Water in Flint and other general problems in our political environ

since1991

Well-Known Member
What city and state officials dont understand is the people that are left here are to broke to move out. You cant bleed a rock with outrageous water fees. There is no working class manufacturing base here anymore. The city and state coffers are empty. And its happening all over this country really. I always believed so goes Flint so goes America. You cant sustain this whole gig by being a service economy with shitty slave wages. A country has to make stuff. It all goes back to population really. Not enough to go around. It doesnt help that the house dealer (the rich) just keeps taking and taking.
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
It isn't just deny it. You still get billed for the water you can't use - not even to bath with! MINIMUM Flint water bill $140.95 Highest surrounding town water bill (CBS news report) $70.16!

Now how the FUCK can you have the BALLS to bill people for the poison your killing them with? Welcome to Michigan, home of the 4th Reich republican concentration camp!
Lots of unsubstantiated hyperbole in this thread. I just read 2 timelines, both from liberal sources and it looks to me the the Governor acted and reacted appropriately.
You up in arms because Hillary and Bernie told you to be. Sheep indeed.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
You can read what you want. From whatever source. I was just at City Hall. Early this morning. The governor is reacting now....hell yes he is. If you knew what really went on here for months you wouldnt think so.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
That's why I have a Heat Pump. No worries of fuel delivery, no combustion, no smells of oil, low cost.

B4L
I'm installing a water chiller with hot gas recovery, or what people might otherwise call a dual circuit heat pump. I plan to use my 'waste heat' for home heating, domestic hot water (on a separate circuit), dehumidification and even heating my garage, thawing circuit under my driveway, hot tub maintenance heat, etc, etc.

That's MY heat! I've already paid for it once, why throw it away?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Oh yes. Lawsuits are rolling in. They raised the water rates to astronomical levels just a couple years ago. About the time they made the switch to the Flint River. Used to be like 40-50$ a couple of months. Never a big deal. Landlords used to include it with the rent. Not anymore. And if you start renting a house and want water turned on in your name? 400$ deposit connect fee. Thats when people started bitching. Then the brown swampy tasting water started to flow. Then that snowballed. Now the lead. Its all pretty messed up. They raised the rates to pay for an old lawsuit settlement this one time jack ass mayor got into years ago. They passed it off on the water customers. Pissed alot of people off. Were pretty broke here as it is. Didnt help the Detroits broke ass kept raising the bill on Flint. That pipeline is the farthest north it goes. Everyone is piss poor here. Everyone scrambling to do whatever to get by. Including city and state officials. Every since the automakers pulled the plug on this state its been crazy. Flint was the model city every other city tried to aspire to for decades. Especially after ww2. This town was flowing with cash. I remeber back when i was a kid in the seventies and eighties when some Union in some corner of the country went on strike the whole nation stood up in solidarity. It was all on the news and shit. Us working class folks had the power to shut these fat cat rich fucks down. I see a direct correlation between the decline of organized labor and the state of working class people now. And iam not buying that whole manufacturing is so automated now that they dont need workers. Bullshit. It has made an impact but not as much as they would like you to believe. Every since Reagan took office and especially since NAFTA working people everyehere have been getting screwed. Something needs to happen. And it can only come from us standing up and saying ENOUGH. Its too bad you got alot of fox news watching brainwashed idiots who believe in that free market everyman is his own individual less regualtion trickle down crap.
FEEL THE BERN. SANDERS IN '16, FOR workers, not against a living wage!
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Iam not doing your homework for you. Iam not here to convert you to communism either. I have no political affiliations to no one or nothing. If
you really have serious questions about my towns water supply and how the governor reacted, when he knew, what he and city and state officials (not to mention the mcclaren hospital coverup of the legionella disease outbreak that is more than likely due to the lead contamination) did not to disclose to the public you need to go deeper than your little rabbit hole.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
But the thing is....your not serious. Your a fox news junkie that thinks everything is a god damn liberal conspiracy. These commie lazy entitlement driven good for nothings in Flint have no rite to demand legal action against Snyder huh? Well damn all that. There are still babies with lead poisoning man. Could happen to your kids or family members. If you want to know what really is going on and receive unbiased information on the matter then go for it. I feel sorry for you. You see the world in polarities....in dualism. Us against them. How are you going to bring a Nation together with that crawling through your brain?
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
Iam not doing your homework for you. Iam not here to convert you to communism either. I have no political affiliations to no one or nothing. If
you really have serious questions about my towns water supply and how the governor reacted, when he knew, what he and city and state officials (not to mention the mcclaren hospital coverup of the legionella disease outbreak that is more than likely due to the lead contamination) did not to disclose to the public you need to go deeper than your little rabbit hole.
But the thing is....your not serious. Your a fox news junkie that thinks everything is a god damn liberal conspiracy. These commie lazy entitlement driven good for nothings in Flint have no rite to demand legal action against Snyder huh? Well damn all that. There are still babies with lead poisoning man. Could happen to your kids or family members. If you want to know what really is going on and receive unbiased information on the matter then go for it. I feel sorry for you. You see the world in polarities....in dualism. Us against them. How are you going to bring a Nation together with that crawling through your brain?
First, w
But the thing is....your not serious. Your a fox news junkie that thinks everything is a god damn liberal conspiracy. These commie lazy entitlement driven good for nothings in Flint have no rite to demand legal action against Snyder huh? Well damn all that. There are still babies with lead poisoning man. Could happen to your kids or family members. If you want to know what really is going on and receive unbiased information on the matter then go for it. I feel sorry for you. You see the world in polarities....in dualism. Us against them. How are you going to bring a Nation together with that crawling through your brain?
First, who the fuck are you to create a straw man and put my face on it. I asked a simple question and neither you, the professional back-patter or the OP have been able to add any clarity. Here is some for you ...

