superloud
Well-Known Member
Not true i accept ot because its available. And i have to live and everthing eles pays the same the standards need to be changed. my employer shouldent be alloud to think I'm worth 8 hr to do what i fo
Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
"In this land of big dreams, there was never a dream bigger or more important than the one so deeply rooted in our values that it became known as the American Dream. Across generations, Americans shared the belief that hard work would bring opportunity and a better life. America wasn’t perfect, but we invested in our kids and put in place policies to build a strong middle class.
We don’t do that anymore, and the result is clear: The rich get richer, while everyone else falls behind. The game is rigged, and the people who rigged it want it to stay that way. They claim that if we act to improve the economic well-being of hard-working Americans — whether by increasing the minimum wage, reining in lawbreakers on Wall Street or doing practically anything else — we will threaten economic growth.
They are wrong.
That thinking is backward. A growing body of research — including work done by Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and the Roosevelt Institute — shows clearly that an increasing disparity between rich and poor, cronyism and an economic system that works only for those at the top are bad for the middle class and bad for our economy.
When the economy works for everyone, consumers have money to spend at businesses, and when businesses have more customers, they build more factories, hire more workers and sell more products — and the economy grows. For decades, our economy was built around this core understanding. We made big investments in the things that would create opportunities for everyone: public schools and universities; roads and bridges and power grids; research that spurred new industries, technologies — and jobs — here in the United States. We supported strong unions that pushed for better wages and working conditions, seeing those unions improve lives both for their members and for workers everywhere.
And it worked. From the 1930s to the late 1970s, as gross domestic product went up, wages increased more or less across the board. As the economic pie got bigger, pretty much everyone was getting a little more. That was how the United States built a great middle class.
Then in the early 1980s, a new theory swept the country. Its disciples claimed that if government policies took care of the rich and powerful, wealth would trickle down for everyone else. Trickle-down believers cut taxes sharply for those at the top and pushed for “deregulation” that hobbled the cops on Wall Street and let the most powerful corporations far too often do as they pleased.
Trickle-down economics failed disastrously. The rich and powerful have become richer and more powerful . In the past 35 years, the top 10 percent got all the growth in income. The rest of America — 90 percent of Americans — got nothing. Zip. Zero.
Government policies matter and can make a difference. Strengthening the American Dream is about the basics:
● Make work pay by increasing the minimum wage, empowering unions to bargain collectively, ending abusive scheduling practices for hourly workers, getting people the overtime pay they deserve, ensuring equal pay for equal work and making sure employers follow the law and respect the rights of workers.
● End the squeeze on working parents by passing a paid family leave requirement and investing in child care, after-school programs and extended learning days. Let families with children have a chance to balance careers with quality time together.
● Ensure everyone can get a great education without drowning in debt. Rein in the cost of college and allow families to refinance student loans at lower rates. Give every child access to full-day pre-kindergarten. Education is still the best ticket to the middle class.
● Focus on research and innovation needed to develop the technologies of the future. Investments in medical and scientific research let us build whole new industries and give us the chance to create good jobs right here in America.
● Invest in infrastructure — in roads, bridges, rail, water, power and broadband. Businesses can’t grow if the foundation crumbles beneath them. A 21st-century economy needs 21st-century infrastructure.
● Strengthen and expand Social Security, not just for today’s seniors but also for today’s young people. Work is changing. A strong Social Security system will ensure that all workers, no matter the number of jobs they piece together during their careers, can count on a secure retirement.
● Strengthen the rules of the marketplace. We don’t build a future by turning the biggest banks loose to do whatever they want, and markets don’t create value when corporations can cheat people or roll over their upstart competition.
● Promote fair trade by embracing only those trade policies that strengthen our economy, create good jobs with good wages and establish fair rules of the road for companies around the world. Our trade agreements shouldn’t help multinational companies gut environmental, health and safety standards here and abroad under the guise of promoting commerce.
● Reform the tax code by ending the billions in tax breaks for corporations shipping jobs overseas and big oil companies, while leveling the playing field so that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share.
Rebuilding our middle class won’t be easy, but real change rarely is. It’s time to be bold.
The American Dream depends on it."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-to-revive-the-american-dream/2015/05/06/a583c94c-f323-11e4-b2f3-af5479e6bbdd_story.html?tid=rssfeed
Now, would any of you opponents or critics of such measures like to explain why any of those bullet points is the wrong thing to do to improve conditions for the poor/middle class? I have a strong suspicion @Uncle Ben and @Harrekin in particular oppose these measures or anything anyone perceived to be left of them proposes because they proposed it, not because of the actual measures themselves, which is what petulant children do when they don't get their way. If that's not the case and you can actually produce legitimate criticisms, I'm all ears, but we all know you can't. The most common rebuttal to the overwhelming data proving the point of the thread is "Yeah, well you're just lazy!"... Forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by the thought that went into that..
