Official 'FUCK THE POLICE' Thread. (Examples of Police Brutality)
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Being a hardass is not the same as police brutality and assault. There's no contradiction.
You seemed to have ignored the part where I said that (even though you quoted me directly saying it).
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Can you explain the distinction without commenting on such generic things as "they have a hard job, they have to act tough" or "if they weren't such a hardass they wouldn't survive"?
Can you tell me why a police officer has to racially profile, why they have to protect the blue code of silence, why they don't get promoted unless they fill their quota, etc.. ?
seriously? Is your problem with authority so extreme that you can't understand the difference without having someone spell it out for you?
If a cop never gives warnings but makes arrest for every crime (big or small) they see = hardass.
If a cop beats the living shit out of someone for breaking the law = brutality.
Getting arrested for being stupid and trying to harass the police =/= police brutality no matter how much you want to believe it.
This "code of silence" that you're referring to is abuse of power and no its not right. I get it, and if I were in the same situation I would do what I could to protect those I cared about (Just like every one else), but understanding it doesn't make it right.
Racial profiling is not right, but if you throw the race card every time a cop looks at you... they might not be the only ones in the wrong.
The quota system is what it is. Quota's exist simply to prevent cops from being to lenient. I mean would you promote someone who never did their job? If cops ran around letting everyone off with warnings then there would be no point in having the police to begin with?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where the hostility of tone in your post is coming from, I was just asking questions for clarification. If you're familiar with this section, it's such tones we could often do without to improve the quality of the site, so keep that in mind for any future posts
It's not illegal to "be stupid". "Harassing the police" or "obstruction of justice" has many times been used as justification to eliminate the threat of a citizen filming the encounter, effectively eliminating any wrongdoing committed by the officer. The SCOTUS has ruled it is not illegal, in any situation, to film the police on public grounds. IMO, all police should wear audio and video recording to ensure no abuses of power take place, these requests have consistently been met with opposition from police departments across the country.
Therefore, any attempt by police to limit or eliminate audio or video evidence is police brutality.
You get it, it's not right, but you would still do it if you were a cop..
I'm not really sure how to respond to that.. Do you see nothing wrong with your response?
"It's not right, but here's a justification for why it is.."
Wat?
Excellent argument, you've convinced me!
The quota system is designed to extract money from otherwise law abiding citizens for the sole purpose of building up the police forces to combat that community. Nothing more. It doesn't prevent crime, it doesn't minimize crime, it doesn't ensure crimes are handled more efficiently or more cost effectively. It simply ensures more regular people spend more money paying for unjustified citations accrued via victimless crimes.
Dare I say it?
FUCK THE POLICE!
First off don't ever threaten me, there was no hostility in what I said (though a bit condescending). I was pointing out an observation that is very true. You're jaded or just have no respect for authority, and that's fine. That's your problem to deal with but making threats because you don't like hearing the truth will get you no where, and it's not something that I take lightly.
Harassing the police is a crime. It's called "disrupting the peace". You can try to justify it all you want, but if you get arrested because you feel the urge to get in the face and challenge authority at every turn it's on you and not the cops that put you away.
Here's a tip. Next time a cop tells you not to do something instead of fighting and challenging them for no reason other then they're cops, try a simple "yes sir" and move on. Bet the cop will be more willing to work with you, and even willing to let you slide on certain things. It's about manipulation. They have their game and we have ours. Some cops are just assholes and there's nothing to be done about it. For others a bit of respect (even if it's fake) will get you a long way.
from Websters dictionary the definition of brutality.
"bru·tal·i·ty
bro͞oˈtalitē/
noun
- savage physical violence; great cruelty."
I also said "just like anyone else". You keep leaving things out, only bringing up half of what I say. Why is that?
Everyone single one of us have lied to authority to protect ourselves or people that we care about. If we had more power to get away with what we want, you can't honestly believe that you or anyone here would disregard it for "honor". Again, I'm not saying it's right. I'm not justifying it. I'm simply pointing out a fact. A basic understanding of something goes a lot further in correcting it than simply outright hatred, then again that's my opinion.
I agree with cops having to wear video and audio recording equipment. But I doubt it will play in the favor of people who just have no respect for authority, but again that's just my opinion based off the "brutality" videos that pop everywhere. Disagree if you will.
Racial profiling "it's not right, just like it's not right that you pull the race card to try and get away with a crime"
If you wanna try and change my quote at least be accurate about it.
I never justified racial profiling. I said that shouting "because I'm black" every time a cop stares at you is just as wrong and racist as racial profiling. I can't clarify this anymore then I already have. If you can't grasp it by now then it's on you for not wanting to understand the difference between right and wrong.
