Why is there so many opinions about defoliation?

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
In this industry, or even just the artistry of cultivation, there are opinions, preferences and empirical facts. All growers should suss out the difference or at least stop the dissemination of flawed notions as expertise.
I’m gonna defoliant. I’m in a 4x4 tent and you can’t see from one side to the other I’m on week 6 my buds are nice right now I’m gonna try to get the bottom buds at least decent in the next few weeks before harvest. It will be a learning experience if nothing else. I haven’t plenty of seeds
 
I’m gonna defoliant. I’m in a 4x4 tent and you can’t see from one side to the other I’m on week 6 my buds are nice right now I’m gonna try to get the bottom buds at least decent in the next few weeks before harvest. It will be a learning experience if nothing else. I haven’t plenty of seeds
its fun!
 

pthobson

Well-Known Member
Yeah I say defoliate but I take minimal off the bottom during veg not flower and during flower if I need more light to get to a budsite I simply tuck leaves. More foliage the plant is able to absorb more light. I only prune lower, the stuff that would not be receiving any light anyways. These leaves are not beneficial anymore.
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
If you say so. A billion dollar industry strongly disagrees.

The new leaves all have one thing in common- they are serving the plant's reproductive process. Not vegetative growth. I don't grow leaves, unless you know someone buying em. I grow fruit.
An industry that grows average weed at best.

(maybe that was their goal - to control the stretch?)



"stretch" = vegetative process. not reproductive. This is a broad oversimplification, as hormones are at play.
So your plants don't stretch in flower?

In this industry, or even just the artistry of cultivation, there are opinions, preferences and empirical facts. All growers should suss out the difference or at least stop the dissemination of flawed notions as expertise.
Yep. Where is your side-by-side?
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
In this industry, or even just the artistry of cultivation, there are opinions, preferences and empirical facts. All growers should suss out the difference or at least stop the dissemination of flawed notions as expertise.
I know people like you don't put the work in so here is a side-by-side for you: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285930

Spoiler alert - the non-defoliated plants yielded almost 2x as much.
 

smokebros

Well-Known Member
I think there's a lot of differing opinions mainly because no two people have the exact same growing environments. The variances in grow styles and especially genetic lineage play a major role in how a specific plant will respond to defoliation.

Neither one is right or wrong. Personally, I tuck when I need to tuck, and pluck when I need to pluck.
 
If you grow indoors and you don't defoliate you're not gettting many viable tertiary sites. This is inarguable. Light penetration is well documented.
 
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I know people like you don't put the work in so here is a side-by-side for you: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285930

Spoiler alert - the non-defoliated plants yielded almost 2x as much.
Super scientific.

A lot of people in these marijuana forums seem to enjoy arguing opinion or preferences. Its the sign of a farmer that is limiting their own success.

Anything I said on this topic is well known, scientifically tested botany that is hundreds of years old and reaches far beyond cannabis. Take it or leave it, I really don't care. They are not my opinions or original ideas. They are the tenets of horticulture. Ask someone that grows any flower professionally or competitively. My great grandfather has a couple orchids named after him, he used these methods I espoused here. Ask anybody with a botany back round about plant hormones. Ask a professional horticulturist. Don't take my word for it. Observe nature without some weird egoic confirmation bias. The problem with pot, is that a lot of "growers" seem to think its a skill and stake their pride and persona into their cultivation. Its not a skill. Its a tradition. Its nature. Keep learning, good luck!
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
This plant was an experiment and I’m happy how it turned out. I stripped off the majority of the fans.
View attachment 4315905 View attachment 4315906

My next plant will get next to none and I’ll see how it turns out.
View attachment 4315907
Just a point here, your plant also Hermied and is full of seeds now. I wouldn't doubt at all that it could have been from striping all the leaves off.
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I really think one major issue is the over usage of incorrect terminology.

I do not support Defoliation :
defoliate
[verb dee-foh-lee-eyt; adjective dee-foh-lee-it, -eyt]
|
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR defoliate ON THESAURUS.COM
verb (used with object), de·fo·li·at·ed, de·fo·li·at·ing.
1.to strip (a tree, bush, etc.) of leaves.

