You're right. The plan is only good if it benefits the republican buddies. We saw the flip flops on being for the Bush bailouts but against the Obama bailouts. I'm against the healthcare bill no matter what so I didn't need to look too much into the details but I bet the dems looked into it and found the handouts to the republican lobbyists.
Who do you prefer for 2012 president of the USA?
- Thread starter Dan Kone
- Start date
Filthy Phil
Well-Known Member
I dont give a fuck if you take ME seriously...just get real. Why would I care if you cant take me seriously...this isnt about me...and especially over spelling errors? I have no campaign...only saying your a fucking fool if you would chose hitler over obama, and theres not a spelling error that.can invalidate a statement like that.
Basically if you would chose hitler over obama then you have to a spoiled ass little whiney bitch who really doesnt know how well they have it.
Obama talks socialism and spreading the wealth, his action of course concentrate wealth and transfer payments from the poor to the rich through subtle means. Clearly he pretends to be socialist all the while pandering to his Cronies. Crony Capitalist is what the Pres is all about.
I voted for Obama since Adolf doesn't even begin to qualify to even run for president.
I voted for Obama since Adolf doesn't even begin to qualify to even run for president.
Mr Neutron
Well-Known Member
Now THAT is a mature attitude.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
That health care plan was created by the Nixon administration and supported by every republican president between Nixon-Bush. Do you really believe Richard Nixon was a socialist? Ronald Reagan, he was a socialist? Mitt "corporations are people too" Romney is a socialist? You're out of your mind if you really believe that.
That's not what socialism means.
That's also not what socialism means.
That's not a definition, that's an editorial statement. It's also not on the MW page, I just checked.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Are you one of those that thinks fascism/socialim/marxism/nazi all are interchangeable words that basically mean the same thing? Oh my.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I agree. I don't like the health care plan either. But the idea that it's socialism is absurd. It's corporatism if it's anything that we can attach labels to. Socialism is where the people get to decide how a company or industry is run, not mandating people by a consumer product. That's the opposite of socialism.
And as far as the bailouts go, that was already voted on before Obama got into office. When he became president, his job was to distribute the funds, not unilaterally disobey a law passed by congress. Technically he could have gone to jail if he did that. A law passed by congress is the law, it's not a set of suggestions that a president can ignore at their own discretion. You can't reasonably blame Obama for a law passed by congress under the Bush administration.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Just because all of the aforementioned Republican Douchebag Presidents weren't FULLBLOWN socialists doesn't mean they didn't adopt some forms of socialism now does it?
Guess that leads some credence to the fact that there ain't bucket of piss difference between most politicians that want to run your life. They all want to be the one that holds that gun and runs your life for you. Obama has much in common with Republican AND Democrat presidents in that regard.
deprave
New Member
Of course not..At least I know the difference between libertarians and Anarchy..your one to make this accusation lol
They do have one striking similarity obviously and that is collectivism.
sync0s
Well-Known Member
Dude, I copy pasted the definition off of the exact page you linked too.....
If socialism has a different meaning to you, then fine, but don't get mad at me and say I don't know what it is when I am going off of the definition of the word.
kindnugz
Active Member
The healthcare bill is a complete fucking disaster. it is destroying small medical businesses because we can't handle the tsunami of new paperwork and regulations along with reductions in reimbursements.
The six figure fat cats at Medicare and Medicaid don't even know their own regulations, yet are trying to enforce them with a heavy hand. Multiple competing agencies are moving in to push for more regulation and in turn bigger fees and fines.
Healthcare is getting Walmartized into big hospitals that are closely controlled but dramatically underfunded by the federal government. Small practices can't handle the overhead of dealing with layers of bureacracy and paperwork that Obamacare has introduced. We can't even find out what the new rules are because no one knows what the hell is in the bill or it was deliberately written vaguely to expand the regulator's power. The bill was never deliberated, there was no chance for anyone to comment or have input, it was just forced through mostly in secret meetings from a president who promised transparency and a house speaker who promised to "drain the swamp".
