectly healthy because if you add more stress to an already stressed plant more than likely it will die. You cant always rely on science either, I have seen many wierd things that had no published information to refer to. I dont totally disreguard science but science is not always on point. I have experienced things that science says isnt possible. Its like coffee or eggs, onr day everyone should be consuming them, they next they are bad for you. Apple juice supposedly bad for you but its not the juice that contains toxins, its the seeds. So you see just because someone posts all these scientific publications ive learned over the years its not always acurate. Im NOT suggesting anyone disreguard science but I do suggest to not allow it to dictate every decision you make. Science is updated all the time. They only real thing that scientists have unquestionably proved 100% is that humans have barely scratched the surface of understanding this planet. Sometimes things happen that have no scientific or earthly explaination. This forum is also not just for the people that know everything to post all legitimate scientific fact. It is a place for all, new growers and beyond to not only learn but to discuss thier experiences. This is how people grow. Plants behave differently in different climates and situations and that is 100% a fact.

Im the minority not the majority on this forum, my comments arent harsh, calling breeders work ploidy hermie mutant weak genetic crap is harsh on the other hand and also this is not really what you expect to hear on a forum for plants.

The info i have provided is freely available on wiki, you wont get much more low tech than that.

I feel like some are fending of mutants with a lightsabre or getting rapped by a three armed hermaphrodite from planet ploidy every ten pack of seeds sometimes, what can i say....

 

[chronicals77]

Im the minority not the majority on this forum, my comments arent harsh, calling breeders work ploidy hermie mutant weak genetic crap is harsh on the other hand and also this is not really what you expect to hear on a forum for plants.

The info i have provided is freely available on wiki, you wont get much more low tech than that.

I feel like some are fending of mutants with a lightsabre or getting rapped by a three armed hermaphrodite from planet ploidy every ten pack of seeds sometimes, what can i say....

I wasn't talking about you specifically.

With the sheer number of trileafs in small batches of seeds im still not ruling out the breeder being at fault. It still is a possibility. It can't be ruled out. I know I didnt do anything to cause it. Thats the first time I bought that strain from that breeder and that is also the first time i've ever in 23 years seen a trileaf and i've grown tons of bag seed and this stuff is popping up from breeders seeds so it has to be the result of something in the breeding process. All the cases ive seen from the net were also all fem seeds so it has to be a result of "something" by the breeder OR the process. I personally have never seen a trileaf from regular seeds. Maybe its something that just can happen from self pollinating females? Like I said before, im just glad mine reverted back BUT I also have to say just because one person's trileaf produced shit weed doesn't necessarily mean that all trileafs are crap. Its a 50/50 chance as I see it and that 50% chance of it being worthless or subpar I cannot afford to take. Had it not reverted back I would have to given it away or destroyed it.

 

[Dr. Who]

Im not talking about plant specific parasites. Some insects such as thripes lay thier eggs on or INTO leaves, buds, and other plant tissue. If an insect lays eggs into a leaf bud it can cause the new leaves to be irregular shapen. So if some kind of insect were to lay an egg into the seed tissue while its still soft and under developed once that seed germinates im sure it could cause abnormal groeth. If its not genetic thats the only thing that makes sense to me. Sinse no one here actually knows for sure what causes it, it definately is a possibility.

I'm sorry but, that's incorrect!
The seed would fail to mature for one thing.
The other would be that if the seed was damaged. It would not germinate.

Please don't come back and say "But if".
It's NOT a possibility!

 

[tonygreen]

Polyploidy dosent describe what you had, my critical comments were about every picture and how none of it was ploidy or genetic. Outside of marijuana forums this stuff is common and well known, your plant simply did somthing called fasciation, nothing to do with genetics or a trait thats breedable. Already reasons such as rna damage, abiotic stress, bugs and pathogens as well as fungi and bacteria have been cited as to plausable causes.

Now you can take the 'blame the breeder, bad genetics, its a mutant trait, polyploidy/triploid' answer or you can dismiss all that and wiki fasciation and polyploidy for some real answers.

This flower looks spookily like your bud...



View attachment 3747013

Spot on, mate.

 

[chronicals77]

I'm sorry but, that's incorrect!
The seed would fail to mature for one thing.
The other would be that if the seed was damaged. It would not germinate.

Please don't come back and say "But if".
It's NOT a possibility!

None of that is necessarily true, thrips lay eggs in undeveloped leaf buds and they still grow they just grow weird.

So if you know everything that doesn't cause trileafs then you must know what DOES cause it?

 

[Dr. Who]

None of that is necessarily true, thrips lay eggs in undeveloped leaf buds and they still grow they just grow weird.

So if you know everything that doesn't cause trileafs then you must know what DOES cause it?

leaf buds - I'm talking seeds.

Who really cares? Most likely a genetic abnormality. Or most likely you stressed the poor thing and it's got to get OUT of stress before throwing more then 3 leaves.......Very common problem seen here!

Have you breed anything with this problem and did it carry over? I mean if the bud was dank, why not if so inclined!

Ever seen clockwork orange? The "dick in the dirt strength" pheno starts out all crinkly leafed and looks flat out deformed! As she grows, she looses that almost completely. That's how you know you have the real head busting strength pheno. Damn things have some thick ass seed hulls. You have to scuff the seam edge's rather hard to get them to pop!