2.to destroy or cause widespread loss of leaves in (an area of jungle, forest, etc.), as by usingchemical sprays or incendiary bombs, in order to deprive enemy troops or guerrilla forces ofconcealment.

de·fo·li·a·tion , noun form

I totally support pruning :
prune2
/pro͞on/
verb
gerund or present participle: pruning
  1. trim (a tree, shrub, or bush) by cutting away dead or overgrown branches or stems, especially to increase fruitfulness and growth.
    synonyms: cut back, trim, thin, thin out, pinch back, crop, clip, shear, pollard, top, dock; More
Pruning is a horticultural and silvicultural practice involving the selective removal of certain parts of a plant, such as branches, buds, or roots. Reasons to prune plants include deadwood removal, shaping (by controlling or redirecting growth), improving or sustaining health, reducing risk from falling branches, preparing nursery specimens for transplanting, and both harvesting and increasing the yield or quality of flowers and fruits.


These are 2 different things, and discussing them as the same is a part of why there are such wide opinions on this subject.
 

snoeman032

Well-Known Member
I figured this post would get a bunch of different opinions and it did. Nice to see everyone’s side of things
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Super scientific.

A lot of people in these marijuana forums seem to enjoy arguing opinion or preferences. Its the sign of a farmer that is limiting their own success.

Anything I said on this topic is well known, scientifically tested botany that is hundreds of years old and reaches far beyond cannabis. Take it or leave it, I really don't care. They are not my opinions or original ideas. They are the tenets of horticulture. Ask someone that grows any flower professionally or competitively. My great grandfather has a couple orchids named after him, he used these methods I espoused here. Ask anybody with a botany back round about plant hormones. Ask a professional horticulturist. Don't take my word for it. Observe nature without some weird egoic confirmation bias. The problem with pot, is that a lot of "growers" seem to think its a skill and stake their pride and persona into their cultivation. Its not a skill. Its a tradition. Its nature. Keep learning, good luck!
Dude, the proof is in the pudding. Yank the leaves and the plants grows more leaves at the expense of yield. Oh, and post up that 10 year old side-by-side, I'm waiting.
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Indoors, outdoors....

Doesn't matter.

More leaves under the light means bigger buds if you know what you're doing. I've been on this debate before and I don't give a damn anymore. Cut your leaves off. I don't care.

I harvest huge buds and the lower buds are rock hard as well. If people think they need to cut off all the leaves then who the hell am I to tell them they shouldn't?

I don't care if people butcher their plants.
 

Pa-Nature

Well-Known Member
I think there's a lot of differing opinions mainly because no two people have the exact same growing environments. The variances in grow styles and especially genetic lineage play a major role in how a specific plant will respond to defoliation.

Neither one is right or wrong. Personally, I tuck when I need to tuck, and pluck when I need to pluck.
if a plant is well fed it can take alot and bounce back ten fold
20 day and then day 24 they never missed a beat .infact the nugs formed quite nice .
day 20 trim.jpeg 24 days.jpeg tmp_28435-Resized_20190126_115028_667281781735341683686.jpeg
Cali-O 1.jpeg
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Um, yes you do see farmers taking the leaves off their plants. Its called harvest. Ask anyone that has grown brassicas why it is important to "pick the leaves" even if its just going to compost.

In addition to reallocating energy from foliage to fruit production, defoliation in cannabis also sends important hormonal signals to the plant that increase fruit size and potency and speed.

Defoliation should be broken down into two categories: indoor and outdoor.

Outdoor: defoliation is less important for light concerns as sunlight penetrates to the ground. Foliage helps protect plant from elements, creates suction (larger plants need more suction to deliver water and nutrients) and aid in respiration. Still, fairly liberal defoil should be considered, especially in the epicenter of the plant. But sunlight is harsh...

Indoor: foliage is largely extraneous for reproduction. The elements are under your control. Plants size reduces the imperative for suction. Artificial light does not penetrate the way sunlight does (not even close), so the imperative to facilitate light penetration becomes the driving imperative. The luxury of controlling the elements means the grower can manipulate the focus of the plant's energy to grower's designs (lots of potent fruit).

There is some validity to the gradual method of defoliation. However, the "recovery time" gradual defoliators constantly site as a reason for gradual defoliation can be completely mitigated by simply upping the plant's micronutrient regimen immediately following comprehensive defoliation.

All-at-once comprehensive defoliation is one of the most powerful methods for robust harvests, if not the single most powerful method. Defoliation can't kill the plant. Period. The only potentially "negative" side effect is that plant stores micronutrients in foliage. Easily accounted for in feeding regimen, and even if it wasn't, plants would not suffer. Grower however would suffer a slightly longer flowering period, say, 7 days.

Here's a timelapse of a comprehensive defoil:

3 a light is old .Just promoting a $500 book.
Its just showing leaves growing back.....wasted energy perhaps?

I'm all for trimming leaves and lowers but defoliating any plant before it goes dormant is a bit silly.
 
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