LED Noobs, STOP Buying China Junk

[az2000]

i thought for a second blue font was back

is there any news on blue font, is he still awol ?

See
https://www.rollitup.org/t/insight-amare-tech-solar-spec-led-panels.846158/page-7#post-11117924

 

[Abiqua]

That is exactly what I am saying. How can you say you can build a BETTER panel for cheaper and at the same time say you would have to spend more to build an equally good one?

It is all based on the #'s provided by the manufactures of the diodes and drivers and other related equipment. Nothing more nothing less. What else is it supposed to be based on, antecdotal evidence that goes nowhere? They are quite informing, have you read any?
The speculation part is on your part?

 

[az2000]

Also, there was a thread where a rep or owner of Apache Tech was explaining why he wouldnt give a panel for aside by side testing, and he said it was because he's not after the grower market because they are too small a market base, he is looking for places that will be buying 100s of lights in bulk.

I'd say it's because the difference in yield wouldn't justify Apache's prices. I agree with you Apache seems overpriced. Maybe someone who owns an Apache can explain why it's worth the added cost.

I struggle with heat for 4-5 months. If Apache ran cooler (for umoles delivered), I might fork out the money. But, things are changing so rapidly. A51 is coming out with a new model in 2015 which is supposed to be more efficient. I'd be curious how it compares to Apache.

BTW: Anyone using a Chinese light I'd strongly recommend supplementing with Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot (A19, BR30 or PAR38 flood/spot). You can make up for some of the inefficiency relatively inexpensively. Also have some options for when (not if) the Chinese light fails.

 

[Abiqua]

Also, there was a thread where a rep or owner of Apache Tech was explaining why he wouldnt give a panel for aside by side testing, and he said it was because he's not after the grower market because they are too small a market base, he is looking for places that will be buying 100s of lights in bulk. This tells me that there isn't a large enough consumer base to allow them to order in large enough bulk to thrive on a slim profit margin. Even with economy of scale, they aren't selling at or below what our cost would be, they just aren't. They need to make money and they aren't selling enough product to have that thin of a profit margin.

Wrong, again, they sell a large amount to many places who order in bulk. They seem to have not as much interest in single purchasing consumers. Nothing wrong with that as a business. Its their business model.

 

[Dyna Ryda]

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Platinum-P300-11-band-Grow/dp/B00NTBS91Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418271700&sr=8-4&keywords=led+grow+light
I traded some meds for one of these and a 400w version. They seem to be working good so I'm thinking of adding more. Are these good brands? What about apollo? They are cheaper but is does that mean they are inferior? I'm new to led's and have no idea what to look for.

 

[Abiqua]

And Ace you are probably right about them being expensive, however you are free to build a light with your choice of components, so what exactly is the beef. If you have other options, hit ignore on one of them....

 

[Abiqua]

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Platinum-P300-11-band-Grow/dp/B00NTBS91Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418271700&sr=8-4&keywords=led grow light
I traded some meds for one of these and a 400w version. They seem to be working good so I'm thinking of adding more. Are these good brands? What about apollo? They are cheaper but is does that mean they are inferior? I'm new to led's and have no idea what to look for.

My only beef with these LED's like all other LED's of this comparison, is that you don't have any data to know any kind of basic info on the diodes. That's it. These grow and people have success. AZ uses a custom spectrum Apollo basically and I think they have excellent results.

 

[Ace Yonder]

It is all based on the #'s provided by the manufactures of the diodes. Nothing more nothing less.They are quite informing, have you read any?
The speculation part is on your part?

Yes, I have spent hours and hours of research on this topic because I want to be 100% certain that when i invest I invest in the correct thing. However, I'm a bit confused so let me get this straight. We both agree that Supra's lights are better, because they use superior tech and cost less.The corollary to this is that the other lights use parts that are both more expensive, and of inferior quality. If that is true, then why would it be impossible to build a light that was just as good as them for cheaper? Are you saying that it is possible to build a better light for cheaper than they charge, but it would be impossible to replicate exactly their light for cheaper than they charge? It just seems to me that you are agreeing and disagreeing with me by stating the exact same thing that I stated.

