Why don't more ppl grow auto flowers?

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Shugglet

Well-Known Member
Also, what light cycle do you run? 18/6? 20/4? 24/0? if you are using 50-100% more electricity that needs to be factored in as well.

Im really not anti autoflowers, just skeptical of your claims. I do prefer regular fems though, as they provide more flexibility in growing them and theres far better variety.
 
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gardenhackle

Member
Shugglet said:
Why couldnt the same thing be accomplished with some indicas? Unless autos yield more than regular indica breeds... which would be the first time Im hearing this.

Also, it really does not matter what the "time from seed" is, flowering time is really all the matters.

I was mostly just getting at your "future of commercial growing" which doesnt make much sense to me. But assuming youre correct in that it is as simple as giving the plant one specific gene to become autoflower, then yeah, it might be.
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if you are a commercial grower and you still believe the same thing about autos give always believed, you'd be one of the people that failed to keep up with the times.
If you think all that matters is time in flowering, that's just swell for you

My plants need space and light and resources from the time I set mine in starter plugs though. I wish I had plants that magically spring up overnight ready to flower (autos or photos either one). So I think ALL the time you have to manage their environment counts.

Different strokes for different folks. don't change a thing. You've obviously had it all figured out for years now. My post is for the N benefit of people who don't already know everything that might want to hear a perspective from someone that's grown many runs of both and found that there are autos that armrest so good that they are a viable option for even the most quality conscious grower or consumer.

If I thought photos were all that and a cup of coffee, I'd still be growing the shit out of them from clones instead of spending a thousand dollars at a pop for seeds.

I'll keep wallowing blissfully in my ignorance with autoflowers while others continue to struggle for 1 gram per watt over long-ass 100 day run cycles.
 
G

gardenhackle

Member
Shugglet said:
Are the knowitalls here the ones making grand claims that seem to fly in the face of the consensus of the vast majority of the industry? ;)

Are there any references for chemical contents between an auto version of a plant and the non-auto version? Im sure there are somewhere.
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Logical fallacy appeal to popularity.

Got anything else?
 
G

gardenhackle

Member
Shugglet said:
Also, what light cycle do you run? 18/6? 20/4? 24/0? if you are using 50-100% more electricity that needs to be factored in as well.
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ABSOLUTELY!!!!! You MUST figure in the cost of lighting because the extra light time is the key to the super fast turnover times.

Last I checked, increasing light cycle time is way, WAY easier than expanding grow space, so it's the first thing I think some one should look at in terms of increasing productivity from their existing grow space.

I'm running 24 hours this cycle. Expect it to finish in under 60 days on 24 Hours. Then I'll evaluate that, too. Might go back to 18 hour cycles of the speed of harvest doesn't generously compensate for the extra lighting during the cycle.
 
S

Shugglet

Well-Known Member
gardenhackle said:
Logical fallacy appeal to popularity.

Got anything else?
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Ever here of the "anecdotal fallacy"?

Follow me on this one. If autos were as amazing as you say, how long could this be kept a secret?

And how many commercial growers grow from seed? Do any?

And are you really spending a thousand dollars a pop on seeds???? Holy shit. Over $5k a year in seeds alone??? no thanks.

gardenhackle said:
ABSOLUTELY!!!!! You MUST figure in the cost of lighting because the extra light time is the key to the super fast turnover times.

Last I checked, increasing light cycle time is way, WAY easier than expanding grow space, so it's the first thing I think some one should look at in terms of increasing productivity from their existing grow space.

I'm running 24 hours this cycle. Expect it to finish in under 60 days on 24 Hours. Then I'll evaluate that, too. Might go back to 18 hour cycles of the speed of harvest doesn't generously compensate for the extra lighting during the cycle.
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So if I have a plant thats vegging and throw it into flower the same time you thow an auto in of the same genetics and same environment(for sake of discussion), its not crazy to think the yields will be roughly the same. But you used ~2x the light kwh to get there. Subtracting a months worth of time under a lower watt veg lamp for my setup Id still bet you use ~30% more energy for similar results.