SEPT. 24: A group of doctors led by Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha of Hurley Medical Center urges Flint to stop using the Flint River for water after finding high levels of lead in the blood of children. State regulators insist the water is safe.

SEPT. 29: Gov. Rick Snyder pledges to take action in response to the lead levels. It's the first acknowledgment by the state that lead is a problem.

OCT. 2: Snyder announces that the state will spend $1 million to buy water filters and test water in Flint public schools.

OCT. 8: Snyder calls for Flint to go back to using water from Detroit's system again.

OCT. 15: The Michigan Legislature and Snyder approve nearly $9.4 million in aid to Flint, including $6 million to help switch its drinking water back to Detroit. The legislation also includes money for water filters, inspections and lab testing.

NOV. 3: Voters elect newcomer Karen Weaver over incumbent Mayor Dayne Walling amid fallout over the drinking water.

DEC. 29: Snyder accepts the resignation of Department of Environmental Quality Director Dan Wyant and apologizes for what occurred in Flint.

JAN. 5, 2016: Snyder declares a state of emergency in Flint, the same day federal officials confirm that they are investigating.

JAN. 12: Snyder activates the Michigan National Guard to help distribute bottled water and filters in Flint and asks the federal government for help.

JAN. 13: Michigan health officials report an increase in Legionnaires' disease cases during periods over the past two years in the county that includes Flint.

JAN. 14: Snyder asks the administration of President Barack Obama for major disaster declaration and more federal aid.

JAN. 16: Obama signs an emergency declaration and orders federal aid for Flint, authorizing the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Department of Homeland Security to coordinate relief efforts, but denies the request for a disaster declaration.

JAN. 17: During a Democratic debate, presidential candidate Hillary Clintoncriticizes Snyder for his handling of the water emergency and her rival, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, notes his call for Snyder's resignation. Snyder responds the next day that politicizing the issue doesn't help.

JAN. 19: Snyder devotes most of his annual State of the State speech to the emergency. He pledges to take steps to resolve the crisis.

JAN. 20: Snyder asks Obama to reconsider his denial of a federal disaster declaration. The governor also releases more than 270 pages of emails about the Flint water crisis that show debate over who is to blame and offer insight into the state's response.
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="bravedave, post: 12275705]

JAN. 20: Snyder asks Obama to reconsider his denial of a federal disaster declaration. The governor also releases more than 270 pages of emails about the Flint water crisis that show debate over who is to blame and offer insight into the state's response.[/QUOTE]

Note, did not wipe computer hard disks.
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
Alot more than that son.....try again.
Whatever kid, so you have nothing. ..so what and when did Obama know? Why is he denying disaster area backing? Doesn't he care about Flint? Does this denied funding also deny helping with the health issues.

