Fox news. enter at your own risk.

[Padawanbater2]

I said it once and I will say it again. Burning flags in front of veterans is not a peaceful demonstration. If they were protesting cops why don't they burn cop uniforms instead?

Even the most conservative state, Texas, and the most conservative judge on the Supreme Court, Scalia, disagrees:

"The majority of the Court, according to Justice William Brennan, agreed with Johnson and held that flag burning constitutes a form of "symbolic speech" that is protected by the First Amendment. The majority noted that freedom of speech protects actions that society may find very offensive, but society's outrage alone is not justification for suppressing free speech.

In particular, the majority noted that the Texas law discriminated upon viewpoint, i.e., although the law punished actions, such as flag burning, that might arouse anger in others, it specifically exempted from prosecution actions that were respectful of venerated objects, e.g., burning and burying a worn-out flag. The majority said that the government could not discriminate in this manner based solely upon viewpoint."

http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/facts-and-case-summary-texas-v-johnson

 

[spandy]

I have always liked the station attendant pumping gas while I sit in my truck and the funny thing is when I go to Washington or Cali I have never noticed a savings when I pump my own gas. If anything its seems to be the same price or higher.

The small mom and pop gas station by my house in Hawaii has an attendant pumping gas just like in Oregon and he doesn't charge anymore than the self serve stations and sometimes he is cheaper. So I am not sure where the savings is.

I remember going to Oregon. Fuckin fuel attendants all across that state spilled fuel up and down the side of our rig at every stop. And then for some reason they smear the bugs around on your windshield to add insult to injury. Not to mention if you complained about the fuel spill, they would either attempt to wipe it with a dirty towel and swirl the shit out of your paint, or offer a free car wash with those spinning brushes that fuck up everything in their path.

Fuck paying per mile. I drive just for fun, 200-300 miles a week when weather is nice. No destination, just a few hard pulls and scenery for hours.

 

[nitro harley]

It was nonviolent and the bikers violently broke it up. Do you believe that anybody offended by a nonviolent protest may do this? Only veterans can do this?

If they wouldn't of decided to have a flag burning the bikers might of protested the cops with them. But when you start burning flags you become very unpopular in a hurry.

 

[nitro harley]

Even the most conservative state, Texas, and the most conservative judge on the Supreme Court, Scalia, disagrees:

"The majority of the Court, according to Justice William Brennan, agreed with Johnson and held that flag burning constitutes a form of "symbolic speech" that is protected by the First Amendment. The majority noted that freedom of speech protects actions that society may find very offensive, but society's outrage alone is not justification for suppressing free speech.

In particular, the majority noted that the Texas law discriminated upon viewpoint, i.e., although the law punished actions, such as flag burning, that might arouse anger in others, it specifically exempted from prosecution actions that were respectful of venerated objects, e.g., burning and burying a worn-out flag. The majority said that the government could not discriminate in this manner based solely upon viewpoint."

http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/facts-and-case-summary-texas-v-johnson

Go burn a flag if you have a need to. Have your neighbors come buy and you can tell them you are having a barbecue.

 

[Fogdog]

I remember going to Oregon. Fuckin fuel attendants all across that state spilled fuel up and down the side of our rig at every stop. And then for some reason they smear the bugs around on your windshield to add insult to injury. Not to mention if you complained about the fuel spill, they would either attempt to wipe it with a dirty towel and swirl the shit out of your paint, or offer a free car wash with those spinning brushes that fuck up everything in their path.

Fuck paying per mile. I drive just for fun, 200-300 miles a week when weather is nice. No destination, just a few hard pulls and scenery for hours.

Agreed. I live in Oregon and am always annoyed by the wait to get my car filled. I haven't had the same bad experience that you had, perhaps you exaggerated regarding "every", but they don't do anything that I couldn't do and sometimes they do it worse. Most don't even smear the bugs around on the windshield.

On the other hand, @spandy , perhaps your attitude had something to do with your service. The tone of your post suggests this.

As far as paying by the mile is concerned, it has nothing to do with the requirement for a service station attendant to fill the car. I'm not as paranoid about it as some but I admit that I'm uncomfortable with the proposal. Cars are more fuel efficient nowadays and use less fuel than before. The cost of road maintenance hasn't declined. Either we go with this new system or the fuel taxes will go up. Nobody is going to pay less. I don't see why we need the mileage meters.