Quota systems - It doesn't matter what I say so I won't waste my time just going to ask a simple question.
Do you honestly believe that a cops salary is based off commission where they get a percentage of each ticket they write?
farmasensist
Well-Known Member
Police in georgia had a no knock warrant so they crack the door and toss a flash bang. It lands in a kids crib and he is sent to the hospital with a 50% chance to live. The person they were looking for wasn't even there but it's ok because they were following procedures.
This might not count as police brutality because im assuming it was an accident but it really showed how dangerous poorly trained and militarized police can be when judges are rubber stamping warrants and no one is held accountable when things go wrong. The kid got out of the hospital today or yesterday and the family is suing.
I doubt anyone will go to jail. the news kept stressing that they will decide if CRIMINAL action was made. If i blew up kids face so i could kidnap a person and steal his meth it would be criminal action even if i had a piece of paper with some guys signature on it. This kid is lucky he didnt die like the 7 year old girl in detroit that got lit up by an MP5 while she wassleeping on the couch.
This might not count as police brutality because im assuming it was an accident but it really showed how dangerous poorly trained and militarized police can be when judges are rubber stamping warrants and no one is held accountable when things go wrong. The kid got out of the hospital today or yesterday and the family is suing.
I doubt anyone will go to jail. the news kept stressing that they will decide if CRIMINAL action was made. If i blew up kids face so i could kidnap a person and steal his meth it would be criminal action even if i had a piece of paper with some guys signature on it. This kid is lucky he didnt die like the 7 year old girl in detroit that got lit up by an MP5 while she wassleeping on the couch.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
We have a long way to go before the police in this country can be reasonably considered 'public servants.' They serve the monied elite, the status quo.
They aren't too be trusted because they aren't trustworthy; their own training manuals advise on tactics to fool citizens into giving up their constitutional rights, why would someone trained like that have any respect for the rest of their rights?
Cops need to be held publicly accountable for their actions and consequences. To suggest otherwise is quite simply to advocate for fascism.
They aren't too be trusted because they aren't trustworthy; their own training manuals advise on tactics to fool citizens into giving up their constitutional rights, why would someone trained like that have any respect for the rest of their rights?
Cops need to be held publicly accountable for their actions and consequences. To suggest otherwise is quite simply to advocate for fascism.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I didn't threaten you, I told you the tone of your previous post is something this site, and particularly this section could do without
Interesting you would frame it in a false dichotomy. I'm either jaded or have no respect for police. That's it. Those are the only two options available..
Except if you read the thread, you would probably have a much different opinion.. I've clearly stated in this thread that "FUCK THE POLICE!" doesn't include all of them, as I don't believe all police are corrupt, just the institution;
Was this guy "disrupting the peace"?
And I'm the one who is jaded..
If a cop racially profiles (stop and frisk), and more than 80% of the time doesn't charge, what kind of a message do you think that sends to minorities?
You don't like that I'm not blindly hating the cops so now you think that I don't belong here? Yeah that plays well into your side of the argument. Sarcasm is not hostility just like an arrest is not brutality.
Well since the video takes place after the conflict starts and the first thing you see is the guy in red swinging on the police.... it's doesn't play well in the accused favor. Now if they were to actually film how it started I might think differently, or feel the need to watch past the first punch (actually I think he was shoving the cops but still)
... okay decided to watch the video all the way through... The guy was swinging on cops, pushing them around, struggling to break free, at one point it looks like he stole a baton, and you seriously think this guy was in the right? The closest thing that I saw to brutality was the female officer took a couple of swings with her stick and that was after the guy had already thrown a few punches and tried bolt for the 3rd or 4th time.
Again we don't see how it started, but going off just what was filmed it really is counter productive to what you're trying to say.
Why am I jaded? You have yet to give any actual reason on why you hate the cops aside from they're cops.
I have read the thread. If not I wouldn't be posting here.
You've done nothing but blame and curse the police. So yeah deny it if you will but you give no evidence to believe that you don't have an authority problem.
Don't give me that "oh it's because I'm black" nonsense. The race card is not a get out of jail free card. It's an insult to the civil rights movement. Tell you what, once they start sicking the dogs and fire hoses on minorities again I'll believe you.
Garden Boss
Well-Known Member
Some fucking bullshit...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/officer-charged-hot-car-death-police-dog-25092254
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/officer-charged-hot-car-death-police-dog-25092254
farmasensist
Well-Known Member
why are police so fucking stupid? and they put this guy in charge of training others, WTF? If i killed a police dog that was chewing on my ass it would be murder on a cop, not a weeks paid vacation.I really wish my job would let me take a paid week off for committing murder.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
This is a response from a German police officer on Reddit regarding American police;
"One of my friends is a German police officer and they are patrolling a city of 100.000 with four officers in two cars at night."