Whole thing sounds to be a bureaucracy problem not a governor problem. The actions of the governor prior to the lead discovery was seemingly just as competent and more than appropriate given the information supplied. He was obviously looking for solutions. Let me know if you want that timeline.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Whatever kid, so you have nothing. ..so what and when did Obama know? Why is he denying disaster area backing? Doesn't he care about Flint? Does this denied funding also deny helping with the health issues.

Whole thing sounds to be a bureaucracy problem not a governor problem. The actions of the governor prior to the lead discovery was seemingly just as competent and more than appropriate given the information supplied. He was obviously looking for solutions. Let me know if you want that timeline.
Your string of denials and lazy questions all are great examples of what's wrong with right wingers. I don't call them conservatives any more because you guys are about as radical as anybody can be.

In any case, do you recall what Truman kept on his desk? It said "the buck stops here". But he was a Democrat. Snyder should on your recommendation have "the buck passes here".

If you want, here is a good read:
DEQ: Flint water fix should have come by 2014
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/21/deq-director-flint/79145696/

Ok, so I'm not going to spoon feed you any more links that you won't read. But I will recap what I've found with relatively little effort in a few hours of digging around on the internet. In 2011, when the first conversations were had regarding using Flint water, a report commissioned by Flint public works recommended treating the water with phosphates. For water treatment professionals, the reason for using phosphates is clear, it was necessary because river water is tends to be more corrosive than lake water. When, in 2013, the then emergency manager for Flint ordered the use of Flint river water, no treatment of the water with phosphate was included. The plan was approved by the Michigan DEQ. The man in charge of MDEQ was the governors man. In April 2014, Flint started using water from the Flint River. The following is a timeline from that point:

August and September 2014
City officials issue boil-water advisories after coliform bacteria are detected in tap water.

October 2014
The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality blames cold weather, aging pipes and a population decline.

“The city has taken operational steps to limit the potential for a boil-water advisory to re-occur.”
Stephen Busch, a district supervisor for the state’s Department of Environmental Quality

October 2014
A General Motors plant in Flint stops using municipal water, saying it corrodes car parts.

January 2015
Detroit’s water system offers to reconnect to Flint, waiving a $4 million connection fee. Three weeks later, Flint’s state-appointed emergency manager, Jerry Ambrose, declines the offer.

February 2015
In a memo for the governor, officials play down problems and say that the water is not an imminent “threat to public health.”

“It’s clear the nature of the threat was communicated poorly. It’s also clear that folks in Flint are concerned about other aspects of their water — taste, smell and color being among the top complaints.”
Memo for the governor

Feb. 18, 2015
104 parts per billion of lead are detected in drinking water at the home of Lee Anne Walters. Ms. Walters notifies the Environmental Protection Agency. Even small amounts of lead can cause lasting health and developmental problems in children. The E.P.A. does not require action until levels reach 15 parts per billion, but public health scientists say there is no safe level for lead in water.

The tale of woe goes on. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/21/us/flint-lead-water-timeline.html?_r=0
 
Last edited:

bravedave

Well-Known Member
Your string of denials and lazy questions all are great examples of what's wrong with right wingers. I don't call them conservatives any more because you guys are about as radical as anybody can be.

In any case, do you recall what Truman kept on his desk? It said "the buck stops here". But he was a Democrat. Snyder should on your recommendation have "the buck passes here".

If you want, here is a good read:
DEQ: Flint water fix should have come by 2014
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/21/deq-director-flint/79145696/

Ok, so I'm not going to spoon feed you any more links that you won't read. But I will recap what I've found with relatively little effort in a few hours of digging around on the internet. In 2011, when the first conversations were had regarding using Flint water, a report commissioned by Flint public works recommended treating the water with phosphates. For water treatment professionals, the reason for using phosphates is clear, it was necessary because river water is tends to be more corrosive than lake water. When, in 2013, the then emergency manager for Flint ordered the use of Flint river water, no treatment of the water with phosphate was included. The plan was approved by the Michigan DEQ. The man in charge of MDEQ was the governors man. In April 2014, Flint started using water from the Flint River. The following is a timeline from that point:

August and September 2014
City officials issue boil-water advisories after coliform bacteria are detected in tap water.