 

[Abiqua]

I never said they cost less DIY light, some aspects might cost less, but each light is different in its own regard. Most however have superior efficiency in terms of converting ee to power/heat.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Its not as large a profit margin as you think, mang.....The parts alone even at wholesale are probably 50% of retail cost even, not exactly a model for maximum profit.

Plus Supra actually is using SUPERIOR components to even those quality panel builds.

What are these "superior" components of which you speak?

i have been away for a little while
i see the thread at the top of new posts list, i have to admit i got a little excited , i thought for a second blue font was back

is there any news on blue font, is he still awol ?

Hahaha

 

[Abiqua]

What are these "superior" components of which you speak?



Hahaha

Ok, caught me, my bad. I meant, that the diodes he is using usually have higher percentages of turning ee into power vs. heat.

 

[AquariusPanta]

I never said they cost less DIY light, some aspects might cost less, but each light is different in its own regard. Most however have superior efficiency in terms of converting ee to power/heat.

May I add that building your own custom COB/LED fixtures is a fucking blast!!! It's like building your own personal miniature Sun for your ladies!!!

I'd be building like the madman @stardustsailor, crafting my own knowledgable expertise, if I had a legitimate reason to, like earning profit or using the lights for something productive.

However, at this time, I've got enough on my plate or, better yet, too little of a plate .

Ok, caught me, my bad. I meant, that the diodes he is using are usually have higher percentages of turning ee into power vs. heat.

This is true; @SupraSPL has a knack for efficiency.

 

[Abiqua]

Yes, I have spent hours and hours of research on this topic because I want to be 100% certain that when i invest I invest in the correct thing. However, I'm a bit confused so let me get this straight. We both agree that Supra's lights are better, because they use superior tech and cost less.The corollary to this is that the other lights use parts that are both more expensive, and of inferior quality. If that is true, then why would it be impossible to build a light that was just as good as them for cheaper? Are you saying that it is possible to build a better light for cheaper than they charge, but it would be impossible to replicate exactly their light for cheaper than they charge? It just seems to me that you are agreeing and disagreeing with me by stating the exact same thing that I stated.

May I add that building your own custom COB/LED fixtures is a fucking blast!!! It's like building your own personal miniature Sun for your ladies!!!

I'd be building like the madman @stardustsailor, crafting my own knowledgable expertise, if I had a legitimate reason to, like earning profit or using the lights for something productive.

However, at this time, I've got enough on my plate or, better yet, too little of a plate .

Agree, after using shitty leds for a while now, it is refreshing to get to step into the Vero/CXA world and see what all the fuss is about.....

 

[Abiqua]

Are you saying that it is possible to build a better light for cheaper than they charge, but it would be impossible to replicate exactly their light for cheaper than they charge?

.

Yes, due to a # of factors. Having a die cut case made for a single light for example. Might be 25% of your budget for a DIY build, that doesn't make sense. When A51 for instance probably has them made for pennies on the dollar. Little parts, odds and ends, soldering irons, it all adds up. Usually you can make a comparable to slightly cheaper light with greater efficiency and known spectrum thru the DIY route.

 

[az2000]

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Platinum-P300-11-band-Grow/dp/B00NTBS91Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1418271700&sr=8-4&keywords=led grow light
I traded some meds for one of these and a 400w version. They seem to be working good so I'm thinking of adding more. Are these good brands? What about apollo? They are cheaper but is does that mean they are inferior? I'm new to led's and have no idea what to look for.

I wouldn't buy that PlatinumLED light. The way they use the word "Advanced" and the same photos as the real Advanced LED lights, it seems like they're intentionally trying to deceive. From what I've read, AdvancedLED isn't a rebranded Chinese import. On the other hand, these "Advanced" lights from Platinum are.

I just wouldn't do business with anyone who does business like that.

