Yes!.....Cheerios to go non-GMO......

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Canna Sylvan said:
Amygdalin only metabolises into a similar compound as 6% cyanide. That's like calling theobromide, caffeine.
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Theobromine and caffeine are distinct by a methylene on nitrogen 1.

"into a similar compound as 6% cyanide" is too sloppy an expression to have meaning. In other words ... it doesn't even have the virtue of being wrong.
 
Canna Sylvan

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Theobromine and caffeine are distinct by a methylene on nitrogen 1.

"into a similar compound as 6% cyanide" is too sloppy an expression to have meaning. In other words ... it doesn't even have the virtue of being wrong.
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50mg of amygdalin would have a similar effect of 3mg of pure cyanide. They aren't anything the same. amygdalin can't absorb through the skin like cyanide for one.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Canna Sylvan said:
50mg of amygdalin would have a similar effect of 3mg of pure cyanide. They aren't anything the same. amygdalin can't absorb through the skin like cyanide for one.
Click to expand...
None of that changes the fact that the toxic principle of fruit stones and their extracts is cyanide released by metabolism of cyanogenic glycosides, notably amygdalin. (n.b. this was the Dr's mistake and not yours.)

The metabolism is mediated by ß-glucosidase in the small intestine. Thus amygdalin poisoning has the sly property of needing time for the dose to appear in the intestinal lumen before timed release of the actual poison occurs. Direct cyanide poisoning is usually much quicker to appear, and to be resolved by timely intervention.
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
Why is GMO Bad,because its not natural?

What are the health risks of GMO products.

I can say I disprove of Monsanto trying to copyright organic life. However GMO brings so many benefits to the table, increasing crop yields and lowering prices.



Would you be saying the same thing if Monsanto had GMO MJ with huge yields with high potency with resistance to pests and diseases.







IMO this debate would be similar to the first human using non-organic fertilizers.

Oh that's not natural, but it increases yield and lowers price.

How many of you use supplements in addition to just "compost"
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
RyanTheRhino said:
Why is GMO Bad,because its not natural?

What are the health risks of GMO products.

I can say I disprove of Monsanto trying to copyright organic life. However GMO brings so many benefits to the table, increasing crop yields and lowering prices.



Would you be saying the same thing if Monsanto had GMO MJ with huge yields with high potency with resistance to pests and diseases.







IMO this debate would be similar to the first human using non-organic fertilizers.

Oh that's not natural, but it increases yield and lowers price.

How many of you use supplements in addition to just "compost"
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Absolutely! Fuck Monsanto!!!
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
RyanTheRhino said:
Why is GMO Bad,because its not natural?

What are the health risks of GMO products.

I can say I disprove of Monsanto trying to copyright organic life. However GMO brings so many benefits to the table, increasing crop yields and lowering prices.



Would you be saying the same thing if Monsanto had GMO MJ with huge yields with high potency with resistance to pests and diseases.







IMO this debate would be similar to the first human using non-organic fertilizers.

Oh that's not natural, but it increases yield and lowers price.

How many of you use supplements in addition to just "compost"
Click to expand...

Non-organic fertilizers are a long term problem, you know that as well as I. Salt deposits to say nothing of anything else.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Perhaps I was focusing on the differences and not the commonalities.
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i can never remember which one is almondy, aresenic or cyanide.

either way, poison is still poison, even if you use the wrong one.

the point remains, POISON in your wheaties is not a good thing, or even a neutral thing, thus it should be labeled, while using a different type of wheat (which is still WHEAT) in your wheaties should NOT require a big scary warning label, or a 16 page Drug Information foldout under the boxtop.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Dr Kynes said:
i can never remember which one is almondy, aresenic or cyanide.

either way, poison is still poison, even if you use the wrong one.

the point remains, POISON in your wheaties is not a good thing, or even a neutral thing, thus it should be labeled, while using a different type of wheat (which is still WHEAT) in your wheaties should NOT require a big scary warning label, or a 16 page Drug Information foldout under the boxtop.
Click to expand...
that is NO attitude to have when approaching the fine art of Darwinian Supplementation. "Poisoner" is So judgmental; don't you think?
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
It's a Meta study, did you read it?
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read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles-Éric_Séralini

then, before you read the "study" cited, look at the "references":
  1. EFSA: Safety and nutritional assessment of GM plants and derived food and feed: the role of animal feeding trials.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2008, 46:S2-70.
  2. Séralini GE, Cellier D, Spiroux J: New analysis of a rat feeding study with a genetically modified maize reveals signs of hepatorenal toxicity.

