Why is everyone buying into this Auto-Flower and Female seed crap?

3lions

New Member
I have a few friends that were smoking in the 70's. They really hated the 80's because they said quality dropped to zero with all the garbage coming into the US from Mexico. They would tell me about the weed they were getting "10 years ago" that was awesome. Things like golds and reds. They would grow sensimilla land race Sativas. By the time I started smoking, most of "the good stuff" was Indica based strains, though some good Thai or Acapulco would surface once in a while from someone that was sustaining the pure strains.

Just be careful not to lump all cannabis from the 60's and 70's into the Mexi brick weed of the 80's. With care, even that weed could be great if one took the time to cultivate it correctly. The 4000 seeds per bag were a result of mass unmonitored growing techniques in the hills of Mex, not because of the strain itself.
Yeahh absolutely, my own point was really about the massive commercialisation, there have always been people getting the best out of strains but when it comes to the masses tis a different story. The modern strains have made it far easier for the 'average' inexperienced grower to achieve strong quality buds and that is what it is about as much as anything, easy access, not just a few stuck up people being elitist about things.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I have a few friends that were smoking in the 70's. They really hated the 80's because they said quality dropped to zero with all the garbage coming into the US from Mexico. They would tell me about the weed they were getting "10 years ago" that was awesome. Things like golds and reds. They would grow sensimilla land race Sativas. By the time I started smoking, most of "the good stuff" was Indica based strains, though some good Thai or Acapulco would surface once in a while from someone that was sustaining the pure strains.

Just be careful not to lump all cannabis from the 60's and 70's into the Mexi brick weed of the 80's. With care, even that weed could be great if one took the time to cultivate it correctly. The 4000 seeds per bag were a result of mass unmonitored growing techniques in the hills of Mex, not because of the strain itself.
That is 100% accurate, though few will accept it. I started smoking herb in 1968 and in that era there were many different Mexican strains that were really, really good.

For all the people who need to believe that Mexican strains were always terrible just do a little research and find out what went into the creation of some of the very best modern strains that people who say Mexican always was low grade but are totally in love with modern crosses. They will find that many of the very best modern strains were made using some Mexican strain or strains.

I'm sure most people have heard of Acapulco Gold and I have to believe that many of them know that it was used in many top modern crosses. Acapulco Gold is a Mexican strain. Highland Oaxaca Gold (H.O.G) was used in many different modern crosses. Highland Oaxaca Gold is a Mexican strain.

If those strains, and many others, were not high-test why in the wide, wide world of sports were they used by so many breeders and how did the results of the breeders efforts turn out to be so loved by the people today who claim Mexican strains always were bottom of the barrel? Do those people think that the indica strains used in the crosses were so incredibly potent that the breeder felt a need to cross them with Roadside Red to tame them a bit so people could handle them so they crossed them with ditch-weed? The reason breeders chose them is because they were among the best of the best. They had a mind bending high that no pure indica has ever had, and will never have.

"Mexican" became a pejorative generic or colloquial term for not only low-grade Mexican strains but also all Mexican strains after Mexican commercial growers who did not know their asshole from their ear-hole when it came to breeding cannabis made the major mistake of polluting their pure strains with indica strains in hope of increasing yields and in doing so increasing profits and ended up turning their quality strains into ditch-weed, Roadside Red.

When tokers came along after that happened and smoked the nearly worthless Mexican products they wrongly assumed that what they smoked was the exact same thing that others had smoked, that it was always as bad as what they then tried to smoke and hated and that no quality strains had ever or still came from Mexico.

They couldn't have been more wrong if they tried!

I don't know if it is more sad or more amusing that people who were not only not even alive in that era, let alone tokers, actually believe they know enough about Mexican strains from the past too be able to tell others what they were like. People who have absolutely no experience with something should really not tell others what that thing is like.

At times I really feel sorry for the people who came along later than I did and who missed out on some really fantastic strains that came from Mexico. They have no idea what they missed.
 

3lions

New Member
who doesn't? Better seeds don't make it easier to grow?

There was a lot of shite too. Acapulco Gold n Durban Poisin mmmmm takes me back, being exceptions as oppose the norm.