I bought a custom Apollo4 from AliExpress seller "Thunder Lighting." It was $150 delivered. I told them to build it with:

7% 1x IR 730
60% 9x deep red 660
13% 2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
- 7% 1x white 3350k (3200-3500k)
- 13% 2x white 6000k (5500-6500k)

It grows ok, but puts out some heat. The spectrum is based upon Grow Northern's Rebel module.

For $150 you can't go wrong. But, I'd recommend spending that money on Cree lightbulbs sold at Home Depot. (<<link). I'm making a fixture right now for the PAR38 spots. I'll update that link at some point. But, $100 spent on 80w of that as top-down light, and $50 spent on A19/BR30 side light would be better than the $150 for the Apollo.

But, the Apollo will grow. An Apollo and four A19s as sidelight would work very well.

 

[captainmorgan]

Prices are falling when it comes to newer LED tech based on output per watt. Have you heard of Moore's Law for computer tech,something similar is happening in LED tech. The production costs are falling and the efficiencies are going up dramatically with each new generation. COBs are top dog now but Area 51 and Onyx are building lights right now with Cree XP-L's for next years lights and we'll soon see how they do vs the best COBs.

 

[AquariusPanta]

I wouldn't buy that PlatinumLED light. The way they use the word "Advanced" and the same photos as the real Advanced LED lights, it seems like they're intentionally trying to deceive. From what I've read, AdvancedLED isn't a rebranded Chinese import. On the other hand, these "Advanced" lights from Platinum are.

I just wouldn't do business with anyone who does business like that.

I bought a custom Apollo4 from AliExpress seller "Thunder Lighting." It was $150 delivered. I told them to build it with:

7% 1x IR 730
60% 9x deep red 660
13% 2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
- 7% 1x white 3350k (3200-3500k)
- 13% 2x white 6000k (5500-6500k)

It grows ok, but puts out some heat. The spectrum is based upon Grow Northern's Rebel module.

For $150 you can't go wrong. But, I'd recommend spending that money on Cree lightbulbs sold at Home Depot. (<<link). I'm making a fixture right now for the PAR38 spots. I'll update that link at some point. But, $100 spent on 80w of that as top-down light, and $50 spent on A19/BR30 side light would be better than the $150 for the Apollo.

But, the Apollo will grow. An Apollo and four A19s as sidelight would work very well.

The spectrum layout heavily resembles the BlackStar V2 240W Flowering fixture. It puts out some heat as well.

 

[az2000]

The corollary to this is that the other lights use parts that are both more expensive, and of inferior quality. If that is true, then why would it be impossible to build a light that was just as good as them for cheaper?

Have you asked Supra? Maybe he builds them as a service to the community (those who can't DIY) as time allows? Will he accept any volume of orders?

I got the impression he was just helping people out in his spare time. If he's making a profit such that it could be a going concern (he would accept growing order volume, hire staff, etc.) it would be interesting to hear how he'd address what you perceive to be a paradox.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Prices are falling when it comes to newer LED tech based on output per watt. Have you heard of Moore's Law for computer tech,something similar is happening in LED tech. The production costs are falling and the efficiencies are going up dramatically with each new generation. COBs are top dog now but Area 51 and Onyx are building lights right now with Cree XP-L's for next years lights and we'll soon see how they do vs the best COBs.

I'm a firm believer that a little ketchup and a little mustard does a hotdog good. Same goes for a hamburger, a cheeseburger, french fries. It's all based on taste really.

 

[az2000]

The spectrum layout heavily resembles the BlackStar V2 240W Flowering fixture. It puts out some heat as well.

Blackstar's v2 flowering (UV) spectrum is:

60% 36x deep red 660nm
27% 16x red 630,
7% 4x blue 425nm
7% 4x white: 12000k

Grow Northern's Rebel (recreated in an Apollo) is:

7% IR 730
60% deep red 660
13% blue 450
White avg 5116k
- 7% white 3350k (3200-3500k)
- 13% white 6000k (5500-6500k)

I own both and the Blackstar is much more purple'ish. The Apollo copy of a GN Rebel produces a whiter, more balanced appearance. I don't know why. More blues?