If all you have is "You're lazy! Work harder! Get a better education! I did!", then go pound sand because it's all been addressed before, multiple times in this thread alone. You're not hearing what's being said, you think people are asking for handouts when what people are asking for is what they've already earned and what's rightfully theirs.
As for the rest of the members watching this thread, pay close attention to how these two address this challenge. It'll show you exactly how both sides view this issue, if improving conditions for the poor/middle class were actually a priority to them, they would respond at the very least with legitimate questions of their own, but they don't. Instead they sling mud and call poor people lazy and uneducated and tell them they fucked up their lives all on their own, their position in life, be it racial, economic or otherwise plays no role in reaching success and everyone's born with totally equal opportunity.
We'll see, this should be pretty interesting..
We don’t do that anymore, and the result is clear: The rich get richer, while everyone else falls behind. The game is rigged, and the people who rigged it want it to stay that way. They claim that if we act to improve the economic well-being of hard-working Americans — whether by increasing the minimum wage, reining in lawbreakers on Wall Street or doing practically anything else — we will threaten economic growth.
They are wrong.
That thinking is backward. A growing body of research — including work done by Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and the Roosevelt Institute — shows clearly that an increasing disparity between rich and poor, cronyism and an economic system that works only for those at the top are bad for the middle class and bad for our economy.
When the economy works for everyone, consumers have money to spend at businesses, and when businesses have more customers, they build more factories, hire more workers and sell more products — and the economy grows. For decades, our economy was built around this core understanding. We made big investments in the things that would create opportunities for everyone: public schools and universities; roads and bridges and power grids; research that spurred new industries, technologies — and jobs — here in the United States. We supported strong unions that pushed for better wages and working conditions, seeing those unions improve lives both for their members and for workers everywhere.
And it worked. From the 1930s to the late 1970s, as gross domestic product went up, wages increased more or less across the board. As the economic pie got bigger, pretty much everyone was getting a little more. That was how the United States built a great middle class.
Then in the early 1980s, a new theory swept the country. Its disciples claimed that if government policies took care of the rich and powerful, wealth would trickle down for everyone else. Trickle-down believers cut taxes sharply for those at the top and pushed for “deregulation” that hobbled the cops on Wall Street and let the most powerful corporations far too often do as they pleased.
Trickle-down economics failed disastrously. The rich and powerful have become richer and more powerful . In the past 35 years, the top 10 percent got all the growth in income. The rest of America — 90 percent of Americans — got nothing. Zip. Zero.
Government policies matter and can make a difference. Strengthening the American Dream is about the basics:
● Make work pay by increasing the minimum wage, empowering unions to bargain collectively, ending abusive scheduling practices for hourly workers, getting people the overtime pay they deserve, ensuring equal pay for equal work and making sure employers follow the law and respect the rights of workers.
● End the squeeze on working parents by passing a paid family leave requirement and investing in child care, after-school programs and extended learning days. Let families with children have a chance to balance careers with quality time together.
● Ensure everyone can get a great education without drowning in debt. Rein in the cost of college and allow families to refinance student loans at lower rates. Give every child access to full-day pre-kindergarten. Education is still the best ticket to the middle class.
● Focus on research and innovation needed to develop the technologies of the future. Investments in medical and scientific research let us build whole new industries and give us the chance to create good jobs right here in America.
● Invest in infrastructure — in roads, bridges, rail, water, power and broadband. Businesses can’t grow if the foundation crumbles beneath them. A 21st-century economy needs 21st-century infrastructure.
● Strengthen and expand Social Security, not just for today’s seniors but also for today’s young people. Work is changing. A strong Social Security system will ensure that all workers, no matter the number of jobs they piece together during their careers, can count on a secure retirement.
● Strengthen the rules of the marketplace. We don’t build a future by turning the biggest banks loose to do whatever they want, and markets don’t create value when corporations can cheat people or roll over their upstart competition.
● Promote fair trade by embracing only those trade policies that strengthen our economy, create good jobs with good wages and establish fair rules of the road for companies around the world. Our trade agreements shouldn’t help multinational companies gut environmental, health and safety standards here and abroad under the guise of promoting commerce.
● Reform the tax code by ending the billions in tax breaks for corporations shipping jobs overseas and big oil companies, while leveling the playing field so that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share.
Rebuilding our middle class won’t be easy, but real change rarely is. It’s time to be bold.