It could easily turn out to be a wash though as far as getting more out of a plant. So in other words, under optimal conditions for each there probably isnt a clear winner. Then its a battle of genetics for chemical contents. And for $1000 seeds I certainly hope you would have the upper hand on genetics.
 
G

gardenhackle

Member
Shugglet said:
Follow me on this one. If autos were as amazing as you say, how long could this be kept a secret?

And how many commercial growers grow from seed? Do any?

And are you really spending a thousand dollars a pop on seeds???? Holy shit. Over $5k a year in seeds alone??? no thanks.



So if I have a plant thats vegging and throw it into flower the same time you thow an auto in of the same genetics and same environment(for sake of discussion), its not crazy to think the yields will be roughly the same. But you used ~2x the light kwh to get there. Subtracting a months worth of time under a lower watt veg lamp for my setup Id still bet you use ~30% more energy for similar results.

It could easily turn out to be a wash though as far as getting more out of a plant. So in other words, under optimal conditions for each there probably isnt a clear winner. Then its a battle of genetics for chemical contents. And for $1000 seeds I certainly hope you would have the upper hand on genetics.
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I just spent 1000.00 last week. (OK, actually it was over 900 but less than 1000 - I just rounded off). I'll be doing it again before the years out. I do know commercial growers growing thousands of autos from seed. The practice is being given increasing consideration all the time. I think Phil is genius for concentrating entirely on breeding autfolowers at mephistogentics.com. That's how people make a fortune. Seeing the future others can't and making it happen.

Actually, really well bred autoflowers will outproduce photos given the same space and the same light and the same number of weeks. You already hit on why earlier but it didn't sink in, apparently. You can run the lights, which power the plant up to TWO TIMES LONGER DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. Now you might think, OH FUCK, that's just going to double my electricity during flower.

YEP. It does. But it gives you a bigger yield and a smart commercial grower knows that it's all about the net. If you can net more after all electricity costs by running a 24 hour light in your space, you're ahead. It's all about your business strategy.

The genetics..... I'll tell you right now that you can randomly pick any strain on the Mephisto genetics website, grow out an auto and send it in for testing and it'll probably be more potent than your favorite commercial strain. And not by a small margin, either. You owe it to yourself to try it to see if what you think you know is still correct.

Cannabis breeding has come a long way and you haven't seen shit yet. Once cannabis is legal worldwide and the technology of companies like Monsanto get unleashed on it (I know, "monsanto is evil", but let's not get into that nonsense with this thread). The autoflower gene is just one gene and with gene splicing, any strain can become autoflowering without altering any of the other characteristics like we must through more standard genetic modification programs.

I don't really care if people hate on autoflowers. I don't really like all the misinformation getting bandied about, though. And I realize from your perspective, everything I just posted might be all that (whoever you are). But you can check it out for yourself if you care more about what's right than who's right. :) ( mephistogenetics.com <--- wouldn't cost you much to find out).
 
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edwardvanhalen123456

edwardvanhalen123456

Well-Known Member
Aby55 said:
Less potent and smaller yeilds. Although potency is coming up a bit.
you cant scrog autos. Etc.
Again a question a simple google search could have answered.
Also from what ive read most autos take closer to 3 months.
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Ya I was thinking about yield and I know you get a lot more from regular weed plants.
I know I can google it but I just wanted your guys opinions. Thanks man.
 
G

gardenhackle

Member
Shugglet said:
Ever here of the "anecdotal fallacy"?

Follow me on this one. If autos were as amazing as you say, how long could this be kept a secret?

And how many commercial growers grow from seed? Do any?

And are you really spending a thousand dollars a pop on seeds???? Holy shit. Over $5k a year in seeds alone??? no thanks.



So if I have a plant thats vegging and throw it into flower the same time you thow an auto in of the same genetics and same environment(for sake of discussion), its not crazy to think the yields will be roughly the same. But you used ~2x the light kwh to get there. Subtracting a months worth of time under a lower watt veg lamp for my setup Id still bet you use ~30% more energy for similar results.

