Light ???

kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Ah I see... I know some flower greenhouses here in NL do use UV to intensify colors and others to reduce pesticide (I think it was UVC against botrytis/budrot) and that use of UV is referenced in led studies but haven't see those or other uv leds specified yet, I think it's still tubes in practice.

I think investing in UVB instead of UVA (hardens plants basically) can be much more effective in terms of results, final product.

Another good article:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/opph.201400048/asset/34_ftp.pdf

It is specifically low levels of UVB that can change and increase production of secondary metabolites, which include cannabinoids, flavonoids and terpenes. In a study of the uni of Wageningen they suggest the increase in secondary metabolites can be useful for growing "herbs".

Introduction to secondary metabolites in cannabis:
https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/13206/01.pdf

Too high levels can have the opposite effect so I think starting with that 12-15 uvb on 3x3 is not a bad idea. Maybe even put it on a separate timer, or pulses...
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Thanks for the links. I'm going to have to go over all of this before i can intelligently respond lol. But I think I get the gist of it. I think I'll also look into summer daylight cycles in regards to uv intensity/time of day/etc.

Am I misunderstanding that while small amounts of uvb are beneficial and harden the plant, going overboard by a small margin causes more detrimental effects and reduces the benefits it does provide. So it's better to be low than high when adding uv spectra, and it doesn't seem to take much at all in a small environment to give all the perks uv in general is able to anyway.


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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Doogan said:
Experimenting with different light sources in veg and bloom. From T5 to DE.

T5-During Veg, like many other growers, T5 lighting works great and can have slightly varied colors, (Blue/Red). Efficient and cheap. During bloom the T5 was fully capable go producing decent buds. The problem that was noticed was the buds were smaller overall and if the light was not positioned properly the plants would stretch causing other issues and deficiencies.

MH-IMO they are more than necessary for veg growth. Using a hood and ballast for each MH light can be cumbersome whereas the T5 lighting fixtures almost all have the ballast built into the unit. Using a MH 600W in bloom as a supplementary light to 600W HPS did not do enough to warrant another run with MH.

MH/DE-Currently on the first test run of MHDE in Veg. 1000W AD/DE MH. 6' spread. Light is much more intense than any T5 or standard/CMH. Using on larger plants in a "pre-flower" set-up. Kevin Jodrey has talked about using high intensity lighting during vegetative growth for many reasons. Wether it is a DEMH, iGrow, induction, LEP... he says that the high intensity, full spectra, vegetative light allows the plants to built up the epidural, chloroplast layers and duraplasts. This helps with genetic drift and the overall vigor of the plant. The UVb light is essential to keep the plant at full vigor. Nothing can beat natural sunlight.

LED- Currently running in Vegetative growth from seed to pre-flower. In the past used for Bloom. Kind L300, full. Worked as well as T5 in bloom but with better turpines. Using it now for veg growth for first full experimental run.

Standard/HPS- Have run 400W and 600W in vertical and top light systems. 600W was used in vert and produced large volumes and works well for limited plant numbers and to maximize your yield per plant. "Top light" with OG vert reflector 600W produced excellent results. Great for smaller rooms.

DE HPS- By far the best used so far. All around higher yields, smells, flavor, resin... Used both ACDE and DE with 1000W. Both work great. Each has its pros and cons. The BOSS hoods are not air cooled and have a lower anchor point for shorter rooms (4" or so). With good A/C the room won't get that hot without AC hood. They also come without the glass, which by some standards can help with about 10% increase light intensity ~. Subsystem ACDE has a taller anchor point since the electrical input is on top. They are AC so heat intensity is reduced. A 3 foot distance is recommended but with some strains it can be too intense.
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I got an experiment for you; match watts between your DE HPS setup and a top quality COB LED array and watch your favorite light get stomped in quality and yield.

I did and even my fuck ups are amazing, lol Seriously.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
kmog33 said:
Am I misunderstanding that while small amounts of uvb are beneficial and harden the plant, going overboard by a small margin causes more detrimental effects and reduces the benefits it does provide.
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Some amount of uvb can have benefits for cannabinoid and terpene production.
Some amount of uva can harden the plant (and several other effects varying per plant species.

But yes, in both cases, uva and uvb, overdoing it will have the very opposite and detrimental effects. You can litterally kill the plants if you over do it.

"Low levels of UV-B exposure initiate signaling through UVR8 and induce secondary metabolite genes involved in protection against UV while higher dosages are very detrimental to plants."
From UV-Induced Cell Death in Plants:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3565337/

The emphasis is always on "low" level can help. You push it a little to protect itself better (which is what the trichs partly do), bring out the best phenotype, without taking it to a point where it would actually need or fail to protect itself. Basically signal it with just enough.
 
kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Some amount of uvb can have benefits for cannabinoid and terpene production.
Some amount of uva can harden the plant (and several other effects varying per plant species.