The American Dream depends on it."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-to-revive-the-american-dream/2015/05/06/a583c94c-f323-11e4-b2f3-af5479e6bbdd_story.html?tid=rssfeed
Now, would any of you opponents or critics of such measures like to explain why any of those bullet points is the wrong thing to do to improve conditions for the poor/middle class? I have a strong suspicion @Uncle Ben and @Harrekin in particular oppose these measures or anything anyone perceived to be left of them proposes because they proposed it, not because of the actual measures themselves, which is what petulant children do when they don't get their way. If that's not the case and you can actually produce legitimate criticisms, I'm all ears, but we all know you can't. The most common rebuttal to the overwhelming data proving the point of the thread is "Yeah, well you're just lazy!"... Forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by the thought that went into that..
If all you have is "You're lazy! Work harder! Get a better education! I did!", then go pound sand because it's all been addressed before, multiple times in this thread alone. You're not hearing what's being said, you think people are asking for handouts when what people are asking for is what they've already earned and what's rightfully theirs.
As for the rest of the members watching this thread, pay close attention to how these two address this challenge. It'll show you exactly how both sides view this issue, if improving conditions for the poor/middle class were actually a priority to them, they would respond at the very least with legitimate questions of their own, but they don't. Instead they sling mud and call poor people lazy and uneducated and tell them they fucked up their lives all on their own, their position in life, be it racial, economic or otherwise plays no role in reaching success and everyone's born with totally equal opportunity.
We'll see, this should be pretty interesting..
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
What if somebody agrees to work for $2/day because they're starving?
If you were his boss, would you be OK with paying someone starving $2/day if that's what he agreed to?
BDOGKush
Well-Known Member
Whats not true? Are you saying you took a job that pays $8 an hour because there wasn't any other job available?
panhead
Well-Known Member
Isnt that dude Ed McMan from the old Tonight Show with Carson
superloud
Well-Known Member
Well I get paid 12 35 an hour but I bring Home 8 dollars an hour after taxes and insurance. And yes there is nothing that pays more than that that I can find. All the jobs that do pay more require you to have experience already to do the job. What I was saying is not true it just because I agreed to work for that price does not mean that's what I am worth. I choose to work for that price because that's what the norm is of what people get paid.
OddBall1st
Well-Known Member
Take some personal responsibility,...you applied and you decide if that`s the job for you. Most companies offer to the person applying, Should you not like that offer,....move along, .....
Stop blaming employers for accepting an employees application for a job. Why would anyone take a poorly paying job ? If you took the job, you did it, not the employer.....
I got a highly skilled job offer for you, it`s shit for pay, not even enough for transportation, in fact you lose money at this job but can borrow from the company at a rate..... but work non the less.......Would you take the job fool.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This is ridiculous. A dozen people are standing here, telling you that the company has all the cards stacked in its favor. How the Fuck is the average worker, ALONE, going to be able to 'negotiate' a living wage under such circumstances?!
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Finally a reasonable lefty, the problem is some people here think they should he able to support a family on a McCareer.
BDOGKush
Well-Known Member
theexpress
Well-Known Member
She shouldn't have had a whole litter of children..
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Someone needs to be held accountable cos a slut couldn't stop opening her legs.
They also should have to pay!
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Then you never told someone something like that before.
Go live on twelve an hour and see if it gets you anything more than bare subsistence. Not good enough, miser boy.
I want to see my employees thrive and do well in their WHOLE LIVES, not just at my job. They end up being better employees that way- funny how that works.
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
That's EXACTLY right. They don't NEED to do anything beyond pay you what they think the job is worth. You have the right and the privilege to not work for them. Why is it your employer's responsibility to bankroll your choices? They sure didn't encourage your wife to shit out a bunch of kids you couldn't afford. Keep your junk in your trousers or wrap that shit up if you don't earn a salary that is conducive to an increasing family size.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
12 an hour with only me is very doable. Now add in a wife and two children and I would find myself going to some type of school to better myself and obtain a better job. Do you really think you should make 20 an hour working in a laundromat or carwash?
panhead
Well-Known Member
As far as im concerned there's no arguing with this quoted fact, even trying to discount it is stupidity , there is no " But " to disqualify that statement .
People can argue all day long otherwise & it'll change nothing , its simple economics , the more people have the more they spend , then profits rise for everybody .
Its too bad others wont read the post because its a wall of text , i prefer long posts because they convey information , its the one liners i skip by .
Well the employer method of controlling employees by keeping them too broke they cant afford to miss time from work to look for a better paying job does work , im sorry you use that method ,i'd bet it keeps you tied to your business .
I prefer to pay people enough they are happy to work for me & can work unsupervised ,both businesses i owned are on auto pilot & ran by well paid happy employees .
Whats your policy on xmas bonuses ? Please dont say a Turkey gift certificate