    Arch Environ Contam Toxicol 2007, 52:596-602. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  3. Séralini GE: Comment on Transgenic aubergines put on ice.

    Naturenews 2009.
  4. Séralini GE, Spiroux J, Cellier D, Sultan C, Buiatti M, Gallagher L, Antoniou M, Dronamraju KR: How subchronic and chronic health effects can be neglected for GMOs, pesticides or chemicals.

    Int J Biol Sci 2009, 5:438-443. PubMed Abstract | PubMed Central Full Text
  5. Spiroux J, Roullier F, Cellier D, Séralini GE: A comparison of the effects of three GM corn varieties on mammalian health.

    Int J Biol Sci 2009, 5:706-726. PubMed Abstract | PubMed Central Full Text
  6. Spiroux J, Cellier D, Vélot C, Clair E, Mesnage R, Séralini GE: Debate on GMOs health risks after statistical findings in regulatory tests.

    Int J Biol Sci 2010, 6:590-598. PubMed Abstract | PubMed Central Full Text
  7. James C: Global Status of Commercialized Biotech/GM Crops.
    ISAAA Brief 41 2009.
  8. Vom Saal FS, Hughes C: An extensive new literature concerning low-dose effects of bisphenol A shows the need for a new risk assessment.
    Environ Health Perspect 2005, 113:926-933. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  9. Myers JP, vom Saal FS, Akingbemi BT, Arizono K, Belcher S, Colborn T, Chahoud I, Crain DA, Farabollini F, Guillette LJ Jr, Hassold T, Ho SM, Hunt PA, Iguchi T, Jobling S, Kanno J, Laufer H, Marcus M, McLachlan JA, Nadal A, Oehlmann J, Olea N, Palanza P, Parmigiani S, Rubin BS, Schoenfelder G, Sonnenschein C, Soto AM, Talsness CE, Taylor JA, Vandenberg LN, Vandenbergh JG, Vogel S, Watson CS, Welshons WV, Zoeller RT: Why public health agencies cannot depend on good laboratory practices as a criterion for selecting data: the case of bisphenol A.
    Environ Health Perspect 2009, 117:309-315. PubMed Abstract | PubMed Central Full Text

  10. Séralini GE: Ces OGM qui changent le monde. France: Flammarion; 2004.

  11. EFSA: Modification of the residue definition of glyphosate in genetically modified maize grain and soybeans, and in products of animal origin on request from the European Commission.
    EFSA Journal 2009, 7:42.
  12. Rosati A, Bogani P, Santarlasci A, Buiatti M: Characterisation of 3' transgene insertion site and derived mRNAs in MON810 YieldGard maize.
    Plant Mol Biol 2008, 67:271-81. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  13. Manetti C, Bianchetti C, Casciani L, Castro C, Di Cocco ME, Miccheli A, Motto M, Conti F: A metabonomic study of transgenic maize (Zea mays) seeds revealed variations in osmolytes and branched amino acids.
    J Exp Bot 2006, 57:2613-2625. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  14. Zhu Y, Li D, Wang F, Yin J, Jin H: Nutritional assessment and fate of DNA of soybean meal from roundup ready or conventional soybeans using rats.