This thread is about the fact that people are knocking the modern strains, the auto's and the feminised seeds as tho they are a bad thing. I don't agree to bracket them all as detrimental to the species or something
 

Brick Top

New Member
So Mexican strains were always low grade, right? If so, would someone please explain how since all of the following Cup winners have at least some percentage of Mexican strains in them, how could any breeder have been stupid enough to use any Mexican strains or any crosses with Mexican strains in them at any point in time and expect, or even hope to win a Cup? Why would they have even bothered to enter them since they, at least to some small degree, relied on some Mexican strain in their creation?

The people who love to talk about how terrible Mexican strains have always been have no idea how much they owe to Mexican strains. Without them many of their favorite strains would not be what they love today.

(Duplicates found below are different breeders versions that carry the same strain name as others.)




































Warlock »»» {Skunk x Skunk} x Afghanistan









































































 

3lions

New Member
Is there a point to that plagiarism?

I though this was about auto seeds n fem seeds? I didn't realise anyone had thrashed Mexican weed? Us Europeans didn't experience that anyway, our crap was from Morocco n places like that. Like Mexico I presume, its who grows it and how its grown and the quality of the strain in the first place that dictates the end result. Not where it originated from.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Is there a point to that plagiarism?

I though this was about auto seeds n fem seeds? I didn't realise anyone had thrashed Mexican weed? Us Europeans didn't experience that anyway, our crap was from Morocco n places like that. Like Mexico I presume, its who grows it and how its grown and the quality of the strain in the first place that dictates the end result. Not where it originated from.

Yes, there clearly is. Mexican strains were mentioned and said to be low grade. That, right or wrong, brought them into the discussion. The puppies of today love to claim that Mexican strains always were low grade but they have no idea how much they owe to Mexican strains. Mexican strains have, to some degree or another, ended up in a very large percentage of the strains of today that the puppies love. Why would such low grade strains ever have been used in so many different crosses if they were truly low grade? Why do most Cup winners have at least some percentage of some Mexican strain or another in them if Mexican strains have always been low grade?

As for your plagiarism comment, few, if any, puppies who wrongly believe that all Mexican strains have always been low grade would believe a list of strain names that were said to have some percentage of Mexican in them without the actual linage being shown. What you called plagiarism is actually proof and also a history lesson for the puppies.

On the subject of feminized beans and auto-flowering strains ... if people take a close look at the very best breeders they will see that few of them deal in feminized beans and or auto-flowering strains and of those that do, they are very late entrants into the market and only did so in hope of not losing as many sales to the lesser breeders that have filled their lines with feminized beans and auto-flowering strains.

Feminized beans do come in handy for people who do not have the room to pop and then grow enough beans to be able to then separate the males from the females and still have enough plants left to meet their needs. That is the one saving grace for feminized beans. For anyone else, they should only purchase regular beans.

When it comes to auto-flowering strains, I would not even consider growing any of them, not even if they were a freebie that came with a seed purchase. They are a gimmick. Who is incapable of changing their light cycle to induce flowering? What is the actual need for auto-flowering strains? So 'Rainman' can grow too?

C. Ruderalis has long been known to have low levels of THC and since the quest for the Holy Grail has never been too create strains that flower on their own without a light cycle change and instead to increase potency, so why would anyone want strains that are made using C. Ruderalis when that would be counterproductive for the quest? So they do not have to change their timer settings?

When feminized beans were first offered many people went Cuckoo for Coca Puffs over them. Why? Because they were new and most puppy growers believe that anything new is always better. When auto-flowering strains hit the market many people went all Lady Gaga over them. Why? Because they were new and most puppy growers believe that anything new is always better.

It really does fit with the whole Mexican strain thing in that puppies always believe that anything older or from the past always sucks and everything new is the greatest invention since sliced bread and that it is always better.

Far more times than not, they are wrong.
 

BSIv2.0

Well-Known Member
On the subject of feminized beans and auto-flowering strains ... if people take a close look at the very best breeders they will see that few of them deal in feminized beans and or auto-flowering strains and of those that do, they are very late entrants into the market and only did so in hope of not losing as many sales to the lesser breeders that have filled their lines with feminized beans and auto-flowering strains.

Feminized beans do come in handy for people who do not have the room to pop and then grow enough beans to be able to then separate the makes from the females and still have enough plants left to meet their needs. That is the one saving grace for feminized beans. For anyone else, they should only purchase regular beans.

