What do you think is an appropriate raise for someone working minimum wage?

abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
LOL!! Sometimes I hope you are just trolling...

One of the great things about this place is that it never changes (well except for getting worse).
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Cool reply bro.

So let's say you buy stock in Wal Mart, and then suddenly everyone working for Wal Mart quits.

This idiotic free market ideology has you thinking that money magically appears as if willed by the invisible hand of Adam Smith. Wealth comes from labor, it may go through other hands and be directed by aggregate demand, but it changes not the fact that ALL WEALTH IS CREATED BY LABOR.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Cool reply bro.

So let's say you buy stock in Wal Mart, and then suddenly everyone working for Wal Mart quits.

This idiotic free market ideology has you thinking that money magically appears as if willed by the invisible hand of Adam Smith. Wealth comes from labor, it may go through other hands and be directed by aggregate demand, but it changes not the fact that ALL WEALTH IS CREATED BY LABOR.
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The price of gold, housing, oil, and many other commodities rise and fall just like stock prices. Wealth is created by perception of value.

However, if you want to gloss over market forces and such, lets postulate a simple model that all wealth is created by labor. I agree.

Now, does all labor create wealth? If you mow your lawn has it increased the value of the house and neighborhood?
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
The price of gold, housing, oil, and many other commodities rise and fall just like stock prices. Wealth is created by perception of value.
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Does gold, oil and other commodities just magically appear in usable form and in neat stockpiles somewhere?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Does gold, oil and other commodities just magically appear in usable form and in neat stockpiles somewhere?
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For the purpose of the conversation I am willing to agree that all wealth is created by labor.

Now, could you answer my question? Does all labor create wealth? If you carve your house up with a chainsaw until it falls into the basement it will have been a lot of labor. Did that labor create wealth?
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
For the purpose of the conversation I am willing to agree that all wealth is created by labor.

Now, could you answer my question? Does all labor create wealth? If you carve your house up with a chainsaw until it falls into the basement it will have been a lot of labor. Did that labor create wealth?
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Do all stupid fucking questions require answers?

I get your stupid hateful point. You think some people don't deserve to eat.

The problem with your world view is that you give a pass to people who hoard so much wealth and create none.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
I am not sure why you are for minimum wage. It simply means the government forbids you to take a job for any less. They are taking your freedom away, not giving you anything.

I keep trying to explain how it is about you and your abilities and you keep going back to some socialist mathematical formula that does not take into account the revenue the job generates and the individual skill levels, knowledge and experience of the workers. Do you really wish to be lumped in with every other minimum wage worker? Dont you have some skills that set you apart and above?

In certain parts of the country right now the minimum wage is 30+ dollars an hour because the market has created a lack of employees and thus market forces have driven the wages up to an unsustainable level. Is that unfair to the people making a lot of money?

There is no reasonable nor unreasonable dollar amount raise for a minimum wage employee, only what you have negotiated with your employer when you voluntarily accepted the position.

If you only make 7.25 an hour you could go get a job like Schuylarr and make between $9 and $12.00 per hour. If it is a sales telephone job you could get more. That is entry level.

See how quickly you can raise your own wages?
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Schuylaar didn't get the job. That multiyear gap in work history is a big deterrent to getting hired. Not saying this was the reason, just suggesting it as a possibility.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Do houses magically appear from thin fucking air?
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No, they are built with labor and then sold usually for a fixed price. The value of the house then goes up and down based on market forces. Unless you want to argue that the previous labor is somehow having an effect on the future sales price of the property.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
No, they are built with labor and then sold usually for a fixed price. The value of the house then goes up and down based on market forces. Unless you want to argue that the previous labor is somehow having an effect on the future sales price of the property.
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The problem with market forces is that they don't actually create any wealth.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Do all stupid fucking questions require answers?

I get your stupid hateful point. You think some people don't deserve to eat.

The problem with your world view is that you give a pass to people who hoard so much wealth and create none.
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And you accuse me of being angry... LOL!!! I dont hate anyone and I hope everyone gets to eat. In fact, I have not heard of anyone starving lately. This gets thrown about a lot. Please provide an example of Americans starving to death because Donald Trump didnt care...

The problem, for you, is you realize the logical fallacy you would have to step in to continue supporting your premise.

The answer to the question is no, not all labor has value. Suddenly we are now on the playing field of judging which labor has more value than which other labor. And accordingly, this is the US labor market. The market decides which labor has value and how much value that labor has and pays accordingly.

You are unhappy that some people seemingly have it much better than other people and the system isnt 'fair' yet somehow, the government can fix it if they just take money from some people and give it to other people.

Newsflash: the government doesnt care, it cannot care any more than a corporation can care. The difference is a corporation cannot compel you to do anything unless it has government backing like Obamacare. You are fearing the wrong entity..
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
bearkat42 said:
I said nothing of supporting a family. I said that the person should be able to live, which you can't while making $7.50/hour.
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Are you claiming those making minimum wage are are vampires or zombies? Probably zombies, judging by the way they fuck up my order all the time.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
Globally they dont but locally they can. Hillary clinton made 100's of thousands off of cattle futures and she wasnt ropin' em....
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She didn't even invest any money until years after she got the "profits". Her money manager went to prison for that, by the way.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
NLXSK1 said:
And you accuse me of being angry... LOL!!! I dont hate anyone and I hope everyone gets to eat. In fact, I have not heard of anyone starving lately. This gets thrown about a lot. Please provide an example of Americans starving to death because Donald Trump didnt care...

The problem, for you, is you realize the logical fallacy you would have to step in to continue supporting your premise.

The answer to the question is no, not all labor has value. Suddenly we are now on the playing field of judging which labor has more value than which other labor. And accordingly, this is the US labor market. The market decides which labor has value and how much value that labor has and pays accordingly.

You are unhappy that some people seemingly have it much better than other people and the system isnt 'fair' yet somehow, the government can fix it if they just take money from some people and give it to other people.

Newsflash: the government doesnt care, it cannot care any more than a corporation can care. The difference is a corporation cannot compel you to do anything unless it has government backing like Obamacare. You are fearing the wrong entity..
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So you do in fact think some people deserve to be poor, because they're not worth as much as other people because they create less wealth.

The problem with that is, you're giving a pass to all those billionaires who hoard so much wealth and create absolutely fucking nothing.

I said this before and it went over your head as to why I said it, because you think so slowly and can't imagine that I'm several steps ahead of you logically. Yet you wonder why I'm annoyed. Do try to keep up, ya dingus.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
It's common sense that any worker working full time (40 hours a week) in America should be paid a living wage, regardless of the skill or education level the job requires, age, gender, sexual orientation, skin color, etc.

Taxpayers are subsidizing businesses that don't pay their employees a living wage when they utilize social safety net programs

If the job isn't important enough to pay the worker a living wage, it's not important enough to exist
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Your opinion doesn't qualify as "common sense". It's just your opinion.
Taxpayers aren't subsidizing the businesses, they're subsidizing the employees.
So you would put all workers making less than an undefined "living wage" out of work?
 
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