Why do trichomes sink?

god1 said:

Here's an interesting experiment: When I first saw MIG's pic's I wondered if the THC had been activated? If the majority of it has not been, MIG could go do that and see if he gets a change in density. He should, if the assumption is correct that the majority of the stuff inside is THC-A.

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This ball was hard as glass. In the fall it on a hard surface it jumped with a loud thud.



Unfortunately, I can not do experiments, two years ago it went to heaven.

Activated THC looks different, it is a thick resin that does not harden.

god1 said:

I'm assuming since you started this thread that you did the actual experiment that indicated that the heads would sink, is this correct?

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Well just my experience from ice water hash.

god1 said:

you not talking about changing the density of the water, ie, extreme temps, but rather talking about the change in density of the head? If I understand you correctly?

If that's the case, then you're talking about some kind of reaction in the head as a function thermal change that would effect the density of the head from say room temp to some elevated temp ... sure I could buy that, the question is how high do you have to go and will the sheathing stay intact?

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Yes sir you got it. I'm guessing that if there is any change in density of the heads it probably would not stay intact, but who knows right?

god1 said:

In theory just going from active to normal is about a 13% change in molar weight.
If we can get it to float that'd be cool.

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Hmm that is interesting. I'll have to try that some time.

MiG pilot said:

This ball was hard as glass. In the fall it on a hard surface it jumped with a loud thud.

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Unfortunately, I can not do experiments, two years ago it went to heaven.

Activated THC looks different, it is a thick resin that does not harden.

View attachment 3193372 View attachment 3193374 View attachment 3193376

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Well I’ll bet he had a happy fair well send off!

Re activated THC, perhaps another thread, but I respectfully disagree.

“Gooeyness” may be a byproduct of the conversion, but not a direct result of thc-a -> thc. I think other reactions are involved as a result of thermal input.

god1 said:

“Gooeyness” may be a byproduct of the conversion, but not a direct result of thc-a -> thc.

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I do not have access to laboratories where research can rigorously analyze these transformations, but such a change in the consistency always happens, I watched it many times.

Equally, if warmed solid amber or preheat the material before extraction.

Likewise, the reclaim washed off with ethanol from the condenser of my device.

MiG pilot said:

View attachment 3193371

Unfortunately, I can not do experiments, two years ago it went to heaven.

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Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!1 RIP!

MiG pilot said:

I do not have access to laboratories where research can rigorously analyze these transformations, but such a change in the consistency always happens, I watched it many times.

Equally, if warmed solid amber or preheat the material before extraction.

Likewise, the reclaim washed off with ethanol from the condenser of my device.

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Oh yeah, I’ve seen it myself.

But here’s the deal, the stuff we’re calling absolute really is a “hodge-podge” of stuff. Prior to the decarb process, as you know, it’s mostly the carboxylic acid version of the main cannabinoids, with terps and lipids.

According to published pharma research material I’ve read, neutral high purity THC is generally considered to be a solid at room temp. (Albeit oxidation and storage is a problem, but that’s a different issue).

Also, there’s enough research out there to indicate, isolating neutral THC can be a bit of a pain. Going from THC-A to THC apparently isn’t always that straight forward. Isomers pop out, and indirect conversions occur.

I’ve read more than one study that discusses attempted decarboxylation of THC-A at as low a temp as 135 deg C and having a good quantity convert to CBN.

Why is that important, well a byproduct of the conversion from THC to CBN is H2O. This also occurs during the conversion of esters. I’m not saying that there’s a conversion to CBN or other products 100% of the time. But I am validating your point for the need for lab testing to figure out what is actually going on.

Your point is valid, trying to figure this stuff out with a full lab is tough enough, without it, we end up guessing a lot.

I decarboxylate much of my concentrate for edibles and tinctures. When “goo” starts to show, I let it sit, in a thin layer, at low heat on a slick pad. It may take a while, but it eventually hardens up.

So yeah, you’re right it is the decarb process, but it’s not necessarily having more neutral than acidic THC that is the problem.

At least that’s my claim, for now ... at least until I get some more stuff tested.