October 2014
The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality blames cold weather, aging pipes and a population decline.

“The city has taken operational steps to limit the potential for a boil-water advisory to re-occur.”
Stephen Busch, a district supervisor for the state’s Department of Environmental Quality

October 2014
A General Motors plant in Flint stops using municipal water, saying it corrodes car parts.

January 2015
Detroit’s water system offers to reconnect to Flint, waiving a $4 million connection fee. Three weeks later, Flint’s state-appointed emergency manager, Jerry Ambrose, declines the offer.

February 2015
In a memo for the governor, officials play down problems and say that the water is not an imminent “threat to public health.”

“It’s clear the nature of the threat was communicated poorly. It’s also clear that folks in Flint are concerned about other aspects of their water — taste, smell and color being among the top complaints.”
Memo for the governor

Feb. 18, 2015
104 parts per billion of lead are detected in drinking water at the home of Lee Anne Walters. Ms. Walters notifies the Environmental Protection Agency. Even small amounts of lead can cause lasting health and developmental problems in children. The E.P.A. does not require action until levels reach 15 parts per billion, but public health scientists say there is no safe level for lead in water.

The tale of woe goes on. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/21/us/flint-lead-water-timeline.html?_r=0
That timeline is virtually identical to what I already provided. That which you bolded also provides nothing over and above what was provided. The story is almost as sad and horrific as your attempt and ability (so far? :). ) to tie it to Snyder. Again all the way it seems he reacted appropriately to the information he was provided. Sounds to me that the approriate head already rolled. The Flint mayor who was ousted belonged to what party, btw? Another "governor's man"? So there is no smoking gun but you opportunists are weakly trying to throw the hangman's noose over just as of weak of a branch. Having recently read McCullough's 1000 page tome on Harry S, I can tell you that
Truman would have handled the situation similarly. Seem to me, your timeline shows that Snyder consistantly provided the "bucks" when informed they were needed.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
That timeline is virtually identical to what I already provided. That which you bolded also provides nothing over and above what was provided. The story is almost as sad and horrific as your attempt and ability (so far? :). ) to tie it to Snyder. Again all the way it seems he reacted appropriately to the information he was provided. Sounds to me that the approriate head already rolled. The Flint mayor who was ousted belonged to what party, btw? Another "governor's man"? So there is no smoking gun but you opportunists are weakly trying to throw the hangman's noose over just as of weak of a branch. Having recently read McCullough's 1000 page tome on Harry S, I can tell you that
Truman would have handled the situation similarly. Seem to me, your timeline shows that Snyder consistantly provided the "bucks" when informed they were needed.
my goodness, where to start. Your timeline begins Sept 2015. I started in 2011 and provided things that occurred up to the beginning of 2015. How in the world you got to where we presented the same data is unimaginable. Except maybe yours looks the same, which is exactly the point. These guys had information that Flint water was corrosive and needed treatment before hooking up the river to the city supply. They knew there were issues with the water by early 2014 and prevaricated throughout until the US DEQ stepped in and made it clear to Snyder that they were going to take the situation over. Then he acted.

I don't care if it was a Democrat or a Republican in office. The governor knew about issues with Flint water well before that memo in early 2015. He wasn't deaf. He didn't take any action until the end of 2015. He should be gone. Again not because he's a Republican but because he's an inept administrator.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
my goodness, where to start. Your timeline begins Sept 2015. I started in 2011 and provided things that occurred up to the beginning of 2015. How in the world you got to where we presented the same data is unimaginable. Except maybe yours looks the same, which is exactly the point. These guys had information that Flint water was corrosive and needed treatment before hooking up the river to the city supply. They there were issues with the water by early 2014 and prevaricated throughout until the US DEQ stepped in and made it clear to Snyder that they were going to take the situation over. Then he acted.

I don't care if it was a Democrat or a Republican in office. The governor knew about issues with Flint water well before that memo in early 2015. He wasn't deaf. He didn't take any action until the end of 2015. He should be gone. Again not because he's a Republican but because he's an inept administrator.
Saving money at the risk of people's lives isn't just inept. It's criminal negligence and he needs to be arrested, charged and JAILED. That's the only way to send a clear message to other idiots just like him.
 
Top