But yes, in both cases, uva and uvb, overdoing it will have the very opposite and detrimental effects. You can litterally kill the plants if you over do it.

"Low levels of UV-B exposure initiate signaling through UVR8 and induce secondary metabolite genes involved in protection against UV while higher dosages are very detrimental to plants."
From UV-Induced Cell Death in Plants:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3565337/

The emphasis is always on "low" level can help. You push it a little to protect itself better (which is what the trichs partly do), bring out the best phenotype, without taking it to a point where it would actually need or fail to protect itself. Basically signal it with just enough.
Click to expand...
Thanks. [emoji1303]


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Slab

Slab

Well-Known Member
Slipup420 said:
Hey did you know if you smoke crack and blow it on plants the plants metabolic rate increaes 1000 percent ??? i could show you a 2 week seedling that looks like 2 months old ....
As i get crack heads coming over and blowing on plants
Not only that THC levels increases 400 percent ,,, So i guess my new strain Super Ga Ga
is a Centurion cross of a Synthetic x hybrid cross crack cocaine x ??

Does this make sense to you ?

Would like to see scientific Data from you research ?? Does elevation cause anything , Do yuo have to pour the boiling water on north side or south side of the plant ??
West or maybe east side..
Now i have read some pretty fucked up things on what people do but boiling water tops it all Geez
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If it works and it's stupid, it's not stupid anymore.
 
Doogan

Doogan

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I got an experiment for you; match watts between your DE HPS setup and a top quality COB LED array and watch your favorite light get stomped in quality and yield.

I did and even my fuck ups are amazing, lol Seriously.
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Ya I would like to try using some COB lights for a run. They are actually not to much more expensive than a hood/ballast/bulb HPSDE. I will have to look into it more. Any recommendations? Heat issues, life span...Thanks!
 
Slipup420

Slipup420

Member
Sativied said:
Some amount of uvb can have benefits for cannabinoid and terpene production.
Some amount of uva can harden the plant (and several other effects varying per plant species.

But yes, in both cases, uva and uvb, overdoing it will have the very opposite and detrimental effects. You can litterally kill the plants if you over do it.

"Low levels of UV-B exposure initiate signaling through UVR8 and induce secondary metabolite genes involved in protection against UV while higher dosages are very detrimental to plants."
From UV-Induced Cell Death in Plants:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3565337/

The emphasis is always on "low" level can help. You push it a little to protect itself better (which is what the trichs partly do), bring out the best phenotype, without taking it to a point where it would actually need or fail to protect itself. Basically signal it with just enough.
Click to expand...
Or don't even bother with it for the little percentage of increase, If any.?????
In the grand scheme of things
 
Slab

Slab

Well-Known Member
has anyone smoked killer only to find out it was grown with 40 watt Fluro shop lights?

Like to see some fancy graphs explaining that one
 
Slab

Slab

Well-Known Member
The root zone temps were mentioned earlier in the thread.

Does that have any effect on the oxygen available in the water that's in the soil?
 
Slipup420

Slipup420

Member
Slab you got to make sure that when watering your plants either ice cold water or boiling water for the best flavor lol
 
Slab

Slab

Well-Known Member
Slipup420 said:
Slab you got to make sure that when watering your plants either ice cold water or boiling water for the best flavor lol
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I am not off the fence in regards to it being a finishing method ( boiling water) and that can and as reported does effect curing process.
 
kmog33

kmog33

Well-Known Member
Slab said:
The root zone temps were mentioned earlier in the thread.

Does that have any effect on the oxygen available in the water that's in the soil?
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Yes in the water, not in the soil. If you were in dwc there would be a bigger effect, by in soil there is generally enough oxygen in the air. Lol. High Roots temps will cause problems that don't have to do with the amount of oxygen available in your water/available to be absorbed by your roots at all, much more so than effecting the amount of oxygen in the water itself.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Slipup420 said:
Or don't even bother with it for the little percentage of increase, If any.?????
In the grand scheme of things
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The main "bother" is the cost of the leds at the moment, so far the uvb leds I found are very expensive. Once you can do it for a few hundred bucks and use it for many years it becomes a more reasonable option.

As for little percentage, for example, Kite high (rip) posted some test results in these forums once showing a 2% high thc level. That may seem like a small percentage but that percentage is of the total bud, not of the amount of thc. Going from 20% to 22% thc is a 10% increase in total amounts of thc, which is not so little anymore, especially if you're into rosin/bho/hash. I agree the majority of growers should not bother with it, not yet anyway, but opposed to for example expensive boosters and other snake oils it is a lot more realistic to try. And for commercial growers who need to have their shit tested before selling to a shop or dispensary it may give them an edge.
 
Slab

Slab

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply, not a concern for me having root zone to hot. Room never goes above 85.

More interested in enrichment and knowing if the roots absorb oxygen from the water in soil. Pretty sure it does.

Wanted to add 65 degrees replicates outdoor subterranean root zone temps,
We call it hells ice box :)
 
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