When it comes to auto-flowering strains, I would not even consider growing any of them, not even if they were a freebie that came with a seed purchase. They are a gimmick. Who is incapable of changing their light cycle to induce flowering? What is the actual need for auto-flowering strains? So 'Rainman' can grow too?
Way to put it in a nutshell...
 

napa23

Well-Known Member
Again, you people are thinking your way is best for all situations, which is clearly no the case. Again, if you don't like them, don't grow them. "Rainman"? Are you shitting me? Auto's are good for personal growers that want to keep it simple. I can't do photoperiods because the temp would get too hot in my closet if i closed the doors. I don't have a ventilation system, just my a/c in my apartment. I don't have the need or tools to install a ventilation system in my apartment's closet. And I'm not trying to buy a tent. SO, i leave my closet door open all day and i only need 4 hours for a dark period. It works for me. I'm going to say this again. FUCK YOU to all you people calling auto growers stupid or noobs or shit like that. Who made you the divine ruler of pot? I like my auto's, i grow them for my reasons and they work for me. Get off auto growers' nuts, damn. I'm gonna post a pic of my 60 Day Wonder, say what you want about it, but i think it's doing very well. This is at day 35 from seed, day 22 of flower.
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3lions

New Member
Brick top.. okay , i follow what you are saying now tho I don't agree with it.

You are basically saying that autos or any strains using traits of a ruderallis will always be pants?
That breeders will never find new ways of crossing or taking the best elements of a plant and adding those strengths to another?
That new breeders using new techniques are just doing it all wrong and the old boys doing things the old way are correct?
That people who wish to grow plants in about two months flat cannot grow?
That all fem seeds are genetically fooked up and you will have all your plants hermie?

Napa, the new critical + auto that has recently come out is the best auto I have tried so far, nice taste, decent strength, nice looking. 60 days.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Brick top.. okay , i follow what you are saying now tho I don't agree with it.

You are basically saying that autos or any strains using traits of a ruderallis will always be pants?
That breeders will never find new ways of crossing or taking the best elements of a plant and adding those strengths to another?
That new breeders using new techniques are just doing it all wrong and the old boys doing things the old way are correct?
That people who wish to grow plants in about two months flat cannot grow?
That all fem seeds are genetically fooked up and you will have all your plants hermie?

Napa, the new critical + auto that has recently come out is the best auto I have tried so far, nice taste, decent strength, nice looking. 60 days.

Some of what you said were things I never mentioned or even inferred so if I gave you a wrong impression I am sorry.

I made no comments about hermies but depending on what method was used to make feminized beans the odds of hermies are anything from slightly more than regular beans to much more than using regular beans. The history of feminized beans has proven that. It is not like I am saying it is a high percentage of beans but as we all know, it only takes one to foul a crop and since the odds are greater with feminized beans, if someone can avoid that by using regular beans it would not be an injudicious thing too do.

If someone wants to grow plants in a shorter period of time it doesn't take auto-flowering strains too do that. You just don't have to veg long or not veg at all. I may be wrong since I have never grown any auto-flowering strains but I do see them advertised when I look at other strains and many I see say medium or long for flowering time so I have to believe someone could finish regular beans in the same period of time, and in some cases even sooner. Length of flowering time is length of flowering time and if someone flips their time at the same time or sooner than an auto-flower would begin to flower the only difference after that should only be actual flowering time.

When it comes to new techniques I would really like to know which one or ones has made a real difference in potency. If anyone has paid attention to THC levels for many years now there has not been an appreciable across the board increase. If you go back to the mid 90's, if not a bit farther, there has not been a real increase in the highest THC levels. There are more strains that have a higher average level of THC, but it is not like each year's best strains keep getting more and more potent in THC. If it had been by now strains would average about 30% or higher in THC levels.

I used to have a neighbor that did DNA research. It was not on plants but it was his job so he knew a bit more about it than anyone here does and he grew herb too and he said until plant DNA can be totally figured out and spliced there would not be any appreciable increase in potency because no matter how many times you cross this with that, when making a cross you are not only crossing the good things but also the bad, the limiting factors, the things that put limits on what other things do. Until every bit can be isolated and understood and the bits that make 'more' can be spliced without adding the things that limit them there is only so much that can be done. Anyone that tells you that you can cross strains in a 'new way' to get a bunch more out of them is pulling your leg.