It could easily turn out to be a wash though as far as getting more out of a plant. So in other words, under optimal conditions for each there probably isnt a clear winner. Then its a battle of genetics for chemical contents. And for $1000 seeds I certainly hope you would have the upper hand on genetics.
Click to expand...
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
gardenhackle said:
You're all right about that post being all wrong, LOL.
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This has been hashed out here already. There is a big long thread on it.

Auto are just as potent as photos. Actually might have a better cannabinoid profile.

My last auto run produced three foot plants in 90 days under t5.

Autos can hit 6 foot with half pound in 90 days easy.

We actually have a member here that grows and sells autos to shops. He has put up lab test to prove his claims.

Shops say they can't even tell the difference.

There are two down sides to autos. First is the lights on time. That's no big deal though. If running photos you would need a veg and flower area. With autos you don't need a flower room. So that point is kind of moot.

Now on to the second. Seeds. They make fem auto seeds so you have to buy more. Make your own and that point is moot.

It all comes down to preference.
 
edwardvanhalen123456

edwardvanhalen123456

Well-Known Member
Foothills said:
Many outdoor growers are looking for pounds per plant, not a few ozs.
Conscientious growers and breeders alike feel that low quality ruderalis should have never been introduced into the gene pool to begin with. Many of these same growers and breeders don't have any use for feminized seeds either.
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Hey whats up buddy. I like how you made fun of me all the time and now we're buddy's. What is a ruderalis lol?
Ya about the femmed seeds. I would never get a regular seed because I have no idea about the whole pollination thing. Thanks for the reply my brother.
 
edwardvanhalen123456

edwardvanhalen123456

Well-Known Member
gardenhackle said:
I just spent 1000.00 last week. (OK, actually it was over 900 but less than 1000 - I just rounded off). I'll be doing it again before the years out. I do know commercial growers growing thousands of autos from seed. The practice is being given increasing consideration all the time. I think Phil is genius for concentrating entirely on breeding autfolowers at mephistogentics.com. That's how people make a fortune. Seeing the future others can't and making it happen.

Actually, really well bred autoflowers will outproduce photos given the same space and the same light and the same number of weeks. You already hit on why earlier but it didn't sink in, apparently. You can run the lights, which power the plant up to TWO TIMES LONGER DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. Now you might think, OH FUCK, that's just going to double my electricity during flower.

YEP. It does. But it gives you a bigger yield and a smart commercial grower knows that it's all about the net. If you can net more after all electricity costs by running a 24 hour light in your space, you're ahead. It's all about your business strategy.

The genetics..... I'll tell you right now that you can randomly pick any strain on the Mephisto genetics website, grow out an auto and send it in for testing and it'll probably be more potent than your favorite commercial strain. And not by a small margin, either. You owe it to yourself to try it to see if what you think you know is still correct.

Cannabis breeding has come a long way and you haven't seen shit yet. Once cannabis is legal worldwide and the technology of companies like Monsanto get unleashed on it (I know, "monsanto is evil", but let's not get into that nonsense with this thread). The autoflower gene is just one gene and with gene splicing, any strain can become autoflowering without altering any of the other characteristics like we must through more standard genetic modification programs.

I don't really care if people hate on autoflowers. I don't really like all the misinformation getting bandied about, though. And I realize from your perspective, everything I just posted might be all that (whoever you are). But you can check it out for yourself if you care more about what's right than who's right. :) ( mephistogenetics.com <--- wouldn't cost you much to find out).
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for all the info, I appreciate it. My main thing I'm concentrating on now is getting an led light. I grow with cfl's and you know cfl's suck lol.
 