 

[Fogdog]

If they wouldn't of decided to have a flag burning the bikers might of protested the cops with them. But when you start burning flags you become very unpopular in a hurry.

So you are agreeing that its OK for violent men to break up a non violent and lawful protest if the protest offends them?

 

[nitro harley]

So you are agreeing that its OK for violent men to break up a non violent and lawful protest if the protest offends them?

I don't burn flags and I never will so if you think poking a bear in the eye is peaceful have at it.

 

[Fogdog]

I don't burn flags and I never will so if you think poking a bear in the eye is peaceful have at it.

Then you do agree that it's OK to violently suppress a nonviolent and lawful demonstration if you are offended by it?

 

[nitro harley]

Then you do agree that it's OK to violently suppress a nonviolent and lawful demonstration if you are offended by it?

I don't think anybody got beat up. They hid behind the cops and then ran like cock roaches. What violence are you talking about?

 

[Fogdog]

I don't think anybody got beat up. They hid behind the cops and then ran like cock roaches. What violence are you talking about?

If we are using lawful definition of violence, It doesn't matter if somebody actually got punched. :

Violence definition::

• LAW
  the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.

 

[Fogdog]

If we are using lawful definition of violence, It doesn't matter if somebody actually got punched. :

Violence definition::

• LAW
  the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.

So, here's my objection to your somewhat bemused and knuckle-headed idea that these protesters somehow got what they were asking for.

Whether or not I agree or approve of what these people were doing, they were contentiously obeying the law. If we begin to set some unwritten rules about what can and can't be done during a protest, then who's to say what's OK and what's not? Also, the bikers were, you must admit, a pretty intimidating group. The next level of this kind of suppression would be paying bikers to break up a protest. Then the obvious answer is for the protesters to pay another group to protect them. You can see how this can spin out of control, can't you? Suppression of free speech just compresses the raw feelings that went into it. Its best to let people have their lawful say and behave like adults.

 

[nitro harley]

So, here's my objection to your somewhat bemused and knuckle-headed idea that these protesters somehow got what they were asking for.

Whether or not I agree or approve of what these people were doing, they were contentiously obeying the law. If we begin to set some unwritten rules about what can and can't be done during a protest, then who's to say what's OK and what's not? Also, the bikers were, you must admit, a pretty intimidating group. The next level of this kind of suppression would be paying bikers to break up a protest. Then the obvious answer is for the protesters to pay another group to protect them. You can see how this can spin out of control, can't you? Suppression of free speech just compresses the raw feelings that went into it. Its best to let people have their lawful say and behave like adults.

The bikers were a intimidating group for sure and a lot of them are veterans so you see what happened. I can't change it and you can't change how they feel about the flag , so these bikers are not going to see things your way or the protesters way ever. I guess the protesters can do it again and let the cops know about it so they can protect them again. The funny part of it all was they were protesting the cops and it backfired.

People should not pay Bikers to do anything or we would be writing Gimme Shelter all over again. Atleast the protesters know about the Bikers feeling for the flag now. Maybe they will try it again, who knows. Burning things is kinda dangerous for a friendly protest anyway. One of my neighbors a month ago was burning trash in a barrel and it burned down half the neighborhood, only one two story house was burned to the ground but a lot of peoples property got scorched . And that guy was friendly and peaceful but he ran like a cock roach too, and the cops are still looking for him.

 

[UncleBuck]

One of my neighbors a month ago was burning trash in a barrel and it burned down half the neighborhood, only one two story house was burned to the ground but a lot of peoples property got scorched . And that guy was friendly and peaceful but he ran like a cock roach too, and the cops are still looking for him.

what kind of white trash shithole do you live in?

did you hire a realtor to find the biggest white trash shithole on hawaii?

 

[nitro harley]

This is a little over the top for not baking a cake.

Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay $135K by Monday -- or else

By Todd Starnes

Published July 08, 2015
Facebook2382 Twitter939 livefyre5799 Email Print

Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, were punished by the state’s Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) for unlawfully discriminating against a same-sex couple.

Click here to follow Todd on Facebook for conservative news!