I am not sure what "pants" meant so I am not sure how to comment on that. Basically though what I was saying is when you cross something that is low potency with something that is high potency the very best you can hope for is an equally high potency plant but the odds of it being equally potent are not all that high. Plants pass on genetics and you just do not find plants that will only pass on what you want to be passed on. What was said above is basically that. You can throw dry dirt against the wall and hope something sticks, in other words made a zillion crosses and hope you hit a home run, but when you are crossing a weak strain with a potent strain most times you will be lucky if hit a triple.

Of course the breeders will tell you what you want to hear and sadly many growers are gullible and believe what they want to be told and then hear. Why else do you think that some people actually fall for BC Seeds supposed 50% THC strains now and then? If a breeder advertises that a strain will put you on the moon faster than the Apollo rocket shot Neil Armstrong and his crew to the moon a good number of people will purchase it as fast as they can. Always remember, there are no truth in advertising laws when it comes to cannabis strains and seeds. Something you can add to that is there is always a percentage of people on boards like this who have never had access to true high quality herb before and they can purchase a strain that to someone else is a mid-grade or even a low-grade strain by professional breeding standards, grow it, smoke it and then go on and on how it is the very best pot they ever smoked in their entire life! Add something like that to an exaggerated breeder claim and you have more and more people who will race to purchase the strain.

Another factor is what I call the flavor of the month syndrome. Many people totally believe that most, if not all, new strains are a step up, an advancement, that they are better than anything that is older. So they purchase them. Again, there has not been a truly appreciable increase in potency for a good number of years.

Why do you think it is that breeders have put so much effort into strains that have pretty colors and exotic aromas and yummy flavors and strains that flower on their own or made seeds that are supposedly all female? It is because for the most part they have hit a brick wall when it comes to making more potent strains. They have to offer the public something that they can call new and improved and since they cannot do it with THC they do it with gimmicks like pretty colors and exotic aromas and yummy flavors and strains that flower on their own and supposedly all female seeds.

Like it or not, agree or not, that is how things are. Once they could not come up with a better steak to sell they decided to sell people on the sizzle and say, doesn't that make it wonderfully yummy? I don't buy sizzle, I buy steak.
 

GoldenGanja13

Well-Known Member
Talk is talk, grow it and put in your bowl then you can speak with truth. Before trying auto's for myself I always thought nothing of them. Now that I have grown 2 strains I can say that they are a ass kickin plant. Great for new start ups. Now that they have a auto haze.....I just might throw some autos in my garden once again.
 

3lions

New Member
You make a lot of sense Brick Top, not as if I ever doubted your knowledge. I work closely with a few breeders so altho some of the things you say are true they also have valid reasons for doing so. For example, some people are very loyal to a brand/breeder. A certain breeder may produce great strains, they may produce a strain that is absolutely perfect for a certain type of grow, an individual environment, a persons medical annoyance.. So everything is great except for one thing, they get bored of the flavour/effect after a while.

In these situations people are often asking for a new and sometimes with popular strains this will happen. For example Moby Dick is one of the most popular strains out here in Spain for many years. They plant is great but sales slow as people get bored so they develop MobyDick 2 in essence just for this very reason.

I take on board that hype is pointless. You can never judge anything until you have both grown and tried the particular strains. be they auto, fems, mexican whatever. "One mans meat is another mans poison" n all that.

I have tried a 'sizzle', they are okay if I'm in a hurry and usually only about 5 bucks as oppose to ten :-D
 

buzzcuz

Member
autos r the lazy persons seed
So a plant that has a shorter flowering time is for a lazy person? Please explain. Does that mean there's less watering? Less training?
Less climate control? Less trimming? How about perpetual growers using auto's soley, or with photos? There's someone on here doing 5lb
per 90 days with autos, pic proven, is he lazy? Lastly, if I may kindly ask you, when was the last time you produce, harvested, and trimmed
5lbs. on a consistent basis, that being a min. of one year?

sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and REMOVE ALL DOUBT

You said it.
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Ya can keep your sub par shit autos. I run a perpetual with photoperiod plants. It's not hard at all, and it's better quality.

If I wanted "huge harvests" I'd grow big bud or some other commercial crop strain. I'd much prefer to have amazing smoke than be enjoying watered down genetics. Besides I'd never get a 5 lb plant in my 400 watt garden, nor would I want 5 lbs of shwag.
 
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