    Arch Anim Nutr 2004, 58:295-310. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  15. Vecchio L, Cisterna B, Malatesta M, Martin TE, Biggiogera M: Ultrastructural analysis of testes from mice fed on genetically modified soybean.
    Eur J Histochem 2004, 48:448-454. PubMed Abstract
  16. Kilic A, Akay MT: A three generation study with genetically modified Bt corn in rats: biochemical and histopathological investigation.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2008, 46:1164-1170. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  17. Malatesta M, Caporaloni C, Gavaudan S, Rocchi MB, Serafini S, Tiberi C, Gazzanelli G: Ultrastructural morphometrical and immunocytochemical analyses of hepatocyte nuclei from mice fed on genetically modified soybean.
    Cell Struct Funct 2002, 27:173-180. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  18. Malatesta M, Perdoni F, Santin G, Battistelli S, Muller S, Biggiogera M: Hepatoma tissue culture (HTC) cells as a model for investigating the effects of low concentrations of herbicide on cell structure and function.
    Toxicol In Vitro 2008, 22:1853-1860. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  19. Malatesta M, Tiberi C, Baldelli B, Battistelli S, Manuali E, Biggiogera M: Reversibility of hepatocyte nuclear modifications in mice fed on genetically modified soybean.
    Eur J Histochem 2005, 49:237-242. PubMed Abstract
  20. Arregui MC, Lenardon A, Sanchez D, Maitre MI, Scotta R, Enrique S: Monitoring glyphosate residues in transgenic glyphosate-resistant soybean.
    Pest Manag Sci 2004, 60:163-166. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  21. Richard S, Moslemi S, Sipahutar H, Benachour N, Séralini GE: Differential effects of glyphosate and roundup on human placental cells and aromatase.

    Environ Health Perspect 2005, 113:716-720. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  22. Benachour N, Sipahutar H, Moslemi S, Gasnier C, Travert C, Séralini GE: Time- and dose-dependent effects of roundup on human embryonic and placental cells.

    Arch Environ Contam Toxicol 2007, 53:126-133. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  23. Benachour N,Séralini GE : Glyphosate formulations induce apoptosis and necrosis in human umbilical, embryonic, and placental cells.

    Chem Res Toxicol 2009, 22:97-105. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  24. Gasnier C, Dumont C, Benachour N, Clair E, Chagnon MC, Séralini GE: Glyphosate-based herbicides are toxic and endocrine disruptors in human cell lines.

    Toxicology 2009, 262:184-191. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  25. Hammond B, Lemen J, Dudek R, Ward D, Jiang C, Nemeth M, Burns J: Results of a 90-day safety assurance study with rats fed grain from corn rootworm-protected corn.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2006, 44:147-160. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  26. Braniste V, Jouault A, Gaultier E, Polizzi A, Buisson-Brenac C, Leveque M, Martin PG, Theodorou V, Fioramonti J, Houdeau E: Impact of oral bisphenol A at reference doses on intestinal barrier function and sex differences after perinatal exposure in rats.
    Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 2009, 107:448-453. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  27. Braun JM, Yolton K, Dietrich KN, Hornung R, Ye X, Calafat AM, Lanphear BP: Prenatal bisphenol A exposure and early childhood behavior.
    Environ Health Perspect 2009, 117:1945-1952. PubMed Abstract | PubMed Central Full Text
  28. Anway MD, Cupp AS, Uzumcu M, Skinner MK: Epigenetic transgenerational actions of endocrine disruptors and male fertility.
    Science 2005, 308:1466-1469. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  29. Wise LA, Palmer JR, Rowlings K, Kaufman RH, Herbst AL, Noller KL, Titus-Ernstoff L, Troisi R, Hatch EE, Robboy SJ: Risk of benign gynecologic tumors in relation to prenatal diethylstilbestrol exposure.
    Obstet Gynecol 2005, 105:167-173. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  30. Hernandez AF, Casado I, Pena G, Gil F, Villanueva E, Pla A: Low level of exposure to pesticides leads to lung dysfunction in occupationally exposed subjects.
    Inhal Toxicol 2008, 20:839-849. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  31. Benachour N, Moslemi S, Sipahutar H, Séralini GE: Cytotoxic effects and aromatase inhibition by xenobiotic endocrine disrupters alone and in combination.

    Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 2007, 222:129-140. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  32. Melnick R, Lucier G, Wolfe M, Hall R, Stancel G, Prins G, Gallo M, Reuhl K, Ho SM, Brown T, Moore J, Leakey J, Haseman J, Kohn M: Summary of the National Toxicology Program's report of the endocrine disruptors low-dose peer review.
    Environ Health Perspect 2002, 110:427-431. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  33. Doull J, Gaylor D, Greim HA, Lovell DP, Lynch B, Munro IC: Report of an Expert Panel on the reanalysis by of a 90-day study conducted by Monsanto in support of the safety of a genetically modified corn variety (MON 863).
    Food Chem Toxicol 2007, 45(11):2073-85. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  34. Goldsmith JR, Kordysh E: Why dose-response relationships are often non-linear and some consequences.
    J Expo Anal Environ Epidemiol 1993, 3:259-276. PubMed Abstract
  35. Then C: Risk assessment of toxins derived from Bacillus thuringiensis-synergism, efficacy, and selectivity.
    Environ Sci Pollut Res Int 2010, 17:791-797. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  36. Paul V, Guertler P, Wiedemann S, Meyer HH: Degradation of Cry1Ab protein from genetically modified maize (MON810) in relation to total dietary feed proteins in dairy cow digestion.
    Transgenic Res 2010, 19(4):683-689. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  37. Andrade AJ, Grande SW, Talsness CE, Grote K, Chahoud I: A dose-response study following in utero and lactational exposure to di-(2-ethylhexyl)-phthalate (DEHP): non-monotonic dose-response and low dose effects on rat brain aromatase activity.
    Toxicology 2006, 227:185-192. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  38. Malatesta M, Caporaloni C, Rossi L, Battistelli S, Rocchi MB, Tonucci F, Gazzanelli G: Ultrastructural analysis of pancreatic acinar cells from mice fed on genetically modified soybean.
    J Anat 2002, 201:409-415. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text | PubMed Central Full Text
  39. Malatesta M, Biggiogera M, Manuali E, Rocchi MB, Baldelli B, Gazzanelli G: Fine structural analyses of pancreatic acinar cell nuclei from mice fed on genetically modified soybean.
    Eur J Histochem 2003, 47:385-388. PubMed Abstract
  40. Appenzeller LM, Munley SM, Hoban D, Sykes GP, Malley LA, Delaney B: Subchronic feeding study of herbicide-tolerant soybean DP-356O43-5 in Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2008, 46:2201-2213. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  41. Sakamoto Y, Tada Y, Fukumori N, Tayama K, Ando H, Takahashi H, Kubo Y, Nagasawa A, Yano N, Yuzawa K, Ogata A: A 104-week feeding study of genetically modified soybeans in f344 rats.
    Shokuhin Eiseigaku Zasshi 2008, 49:272-282. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  42. Appenzeller LM, Munley SM, Hoban D, Sykes GP, Malley LA, Delaney B: Subchronic feeding study of grain from herbicide-tolerant maize DP-O9814O-6 in Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2009, 47:2269-2280. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  43. Hammond B, Dudek R, Lemen J, Nemeth M: Results of a 13 week safety assurance study with rats fed grain from glyphosate tolerant corn.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2004, 42:1003-1014. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  44. Hammond BG, Dudek R, Lemen JK, Nemeth MA: Results of a 90-day safety assurance study with rats fed grain from corn borer-protected corn.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2006, 44:1092-1099. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  45. MacKenzie SA, Lamb I, Schmidt J, Deege L, Morrisey MJ, Harper M, Layton RJ, Prochaska LM, Sanders C, Locke M, Mattsson JL, Fuentes A, Delaney B: Thirteen week feeding study with transgenic maize grain containing event DAS-O15O7-1 in Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2007, 45:551-562. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  46. He XY, Huang KL, Li X, Qin W, Delaney B, Luo YB: Comparison of grain from corn rootworm resistant transgenic DAS-59122-7 maize with non-transgenic maize grain in a 90-day feeding study in Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2008, 46:1994-2002. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  47. Malley LA, Everds NE, Reynolds J, Mann PC, Lamb I, Rood T, Schmidt J, Layton RJ, Prochaska LM, Hinds M, Locke M, Chui CF, Claussen F, Mattsson JL, Delaney B: Subchronic feeding study of DAS-59122-7 maize grain in Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2007, 45:1277-1292. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
  48. Appenzeller LM, Malley L, Mackenzie SA, Hoban D, Delaney B: Subchronic feeding study with genetically modified stacked trait lepidopteran and coleopteran resistant (DAS-O15O7-1xDAS-59122-7) maize grain in Sprague-Dawley rats.
    Food Chem Toxicol 2009, 47:1512-1520. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text
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then check out a randomly selected source, chosen for no reason beyond NOT having serelini involved in the work:

#14: Zhu Y, Li D, Wang F, Yin J, Jin H: Nutritional assessment and fate of DNA of soybean meal from roundup ready or conventional soybeans using rats.