The Kleins, who are devout evangelical Christians, argued that baking the cake would be a violation of their religious beliefs.

The BOLI ruling ordered the mom-and-pop bakers to pay $135,000 to the lesbian couple. They were also slapped with a gag order that prohibits themfrom speaking publicly about their refusal to participate in or bake wedding cakes for same-sex unions.

And now - they have until July 13 to pay the damages or else face additional fines and a possible lien on their home.

“This is intimidation and bullying - that’s exactly what it is,” Klein told me in a telephone interview.“ They are trying to strong-arm me into handing over $135,000 to the two girls and if I win on appeal - they will never pay me back.”

A BOLI spokesman confirmed they sent a standard payment letter to the Kleins' attorney.

“The letter informs them that if we do not hear from them, we may turn the matter over to the Department of Revenue, which can place a lien on real property,” the spokesman told me.

BOLI said they would also be willing to accept either a full payment or payment arrangements.

“Of course, they can also ask for a stay of enforcement while they pursue their appeal,” the spokesman said.

But there’s a catch. The person who will determine whether or not to stay the order — is BOLI Commissioner Brad Avakian — a vocal supporter of the LGBTQIA movement.

“The judge, jury and executioner are all in one place,” said Anna Harmon, the Kleins' attorney. “He is intent on using his office to root out thought and speech with which he personally disagrees.”

Harmon, who is affiliated with Alliance Defending Freedom, said they were expecting the payment letter that came from BOLI.

“This letter, while it’s the normal procedure, continues to show the state is not backing down,” she told me. “They don’t think they did anything wrong here.”

Avakian’s strong arm tactics against the Christian bakers have outraged Christians across the nation.

“This guy would make Mussolini proud,” said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research council. “This is a wannabe dictator.”

It certainly appears that Avakian and the state of Oregon have declared war on the Klein family.

“Not only do they want to drive them out of business, but they want to make them homeless,” Perkins told me.

The Kleins say they are filing a stay and do plan on appealing the state’s decision.

“Brad and his cohorts at BOLI have overstepped their constitutional rights in requiring me to cease and desist from my constitutional freedom,” Mr. Klein said. “I will fight them with every last breath I have.”

Mrs. Klein said she would not be intimidated by Avakian’s hard line tactics.

“He definitely messed with the wrong Christians”

- Melissa Klein

“We are so going to fight this, oh my gosh,” she said. “It’s making us stronger and emboldening us to stand up to this. Aaron and I are fighting for every American out there - for their freedom. We are not backing down at all.”

And while the viciousness of the attacks against the Kleins might be unsettling — Harmon said it really should serve as a source of inspiration.

“What a time to be an American,” she said. “It’s a hard time - our freedoms are challenged - but what a time to be able to stand and have courage and say, ‘I have a moment in time where I can be a voice for that.’”

And the Kleins are not ready to throw in the towel just yet.

“He definitely messed with the wrong Christians,” Mrs. Klein told me.

Todd Starnes is host of Fox News & Commentary, heard on hundreds of radio stations. His latest book is "God Less America: Real Stories From the Front Lines of the Attack on Traditional Values." Follow Todd on Twitter@ToddStarnes and find him on Facebook.




+

 

[abandonconflict]

I'm a veteran and I have burned a few flags. Get over it, it's a fucking rag.

 

[abandonconflict]

This is a little over the top for not baking a cake.

Bakers who refused to make lesbian wedding cake told to pay $135K by Monday -- or else

By Todd Starnes

Published July 08, 2015
Facebook2382 Twitter939 livefyre5799 Email Print

Two Christian bakers who refused to bake a cake for a lesbian wedding have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages by July 13 or else the state of Oregon could place a lien on their home.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa, were punished by the state’s Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) for unlawfully discriminating against a same-sex couple.

Click here to follow Todd on Facebook for conservative news!

The Kleins, who are devout evangelical Christians, argued that baking the cake would be a violation of their religious beliefs.

The BOLI ruling ordered the mom-and-pop bakers to pay $135,000 to the lesbian couple. They were also slapped with a gag order that prohibits themfrom speaking publicly about their refusal to participate in or bake wedding cakes for same-sex unions.

And now - they have until July 13 to pay the damages or else face additional fines and a possible lien on their home.