Please ask him what city this is so I can write to his respective ministry of the interior because that is more than unusual. Maybe they have two cars in his precinct, but then they certainly have more than one precinct.
As for the topic, it's one I am very interested in and one that I have thought quite a bit about. Now, I am a police officer in Germany as well and I have never been to the US in my adult life, so my experiences come entirely from interactions with US citizens in person or online, as well as reading about the topic. This of course means you might want to take them with a grain of salt. Anyway, here are my thoughts on it:
Germany and the USA, while on the surface quite similar (both western, christian, wealthy industrial nations), are in fact vastly different culturally.
The USA is a very young nation and it was literally born out of revolution and war. The fight against an oppressive government and oppressive people has shaped and defined your nation and a distrust of government is one of the big pillars of your culture. Additionally the USA, in my opinion, has a somewhat violent and aggressive culture, some might call it a 'Wild West spirit'. I think most US citizens would generally agree with the sentiment that a 'real American' does not take any shit, stands up for himself and would rather take someone's life or give up his own than have someone tread on him or his rights ('My home is my castle', 'From my cold, dead hands').
I have found that American citizens are much more prone to support vigilante justice, even if that 'justice' comes in the form of deadly force. A while ago, I posted an article on /r/ProtectAndServe [http://np.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe] about a shooting at a courthouse in my city. A man shot and stabbed two people to death who were accused of seriously injuring the man and killing his brother in a rather shady car trafficking deal gone wrong.
I expected most people to react with the same disgust I felt at someone taking the law in his own hands like that. Instead, everyone supported the man and congratulated him on killing those two men.
I feel this comes down to the 'Wild West spirit' I mentioned before, which is also evident in your outrageous prison sentences and insane monetary compensation for suing people.
Case in point [http://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/2c7i0s/have_you_ever_experienced_cop_block_people_andor/cjcskvf] , a story about a resist I had some time ago. It gets interesting in the replies, especially here [http://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/2c7i0s/have_you_ever_experienced_cop_block_people_andor/cjd22vd] .
I feel like many Americans have a 'If they fuck up, fuck em' attitude. Did you know that the media in Germany are not allowed to show pictures of people arrested or accused of crimes, not even after they have been convicted? They aren't even allowed to print their full names. Why? Because our society feels that even someone who has commited crimes still has a right to privacy. How is someone going to reintegrate into society after their sentence is served if everyone in their city knows they have been arrested?
'If they fuck up, fuck em'. 'If they fuck up, fire em' 'If they fuck up, plaster their picture all over the evening news'. 'If they fuck up, put em in prison for the rest of their life'. 'If they fuck up, sue them for all they got (or more)'.
And of course the US' fascination with guns lays a role in your violent society, but it is not the cause. To say that would be to simplify the problem.
The guns only enhance the problem, they exponentiate it. Give a violent society the means to be even more violent and you'll end up with murder rates like in Africa's failed states or South American dictatorships.
Every US cop knows about this culture of violence, they all know about the inherent distrust of the government. They all know that the threat to their life a real one. You join the Academy and suddenly that threat seems even more real. You are more aware of stories like those officers getting shot in the head while eating lunch. You watch the video of Deputy Dinkheller dying a lonely death behind his patrol car because he hesitated instead of shooting. Your brothers are getting killed out there, every week it seems. It could be you, next time.
When I go on patrol, sure I worry about being confronted with a gun. But it's a theoretical fear. I have never even seen a live gun on the streets, even though I work in a city with one of the highest crime rates in this country. I do get confronted with violence, don't get me wrong. I've been threatened with razor blades, knives, bottles. I have been assaulted, I've been injured. I was recently on three weeks of sick leave from an injury I got during a resist.
But I do not have to assume that there is a realistic chance that a good part of the people I'll meet today are armed with firearms and that a part of those are actually willing to kill me to get away.
Another reason for that is the difference in prison sentences. If I was a drug dealer in the US and I had 20 pounds of coke in my trunk when a cop stops me for a broken taillight, I'd seriously calculate my chances of killing him and getting away. There is simply no reason for me to do that in Germany. The prison sentences are laughable here. It's just not worth it. If they arrest me with the coke here, I do two, maybe three years. If I kill a cop, I get 15 years minimum. It's just not worth it. And while I, just as many other officers in Germany, get frustrated with the lax prison sentences, I do realize that they are a big part of what makes my job so safe compared to the US. Almost all of the people that do get shot by the Police in Germany are mentally unstable, hardly any of them are real criminals.