  1. Arch Anim Nutr 2004, 58:295-310. PubMed Abstract | Publisher Full Text

    [h=2]Abstract[/h]

    This study was conducted to compare the safety of soybean meal prepared from genetically modified (GM) glyphosate-tolerant (Roundup Ready; RR) soybeans and conventional soybeans. Eighty Sprague-Dawley rats (40 males and 40 females) were randomly allotted to one of four groups according to sex and body weight for a 13-week feeding experiment. The rats were fed corn-based diets containing 60% conventional soybean meal, a mixture of 30% conventional and 30% RR soybean meal, 60% or 90% RR soybean meal. All diets were adjusted to an identical nutrient level except the 90% RR diet. The two soybean meals were similar in chemical analysis and amino acid composition. During the 13-week growth trial, body weight (P&#8202;<&#8202;0.05) and feed intake (P&#8202; <&#8202;0.05) decreased only in rats fed with 90% RR soybean meal at the first week. No treatment-related deaths occurred during the experiment. Gross necropsy findings, haematological or urinalysis values and clinical serum parameters showed no meaningful differences between rats fed the control and RR soybean meals. A 145&#8201;bp of cp4 epsps gene specific for the GM constructs from RR soybean meal or a 407&#8201;bp of lec gene from endogenous soybean DNA could not be detected in investigated masseter muscle samples. No adverse effects of glyphosate-tolerant soybean meal on rats were seen even at levels as high as 90% of the diet.
    Click to expand...
    bad science is always bad science, and a bad scientist, like serelini is always suspect.
    i dont bother reading the bullshit in Natural News dot com, Troofer chain e-mails, or bullshit from ISIS dot org either (another self-referential "scientist" who can only cite her own claims to support her claims)

    but is DID read this one, and rejected it. now i have had to read it again, so i curse you for that.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
that is NO attitude to have when approaching the fine art of Darwinian Supplementation. "Poisoner" is So judgmental; don't you think?
Click to expand...
ok ok, i'm sorry. next time ill be sure to get the right poison.

i know it's trerrible when you use the wrong one, and your victim winds up dead in TOATLLY THE WRONG WAY...

or maybe ill just use Poisson, and make them smell fishy.
 
Canna Sylvan

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
ok ok, i'm sorry. next time ill be sure to get the right poison.

i know it's trerrible when you use the wrong one, and your victim winds up dead in TOATLLY THE WRONG WAY...

or maybe ill just use Poisson, and make them smell fishy.
Click to expand...
What happens if a large portion of the population acquire a protein allergy to altered gene wheat? How do you close Pandora's box? Echy can't even get rid of a toad.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Canna Sylvan said:
What happens if a large portion of the population acquire a protein allergy to altered gene wheat? How do you close Pandora's box? Echy can't even get rid of a toad.
Click to expand...
My worry is a different one. The current strains of high-yielding wheat have been selectively bred to contain high levels of gliadin, a gluten (prolamin). This protein is digested in vivo into fragments that bind to the opioid receptors (e.g. gliadorphin) and then claimed to be absorbed in that partially-digested condition into the body. It is an intriguing hypothesis that will be difficult to research because monied interests are in play. The information I can find on this is incomplete to the point of being tantalizing, but if this is a real issue, it extends past those who are sensitive to gluten such as celiac sufferers ... to all who consume grain products and processed sugar/starch foods. Buying organic provides no shield here!
I find this hypothesis intriguing, since it could contribute to explaining the sharp rise in metabolic illnesses such as the linked triad of obesity, diabetes and heart disease.
And while this isn't genetic engineering of the cut&splice variety, I would not put it past the major ag firms (Monsanto, ADM and others) to tweak their product for the sort of addictive dysregulation that is being laid by some at the feet of purpose-bred grain crops designed to grab market share by being ... extra super yummy.
 
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