Dyna-Gro Experiment

weedemart

weedemart

Well-Known Member
@DirtyMcCurdy I dont think the cause was your flooding tweaks, IMO. I think you're first thinking was good. you have a deficiancy. DG grow dont supply much K true but i think the def here is Mg. DG grow contain a high percent of ammonical nitrogen, you were feeding at low EC while you boosted your calcium level mean you create the perfect conditions to increase the deficiency.calcium and ammonical nitrogen are antagonist to magnesium and dg grow dont supply lot of mg , as you know. drop the calmag and it should fix the def quickly.

In my experience , dg is one of the most complete nutes and you dont need to add anything except maybe some potassium in flower (ie ; silicate potassium and potassium sulfate)and is best used with soft water or RO. The only cons of DG ,IMO, is the high percent of ammonical nitrogen... ;(
 
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DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
weedemart said:
@DirtyMcCurdy I dont think the cause was your flooding tweaks, IMO. I think you're first thinking was good. you have a deficiancy. DG grow dont supply much K true but i think the def here is Mg. DG grow contain a high percent of ammonical nitrogen, you were feeding at low EC while you boosted your calcium level mean you create the perfect conditions to increase the deficiency.calcium and ammonical nitrogen are antagonist to magnesium and dg grow dont supply lot of mg , as you know. drop the calmag and it should fix the def quickly.

In my experience , dg is one of the most complete nutes and you dont need to add anything except maybe some potassium in flower (ie ; silicate potassium and potassium sulfate)and is best used with soft water or RO. The only cons of DG ,IMO, is the high percent of ammonical nitrogen... ;(
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You might be right. I know the damage doesn't get better but there still seems to be a very slight progression of the symptoms. Temps are 70-80F all the time, plenty of airflow, and closely monitoring the moisture level in the coco/pots more than I've ever had to do before so I know something else is going on. I have 1 white widow plant in the middle of the table surrounded by plants of unknown genetics(bag seeds) and it is obviously underfed at the rate I'm feeding the other plants. Pale leaves that get worse as you go down the plant. Bottom leaves are starting to die and fall off. But it also suffers from the same problem as all the others. This is why heat stress made/makes sense, or thought it did, idk.
I'm @ 1/2tsp (2.5ml)per gallon with the dyna-gro and because of this little problem, and advice from others who've used DG, I've been hesitant to increase the dosage. I am going to have to hand feed the plants from here on out to save the widow. I may try increasing the dosage on all of them first... maybe 4ml per gal? or 5ml per gal? I recently cut the calmag trying to eliminate/or discover possible causes or indicators.
 
guerrilla medic

guerrilla medic

Well-Known Member
the plants that i'm feeding dyna-gro to are getting 4ml in veg and 5ml in flower. i'm a relative noob to using it, but those levels seem to be working great for me. are you feeding everyday dirty? one little trick in coco that i picked up from a forum and can vouch for is: once the roots are established don't let the pots dry out anymore. feed every day or even multiple times a day. those plants pictured are in coco weedmart and thanks brother.
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
guerrilla medic said:
the plants that i'm feeding dyna-gro to are getting 4ml in veg and 5ml in flower. i'm a relative noob to using it, but those levels seem to be working great for me. are you feeding everyday dirty? one little trick in coco that i picked up from a forum and can vouch for is: once the roots are established don't let the pots dry out anymore. feed every day or even multiple times a day. those plants pictured are in coco weedmart and thanks brother.
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Yeah, feeding every day. My problem is probably mostly environmental, not completely dialed in yet. I push 'em a little hard probably... 80F and probably more than enough light. I keep humidity up a bit to compensate for higher temps and because running a de-hue adds more heat, which I can't do anything about at the moment. Still 80F isn't that warm but I need to upgrade ac and the de-hue.
However, I think a little of it is a combination of environmental issues compounded slightly by nutrient issues. Slightly underfed, which I was worried about from the start, and maybe a little too much P in the ratio. I will try using Foliage Pro instead of the grow on future grows. A little too much P and maybe lacking a little sulfur can both lead to burnt tips and too much P can also lead to other deficiencies.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
Yeah, feeding every day. My problem is probably mostly environmental, not completely dialed in yet. I push 'em a little hard probably... 80F and probably more than enough light. I keep humidity up a bit to compensate for higher temps and because running a de-hue adds more heat, which I can't do anything about at the moment. Still 80F isn't that warm but I need to upgrade ac and the de-hue.
However, I think a little of it is a combination of environmental issues compounded slightly by nutrient issues. Slightly underfed, which I was worried about from the start, and maybe a little too much P in the ratio. I will try using Foliage Pro instead of the grow on future grows. A little too much P and maybe lacking a little sulfur can both lead to burnt tips and too much P can also lead to other deficiencies.
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The 7-9-5 Grow formula wont cause any issues if used correctly in an adequate indoor environment.
 