G

gardenhackle

Member
Wanna run a little live test anyone? 75 days, a 3x3 tent and 350 watts or less of the lighting of your choice and the seeds of your choice and let's see what we get with a running grow log?
edwardvanhalen123456 said:
Ya I was thinking about yield and I know you get a lot more from regular weed plants.
I know I can google it but I just wanted your guys opinions. Thanks man.
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Well, hell if you know you were thinking about yield and you know you can get more from regular weed plants, grow regular weed plants. Problem solved. ;) Stick to just growing regular weed plants. Seeds are cheaper anyways, right?
 
Uberknot

Uberknot

Well-Known Member
Well I can tell you this they can make male flowers and open them up in less than 12 days from seed....
So small you can't even tell.
 
Uberknot

Uberknot

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
This has been hashed out here already. There is a big long thread on it.

Auto are just as potent as photos. Actually might have a better cannabinoid profile.

My last auto run produced three foot plants in 90 days under t5.

Autos can hit 6 foot with half pound in 90 days easy.

We actually have a member here that grows and sells autos to shops. He has put up lab test to prove his claims.

Shops say they can't even tell the difference.

There are two down sides to autos. First is the lights on time. That's no big deal though. If running photos you would need a veg and flower area. With autos you don't need a flower room. So that point is kind of moot.

Now on to the second. Seeds. They make fem auto seeds so you have to buy more. Make your own and that point is moot.

It all comes down to preference.
Click to expand...

Where are those big ones like that? I'd like to have some of those :P
 
edwardvanhalen123456

edwardvanhalen123456

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
This has been hashed out here already. There is a big long thread on it.

Auto are just as potent as photos. Actually might have a better cannabinoid profile.

My last auto run produced three foot plants in 90 days under t5.

Autos can hit 6 foot with half pound in 90 days easy.

We actually have a member here that grows and sells autos to shops. He has put up lab test to prove his claims.

Shops say they can't even tell the difference.

There are two down sides to autos. First is the lights on time. That's no big deal though. If running photos you would need a veg and flower area. With autos you don't need a flower room. So that point is kind of moot.

Now on to the second. Seeds. They make fem auto seeds so you have to buy more. Make your own and that point is moot.

It all comes down to preference.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the thc percentage when you say a better cannabinoid profile?
How much did a t5 light cost you. I hope when I get an led I can grow a full auto in 90 days. That's a really short time to wait for a nice plant.
It used to take me half a year to grow a full non auto plant lol.

I never thought about the difference in potency. That's a really good subject you brought up. Thanks a lot for all the info, it's much appreciated.
 
S

Shugglet

Well-Known Member
gardenhackle said:
Actually, really well bred autoflowers will outproduce photos given the same space and the same light and the same number of weeks. You already hit on why earlier but it didn't sink in, apparently. You can run the lights, which power the plant up to TWO TIMES LONGER DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. Now you might think, OH FUCK, that's just going to double my electricity during flower.

YEP. It does. But it gives you a bigger yield and a smart commercial grower knows that it's all about the net. If you can net more after all electricity costs by running a 24 hour light in your space, you're ahead. It's all about your business strategy.
Click to expand...
I dont understand why you keep insinuating that autoflowers will always yield more.

Take an indica and an autoindica of the same strain. veg the indica in the same tent you keep mother and other clones.

Put the vegged clone into flower the same time you start the autoflower. If they are the same strain they should yield roughly the same g/sqft...

So youre using ~2x the electricity for lighting (minus veg tent- which runs at lower wattage and eliminates need to buy seeds) to get roughly the same results.

Am I missing something?
 
Uberknot

Uberknot

Well-Known Member
Shugglet said:
I dont understand why you keep insinuating that autoflowers will always yield more.

Take an indica and an autoindica of the same strain. veg the indica in the same tent you keep mother and other clones.

Put the vegged clone into flower the same time you start the autoflower. If they are the same strain they should yield roughly the same g/sqft...

So youre using ~2x the electricity for lighting (minus veg tent- which runs at lower wattage and eliminates need to buy seeds) to get roughly the same results.

Am I missing something?
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Ohh yeah if you can use clones that makes it alittle faster...they still have to root and that can take time.
 
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