Check out this device/links:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-05/06/scio-molecular-reader
http://interestingengineering.com/scio-molecular-scanner-can-count-your-calories-for-you/

Makes you wonder if the frequency resolution of NFIR is good enough to be used in an application like ours.

Regards.

god1 said:

Also, there’s enough research out there to indicate, isolating neutral THC can be a bit of a pain. Going from THC-A to THC apparently isn’t always that straight forward. Isomers pop out, and indirect conversions occur.

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I have never really thought about it at that level, but it makes perfect sense. Almost nothing will convert 100% without there being some kind of byproduct and indirect reactions occur even with the simplest molecules, so it stands that a molecule as structurally complex as THC would probably not have a straightforward and simple conversion.
Could using some kind of chemistry reaction modeling software help at all?

Daub Marley said:

I have never really thought about it at that level, but it makes perfect sense. Almost nothing will convert 100% without there being some kind of byproduct and indirect reactions occur even with the simplest molecules, so it stands that a molecule as structurally complex as THC would probably not have a straightforward and simple conversion.
Could using some kind of chemistry reaction modeling software help at all?

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Personally, I haven’t researched chem/sim tools all that much, so can't tell ya what's available. I'd bet the free stuff isn't all that sophisticated, but don't know for sure. Also, you still have to validate the theoretical stuff via empirical data, so access to a lab of some sort is still required. I'd put money into instrumentation myself.

Here’s a link that might be kind of handy:
http://www.sciencegeek.net/Chemistry/chemware/chemware.shtml

I’ve used ACD/ChemSketch and find it pretty useful.

Regards

Bubble hash is the quickest and the easiest way of seeing this happen. No need for any complex scientific experiment.
Complete, fully formed resin heads can be collected and seen sinking in water; confirmed by microscope they are fully intact, seperated trichomes.

Could it be because trichomes are just simply denser?


Or just heavier

Gravity?

AlGore said:

Gravity?

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That looks so trippy! You can sooo tell the difference between the plant matter and kief. But now it comes down to syphon the water gently to get rid of the water but how would you seperate the plant and trich after that?

WarMachine said:

That looks so trippy! You can sooo tell the difference between the plant matter and kief. But now it comes down to syphon the water gently to get rid of the water but how would you seperate the plant and trich after that?

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Well I'm not one to personally pan for gold... I suppose I'd use butane. Still a lot of non required baggage in a trichome.

WarMachine said:

That looks so trippy! You can sooo tell the difference between the plant matter and kief. But now it comes down to syphon the water gently to get rid of the water but how would you seperate the plant and trich after that?

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I'm not entirely sure to be honest. That pic is from this site, http://www.icecold.org/process.htm ... These guys invented the ice water method, and there is actually a whole article from like 10 years ago somewhere on the nets about all this drama with Bubbleman and shit, lol.

Here is a video that shows someone using their setup:

Interesting, imma have to read up on that little beef with bubble man and check out the video!

B.man jacks other peoples tech and calls it his.. same thing he is currently doing with my dry sift method, lol.

Here is the link with the story

http://www.cannabisfarmer.com/web/node/3

In India my Afghanis friends would use water to "super clean" clean their resin. They just dropped the resin in a container filled with water, waited some, the resin would sink while the leaf material would float. I do not know the science behind but resin heads are heavier than leaf material, trichomes can't swim……..

AlGore said:

I'm not entirely sure to be honest. That pic is from this site, http://www.icecold.org/process.htm ... These guys invented the ice water method, and there is actually a whole article from like 10 years ago somewhere on the nets about all this drama with Bubbleman and shit, lol.

Here is a video that shows someone using their setup:

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This was the "inspiration" for the bubble bags. Pretty cool but you do not have the control that the bags offer.

The only true new technique in thousand of years of the evolution of the art of sieving. We all have to agree that using water as a medium to sieve is pretty genius.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

In India my Afghanis friends would use water to "super clean" clean their resin. They just dropped the resin in a container filled with water, waited some, the resin would sink while the leaf material would float. I do not know the science behind but resin heads are heavier than leaf material, trichomes can't swim……..

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From the looks of the pic that AlGore posted, some leaf material still sank with the trichs laying under it. Looks like grass growing on a beach sand lol.