Any US officer grew up in this culture. In Germany, if I was searching for someone who I was told had a gun and I'd find someone matching the description and he started reaching in his waistband, I wouldn't shoot him. I'd wait until I actually saw the gun. Simply because the chance that he actually has a real gun is so, so low. If I was an officer in the US and I had grown up there, that guy'd be dead as soon as he reached.
Another thing is that officers here always ride in pairs, everywhere. If I was in rural bumfuck, Alabama and I had to stop a car in the dead of night in the middle of nowhere, you can bet your ass I'd have my gun out as soon as I left my car.
I do think that our mental healthcare system here is better. Police officers can forcibly commit anyone to a psychiatric facility for 24 hours if they feel he is a threat to himself or others. And free healthcare makes it easy for people to go see a doctor if they feel they have mental problems. Plus if they do lose it, it's much harder for them to get a gun. But of course some of them do slip through the cracks, as I mentioned above, most people who do get shot by the police here are mentally unstable.
And I'm not entirely sure why (it probably has to do with WWII, as does almost anything in the modern German society), but police officers here will do most anything to avoid shooting someone. A few years ago on new years eve, there was a guy trying to commit suicide by cop in my city. He pulled a gun on an officer and yelled that he'd kill her. What did she do? She withdrew behind a car, tried to convince him to put the gun down, fired a warning shot and only when he actually aimed the gun at her did she shoot. One shot, in the leg. And they arrested him alive.
I am not trying to make the officers here look more heroic or the one's in the US look like bloodthirsty killers. It is different societies.
Remember: Everyone is shaped by their enviroment and the culture and society they grow up in. And it's easy to blame the violent and militant US cops for the amount of shootings, but I'm sure most of you American citizens would react exactly the same in their position.
tl;dr: No tl;dr, this took me a lot of time to write, you can take a bit of time to read it goddamnit!
http://np.reddit.com/r/AskLEO/comments/2dgwkp/what_makes_american_police_use_deadly_force_much/cjpgcbe
"One of my friends is a German police officer and they are patrolling a city of 100.000 with four officers in two cars at night."
Please ask him what city this is so I can write to his respective ministry of the interior because that is more than unusual. Maybe they have two cars in his precinct, but then they certainly have more than one precinct.
As for the topic, it's one I am very interested in and one that I have thought quite a bit about. Now, I am a police officer in Germany as well and I have never been to the US in my adult life, so my experiences come entirely from interactions with US citizens in person or online, as well as reading about the topic. This of course means you might want to take them with a grain of salt. Anyway, here are my thoughts on it:
Germany and the USA, while on the surface quite similar (both western, christian, wealthy industrial nations), are in fact vastly different culturally.
The USA is a very young nation and it was literally born out of revolution and war. The fight against an oppressive government and oppressive people has shaped and defined your nation and a distrust of government is one of the big pillars of your culture. Additionally the USA, in my opinion, has a somewhat violent and aggressive culture, some might call it a 'Wild West spirit'. I think most US citizens would generally agree with the sentiment that a 'real American' does not take any shit, stands up for himself and would rather take someone's life or give up his own than have someone tread on him or his rights ('My home is my castle', 'From my cold, dead hands').
I have found that American citizens are much more prone to support vigilante justice, even if that 'justice' comes in the form of deadly force. A while ago, I posted an article on /r/ProtectAndServe [http://np.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe] about a shooting at a courthouse in my city. A man shot and stabbed two people to death who were accused of seriously injuring the man and killing his brother in a rather shady car trafficking deal gone wrong.
I expected most people to react with the same disgust I felt at someone taking the law in his own hands like that. Instead, everyone supported the man and congratulated him on killing those two men.
I feel this comes down to the 'Wild West spirit' I mentioned before, which is also evident in your outrageous prison sentences and insane monetary compensation for suing people.
Case in point [http://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/2c7i0s/have_you_ever_experienced_cop_block_people_andor/cjcskvf] , a story about a resist I had some time ago. It gets interesting in the replies, especially here [http://www.reddit.com/r/ProtectAndServe/comments/2c7i0s/have_you_ever_experienced_cop_block_people_andor/cjd22vd] .
I feel like many Americans have a 'If they fuck up, fuck em' attitude. Did you know that the media in Germany are not allowed to show pictures of people arrested or accused of crimes, not even after they have been convicted? They aren't even allowed to print their full names. Why? Because our society feels that even someone who has commited crimes still has a right to privacy. How is someone going to reintegrate into society after their sentence is served if everyone in their city knows they have been arrested?