Does anyone wonder why Obama waited to have the healthcare bill kick in after the election? Because when the general population finds out what really is in this bill, there will be unprecedented national outrage.
For this alone Obama should lose the election. Dems will certainly lose the Senate as well.
The six figure fat cats at Medicare and Medicaid don't even know their own regulations, yet are trying to enforce them with a heavy hand. Multiple competing agencies are moving in to push for more regulation and in turn bigger fees and fines.
Healthcare is getting Walmartized into big hospitals that are closely controlled but dramatically underfunded by the federal government. Small practices can't handle the overhead of dealing with layers of bureacracy and paperwork that Obamacare has introduced. We can't even find out what the new rules are because no one knows what the hell is in the bill or it was deliberately written vaguely to expand the regulator's power. The bill was never deliberated, there was no chance for anyone to comment or have input, it was just forced through mostly in secret meetings from a president who promised transparency and a house speaker who promised to "drain the swamp".
Does anyone wonder why Obama waited to have the healthcare bill kick in after the election? Because when the general population finds out what really is in this bill, there will be unprecedented national outrage.
For this alone Obama should lose the election. Dems will certainly lose the Senate as well.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
That just depends on how broad your definition of socialism is. You guys seem to believe that the government doing ANYTHING is a form of socialism. Should we not have fire departments or roads because they fall into you're extremist definition of socialism?
America since 1980 has turned into one of the furthest right wing capitalistic nations to ever exist in the history of the world, and you really want to claim that the political party driving them to that extreme are actually some sort of closet socialists? Come on now. Get a grip.
The fact is that we have a capitalism based mixed economy. So yes, there will be elements of socialism involved in that. You know why? It works. Does that mean we should adopt Soviet style socialism/communism? No. Because that doesn't work. Do you know what works? Borrowing aspects of government and economic systems that are successful. That means we sometimes employ capitalism, some times socialism, or what ever else is most effective. The idea that the United States has some obligation to pure free market capitalism is a load of crap. Free market capitalism comes with just as much tyranny as autocratic communism. Both are incredibly flawed systems that have never produced a positive result in reality. That's why we just use what works regardless of it you want to call it capitalism or socialism. That's what America is, that's what it's always been, and that's what it always will be if we want to be successful as a nation.
But back to the point, if you think forcing people to buy a product from a private company is socialism, you're profoundly ignorant.
Nor is there a "bucket of piss" difference between politicians who want to run your life and politicians who want to eliminate all the rules that protect us from having corporations run our lives. In fact given the choice between having a democratically elected government running my life and having multinational corporations run my life, I choose government. At least they are somewhat accountable to the people. Just having who ever makes the most money making the rules is a far worse fate. And that would be the practical result of electing a politician who wants to remove all the regulations that protect us from the corporations.
That's because Obama is a centrist.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Funny, it's not on the page when I click on the link. Anyways, that looks much more like a comment than a definition. Anyone can make a comment. If I comment on the definition of something, that doesn't immediately change the definition of the word.
And still, that comment is not a definition of socialism. Socialism isn't a blanket term for fiscal policies you disagree with. Socialism is when a company or industry is run by the workers or in a much more broad use of the term when a representative government runs a company or industry on behalf of the people.
A collective where workers get to vote on company policy is socialism. In a more broad definition of the word, medicare is socialism. When the president mandates you to buy a product from a private company that makes it's own corporate decisions, that is not in any way even by the loosest definition socialism. It's the exact opposite of socialism. It's corporatism.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
That is by far the DUMBEST thing i've ever read!!!
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
use your words now. form them together into sentences, and string those sentences together into paragraphs.
perhaps with a little more articulation, you can make some sort of coherent point rather than just insulting other members who have articulated coherent arguments.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I hope you're trolling.
Carne Seca
Well-Known Member
Your hope is in vain, unfortunately.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
Crazy how a bunch of people who appose socialism so much don't even understand what it is.
They don't know what the word means, but they are positive it's evil. lol
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
hanlon's razor explains it.