weedemart

weedemart

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
Yeah, feeding every day. My problem is probably mostly environmental, not completely dialed in yet. I push 'em a little hard probably... 80F and probably more than enough light. I keep humidity up a bit to compensate for higher temps and because running a de-hue adds more heat, which I can't do anything about at the moment. Still 80F isn't that warm but I need to upgrade ac and the de-hue.
However, I think a little of it is a combination of environmental issues compounded slightly by nutrient issues. Slightly underfed, which I was worried about from the start, and maybe a little too much P in the ratio. I will try using Foliage Pro instead of the grow on future grows. A little too much P and maybe lacking a little sulfur can both lead to burnt tips and too much P can also lead to other deficiencies.
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dg grow not your isssue, once you cut the calmag i think you solved it. the damage is done tho... it wont recover but if your new growth is healthy it means your plants are fines.Your issue IMO ; theres too much ammonical nitrogen.

the only advantage of FP is slightly lower ammonical nitrogen(NH4), but IMO, its still too high.


the source of nitrogen is very important because nh4 compete with lot of elements and his uptake is much more complex than nitrate.That why I'm not a DG fans.Theres more cons than benefit with nh4

In short,'' the conversion of nitrates to amino acids occurs in the leaf. This process is fuelled by solar energy, which makes it an energy-efficient process. Ammonium has to be converted into organic N compounds in the roots. This process is fuelled by carbohydrates, which are at the expense of other plant life processes, such as plant growth and fruit fill.'' source : http://www.kno3.org/product-features-a-benefits/nitrate-no3-versus-ammonium-nh4

100% nitrate based fert are not optimal because the ph will constantly rise... once you add some nh4 , the ph stay stable because the plants regulate his ph. The optimal is a balanced mix of no3/nh4 to keep your ph stable while having a low ammonical nitrogen content. 80-20 seem to be the optimal ratio in veg while 90-10 seem optimal in flo.

PS: When using a fert with high NH4 percent, theres few things to care about. -root zone should aways be ''warm'' atleast 20 C to ensure nitrification. Cold temp will reduce nitrification and nH4 might start to accumulate and create toxicity.

-if your using an inert media , you might need to use carbonate and buffers to stay in the ph range.

-Some microbial product might help you deal with excess of NH4.Fulvic and humic for example.




hope it helps.
 
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DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
hope it helps.[/QUOTE]

weedemart said:
dg grow not your isssue, once you cut the calmag i think you solved it. the damage is done tho... it wont recover but if your new growth is healthy it means your plants are fines.Your issue IMO ; theres too much ammonical nitrogen.

the only advantage of FP is slightly lower ammonical nitrogen(NH4), but IMO, its still too high.


the source of nitrogen is very important because nh4 compete with lot of elements and his uptake is much more complex than nitrate.That why I'm not a DG fans.Theres more cons than benefit with nh4

In short,'' the conversion of nitrates to amino acids occurs in the leaf. This process is fuelled by solar energy, which makes it an energy-efficient process. Ammonium has to be converted into organic N compounds in the roots. This process is fuelled by carbohydrates, which are at the expense of other plant life processes, such as plant growth and fruit fill.'' source : http://www.kno3.org/product-features-a-benefits/nitrate-no3-versus-ammonium-nh4

100% nitrate based fert are not optimal because the ph will constantly rise... once you add some nh4 , the ph stay stable because the plants regulate his ph. The optimal is a balanced mix of no3/nh4 to keep your ph stable while having a low ammonical nitrogen content. 80-20 seem to be the optimal ratio in veg while 90-10 seem optimal in flo.

PS: When using a fert with high NH4 percent, theres few things to care about. -root zone should aways be ''warm'' atleast 20 C to ensure nitrification. Cold temp will reduce nitrification and nH4 might start to accumulate and create toxicity.

-if your using an inert media , you might need to use carbonate and buffers to stay in the ph range.