“This is intimidation and bullying - that’s exactly what it is,” Klein told me in a telephone interview.“ They are trying to strong-arm me into handing over $135,000 to the two girls and if I win on appeal - they will never pay me back.”

A BOLI spokesman confirmed they sent a standard payment letter to the Kleins' attorney.

“The letter informs them that if we do not hear from them, we may turn the matter over to the Department of Revenue, which can place a lien on real property,” the spokesman told me.

BOLI said they would also be willing to accept either a full payment or payment arrangements.

“Of course, they can also ask for a stay of enforcement while they pursue their appeal,” the spokesman said.

But there’s a catch. The person who will determine whether or not to stay the order — is BOLI Commissioner Brad Avakian — a vocal supporter of the LGBTQIA movement.

“The judge, jury and executioner are all in one place,” said Anna Harmon, the Kleins' attorney. “He is intent on using his office to root out thought and speech with which he personally disagrees.”

Harmon, who is affiliated with Alliance Defending Freedom, said they were expecting the payment letter that came from BOLI.

“This letter, while it’s the normal procedure, continues to show the state is not backing down,” she told me. “They don’t think they did anything wrong here.”

Avakian’s strong arm tactics against the Christian bakers have outraged Christians across the nation.

“This guy would make Mussolini proud,” said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research council. “This is a wannabe dictator.”

It certainly appears that Avakian and the state of Oregon have declared war on the Klein family.

“Not only do they want to drive them out of business, but they want to make them homeless,” Perkins told me.

The Kleins say they are filing a stay and do plan on appealing the state’s decision.

“Brad and his cohorts at BOLI have overstepped their constitutional rights in requiring me to cease and desist from my constitutional freedom,” Mr. Klein said. “I will fight them with every last breath I have.”

Mrs. Klein said she would not be intimidated by Avakian’s hard line tactics.

“He definitely messed with the wrong Christians”

- Melissa Klein

“We are so going to fight this, oh my gosh,” she said. “It’s making us stronger and emboldening us to stand up to this. Aaron and I are fighting for every American out there - for their freedom. We are not backing down at all.”

And while the viciousness of the attacks against the Kleins might be unsettling — Harmon said it really should serve as a source of inspiration.

“What a time to be an American,” she said. “It’s a hard time - our freedoms are challenged - but what a time to be able to stand and have courage and say, ‘I have a moment in time where I can be a voice for that.’”

And the Kleins are not ready to throw in the towel just yet.

“He definitely messed with the wrong Christians,” Mrs. Klein told me.

Todd Starnes is host of Fox News & Commentary, heard on hundreds of radio stations. His latest book is "God Less America: Real Stories From the Front Lines of the Attack on Traditional Values." Follow Todd on Twitter@ToddStarnes and find him on Facebook.


+

Jesus isn't real.

 

[nitro harley]

Jesus isn't real.

How do you know?

 

[abandonconflict]

How do you know?

Because the book that tells pretty stories about him is full of bullshit.

 

[UncleBuck]

“This is intimidation and bullying - that’s exactly what it is,” Klein told me in a telephone interview.

says the guy who refuses to serve people because they are gay, without a hint of irony.

"Aaron and I are fighting for every American out there - for their freedom."

says the lady who reuses to serve people who are gay, without a hint of irony.

 

[Fogdog]

The bikers were a intimidating group for sure and a lot of them are veterans so you see what happened. I can't change it and you can't change how they feel about the flag , so these bikers are not going to see things your way or the protesters way ever. I guess the protesters can do it again and let the cops know about it so they can protect them again. The funny part of it all was they were protesting the cops and it backfired..

Come on guy. The fact that it was a flag burning is irrelevant and you as much say so by comparing this to burning trash.. The only thing as you point out, the protest was taking place in front of some pretty scary guys, This makes the protest an act of defiance and a brave act. I'd be running too from those guys too.

Burning things is kinda dangerous for a friendly protest anyway. One of my neighbors a month ago was burning trash in a barrel and it burned down half the neighborhood, only one two story house was burned to the ground but a lot of peoples property got scorched . And that guy was friendly and peaceful but he ran like a cock roach too, and the cops are still looking for him.

I don't see how this connects in any way with the violation of free speech rights.