'If they fuck up, fuck em'. 'If they fuck up, fire em' 'If they fuck up, plaster their picture all over the evening news'. 'If they fuck up, put em in prison for the rest of their life'. 'If they fuck up, sue them for all they got (or more)'.
And of course the US' fascination with guns lays a role in your violent society, but it is not the cause. To say that would be to simplify the problem.
The guns only enhance the problem, they exponentiate it. Give a violent society the means to be even more violent and you'll end up with murder rates like in Africa's failed states or South American dictatorships.
Every US cop knows about this culture of violence, they all know about the inherent distrust of the government. They all know that the threat to their life a real one. You join the Academy and suddenly that threat seems even more real. You are more aware of stories like those officers getting shot in the head while eating lunch. You watch the video of Deputy Dinkheller dying a lonely death behind his patrol car because he hesitated instead of shooting. Your brothers are getting killed out there, every week it seems. It could be you, next time.
When I go on patrol, sure I worry about being confronted with a gun. But it's a theoretical fear. I have never even seen a live gun on the streets, even though I work in a city with one of the highest crime rates in this country. I do get confronted with violence, don't get me wrong. I've been threatened with razor blades, knives, bottles. I have been assaulted, I've been injured. I was recently on three weeks of sick leave from an injury I got during a resist.
But I do not have to assume that there is a realistic chance that a good part of the people I'll meet today are armed with firearms and that a part of those are actually willing to kill me to get away.
Another reason for that is the difference in prison sentences. If I was a drug dealer in the US and I had 20 pounds of coke in my trunk when a cop stops me for a broken taillight, I'd seriously calculate my chances of killing him and getting away. There is simply no reason for me to do that in Germany. The prison sentences are laughable here. It's just not worth it. If they arrest me with the coke here, I do two, maybe three years. If I kill a cop, I get 15 years minimum. It's just not worth it. And while I, just as many other officers in Germany, get frustrated with the lax prison sentences, I do realize that they are a big part of what makes my job so safe compared to the US. Almost all of the people that do get shot by the Police in Germany are mentally unstable, hardly any of them are real criminals.
Any US officer grew up in this culture. In Germany, if I was searching for someone who I was told had a gun and I'd find someone matching the description and he started reaching in his waistband, I wouldn't shoot him. I'd wait until I actually saw the gun. Simply because the chance that he actually has a real gun is so, so low. If I was an officer in the US and I had grown up there, that guy'd be dead as soon as he reached.
Another thing is that officers here always ride in pairs, everywhere. If I was in rural bumfuck, Alabama and I had to stop a car in the dead of night in the middle of nowhere, you can bet your ass I'd have my gun out as soon as I left my car.
I do think that our mental healthcare system here is better. Police officers can forcibly commit anyone to a psychiatric facility for 24 hours if they feel he is a threat to himself or others. And free healthcare makes it easy for people to go see a doctor if they feel they have mental problems. Plus if they do lose it, it's much harder for them to get a gun. But of course some of them do slip through the cracks, as I mentioned above, most people who do get shot by the police here are mentally unstable.
And I'm not entirely sure why (it probably has to do with WWII, as does almost anything in the modern German society), but police officers here will do most anything to avoid shooting someone. A few years ago on new years eve, there was a guy trying to commit suicide by cop in my city. He pulled a gun on an officer and yelled that he'd kill her. What did she do? She withdrew behind a car, tried to convince him to put the gun down, fired a warning shot and only when he actually aimed the gun at her did she shoot. One shot, in the leg. And they arrested him alive.
I am not trying to make the officers here look more heroic or the one's in the US look like bloodthirsty killers. It is different societies.
Remember: Everyone is shaped by their enviroment and the culture and society they grow up in. And it's easy to blame the violent and militant US cops for the amount of shootings, but I'm sure most of you American citizens would react exactly the same in their position.
tl;dr: No tl;dr, this took me a lot of time to write, you can take a bit of time to read it goddamnit!
http://np.reddit.com/r/AskLEO/comments/2dgwkp/what_makes_american_police_use_deadly_force_much/cjpgcbe
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Cop got suspended without pay for this incident. That's it..
Commander Strax
Well-Known Member
I treat cops like bees....cuz they are armed
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Man Threatens Suicide, Police Kill Him
"Denise Way, Justin’s mom, said the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t—so they shot him because ‘That’s what we do.’”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/28/man-calls-suicide-line-police-kill-him.html
Anybody else feel like something is stirring?
"Denise Way, Justin’s mom, said the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t—so they shot him because ‘That’s what we do.’”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/28/man-calls-suicide-line-police-kill-him.html
Anybody else feel like something is stirring?