-Some microbial product might help you deal with excess of NH4.Fulvic and humic for example.
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The differences between ammoniacal and nitrate nitrogen is something I have reasearched in the past and I agree with you about ammoniacal nitrogen not being an ideal source of nitrogen.
I am using coco with no beneficials but the medium temps are plenty high enough. I used to add humic but the research I've read about it basically shows that it just slightly increases P uptake but also increases the uptake of Na. What other types of beneficials would you recommend? I really don't get into beneficials and, honestly, would rather just use something with less ammoniacal nitrogen if it is causing or contributing to any of my problems.
 
weedemart

weedemart

Well-Known Member
Id like to quote this part from the previous source for further explaination:''Therefore, a careful use of NH4+ is recommended for crops which are sensitive to Ca deficiency. This is especially true when such crops are grown under climatic conditions that reduce the Ca transport to fruits. Good examples of this are the production of tomato and sweet pepper under dry and hot conditions. Both crops are sensitive to blossom-end rot, caused by Ca deficiency in the fruit, which is stimulated by a hot and dry climate. Under such conditions every reduction in Ca uptake becomes dangerous and thus, the use of NH4+ too''
 
weedemart

weedemart

Well-Known Member
Yea honestly im not using any beneficial so, If i was you, I wouldnt look much into it because it doesnt worth the money.Better invest into something that fit your environnement.I keep everything as simple as possible but I dont care invest,if the products worth the money .Some nutes are designed for RO, some for tap water. This is the first thing to look. I prefer use tap most of the times because my tap is very soft,clean and add some buffer/elements in my nutrients solution.So I ended using Canna Aqua because I'm in ebb flow and it fit very well my environnement, it cost a bit more than the competitor but It worth the money and my local hydro have it.

It doesnt mean you cant tweaks your environnement to fit your fertilizer tho. I think if you keep only feeding DG grow and tweak few things , it might work. Do some research and you will possibly end tweaking the right thing and DG might your best option.
 
guerrilla medic

guerrilla medic

Well-Known Member
i would certainly consider 80 degrees with with high humidity an adequate environment. its a better environment than mine probably. the flower room pictured is 75 and 55 rh. are you testing your runoff dirty?
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
guerrilla medic said:
i would certainly consider 80 degrees with with high humidity an adequate environment. its a better environment than mine probably. the flower room pictured is 75 and 55 rh. are you testing your runoff dirty?
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No. Not testing run-off. I would but they are all sitting in a flood table and I would have to take each one out, feed, then test run-off. Pain in the ass.
They are doing fine I will post a picture later. Just wish I new exactly what caused my issue.
 
SamsonsRiddle

SamsonsRiddle

Well-Known Member
4nikator said:
Do you lower the ph in the r/w?? Or just tuck them in? Do you leave them in a container that has water in it or just rely on the humidity dome?

Any temperature concerns, like a heat pad?

thx for the quick reply.
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For cloning (if not too late) I have found a super simple, super easy, super effective way of cloning.

This is not my idea so i take no credit, but i have used it at a 100% effective rate (only tried a few clones so far).


What you need:

Fine Grade Plain Vermiculite (No hidden nutes)
Bottle Ice Tray from Walmart (Makes ice cubes that fit in water bottles - small 1/2" round cylinders about 30 of them connected on one tray
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ice-Tubes-Tray-White/24419361
Handheld Drill
Small Drill Bit
Ziplock plastic food container that will fit the ice tray in
26w (100w equivalent CFL Bulb)
Small Adjustable Lamp

Drill small holes in the bottom of the tray to allow water up into the tubes.
Fill the tubes you want your clones in with the vermiculite, packed pretty tight.
Take cuttings, immediately to water, cut to 45 at bottom and scuff up if you feel it's necessary.
Insert cuttings into vermiculite and make sure it is firmly pressed in to seal the cuttings with the vermiculite.
Add water to plastic food container to about 1/4-1/2" above the bottom of the ice tray to allow it to bottom water the clones.
Place lamp above the clones close enough to keep temp above 75, but not too close to burn the plants or give excess light.

That's it. No dips, no gels, and no creams. I used a little Ful-Power in the water, but only because I had it laying around. Worked 100% for me and is cheap and very easy to reproduce. I actually kept the clones under my vegging pot (vegging pot sits on a rack for easy watering/draining) so that they were kept in a great environment for clones. No need for humidity dome, just add more water every 2 or 3 days.
 
guerrilla medic

guerrilla medic

Well-Known Member
thank you sir. blue dream is my meat and potatoes strain and is whats pictured. its the clone only cali cut (as opposed to the hso or cali connection seed version.) i used dyna-gro veg and 1ml per gallon of thrive alive b1 all the way through this grow. these last couple grows have really opened my eyes to the fact that bloom formulas are a joke.
 
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