White and red, where are the numbers?

Apache has white and red. Area51 does it. Alot of people are talking about just whites and reds, and some even about nothing but whites, but where are the numbers showing this is a good trend?

I was over at Icmag looking through the top g/w numbers, and none are just from white and red panels. All that I saw were the typical blues and reds, with some whites mixed in on some of them.

I want to jump on the white and red band wagon, but I'm just not convinced yet.

I believe the concept with W/R, with white usually being RGB, or at least should be for people flowering, is to have an intense, efficient, multi spectrum light, mixed with sufficient and efficient reds running in peak spectrums for flowering. All the blue comes from the whites and any other spectrums needed will bleed from the LEDs or come from other interactions and phenomena, hopefully. Do I buy into all white grows? Nope, but they will be the shit one day I think.

And you should start posting more of your questions in the "LED Users Unite" thread since everyone is subscribed to that, otherwise Snot's gonna get "upset" your wasting valuable board space. LOL

PS Grams per watts is complete bullshit with LED. It really only works when comparing the same models of panels and diodes. Leave it in the past.

I've never really been big into the g/w either, but it does stand out that all of the top ones at Icmag have blues in the mix. Best I can see, before he went on hiatus, knna suggested there be some blue in the ratio, and it seems to work.

Thanks for the other comment.

If any mods see this, please merge this into the "LED Users Unite" thread...or since it really doesn't have any good information yet, you can just delete it .

astir thread has them. like i said in the other thread, a51 based spectrum off of astir. apaches discovered with nasa and ed rosenthal much earlier. they are secretive

I'm certainly no expert, but I've read a lot of the threads around here. The premise is you get all the blue you need from the whites and the whites have gotten efficient enough that it's cost effective to use them over blues. As an added bonus, you're less likely to burn the plants if they get close to the whites vs. blues.

You sir are mistaken.

We DO NOT base our spectrum on anything Astir has done. We do our own research and our own testing. Sure, that research does include paying attention to the results others are getting, including Astir, but before we release any spectrum, we'll test it first, and if you checked, our spectrum and LED selection is completely different than Astir's. Just because they use red and white, and Apache Tech uses red and white, and we use red and white, doesn't mean they're the same and that it's based off of each other.

Our spectrum where it is today, is just an evolved version of what we started with almost 2 years ago, and fine tuned it from there. My partner has been growing the same 2 strains from the same 2 mothers going on 5 years now, every time we start a new batch of clones, we tweak the spectrum just to see if there are positive or negative results compared to before. And as we removed more blue and deep red, and replaced it with white, the results were getting better, ultimately, that's how we ended up with what we have now, not based on what Astir does, and not based on what Apache Tech does.

To be fair, I do think Astir is one of the very few companies that tests their product before releasing it unto the masses, and they do have a pretty solid lamp, and I applaud them for that.

hyroot said:

astir thread has them. like i said in the other thread, a51 based spectrum off of astir. apaches discovered with nasa and ed rosenthal much earlier. they are secretive

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This will be my last post on here for awhile, I have a lot of stuff to do, and will not have time to hang out on the forums. So, if anyone needs to contact me, y'all know where to find me.

I'll leave you all with some close up pics of red and (phosphor based) white LEDs.





And here's some from AT. Can't tell what the name brand is, but they do not look cheap.

You stated in another thread prior to the release of the sgs how you were impressed by what they are doing with white and 630's and not using 660. and you were following their lead. Using the same. I never said your design is based of theirs just the wave lengths they use.

You also stated that you guys were scrapping the design and decided to go with Crees instead of the former leds. Then that new release date went by and no release because you were waiting on paperwork from cree.



I was reiterating what you posted. But you do tend to contradict yourself from time time.


Even the owner of vipar called you out on a post you made.

You're remembering it wrong. Yes, I am impressed with what they're doing, but I was using red and white before they even began as a company.

And no, I am not "following their lead". Anyone that knows me, knows I follow no one no matter how cool they are. I'm not a fucking follower.

Eraserhead said:

We DO NOT base our spectrum on anything Astir has done. We do our own research and our own testing. Sure, that research does include paying attention to the results others are getting, including Astir, but before we release any spectrum, we'll test it first, and if you checked, our spectrum and LED selection is completely different than Astir's. Just because they use red and white, and Apache Tech uses red and white, and we use red and white, doesn't mean they're the same and that it's based off of each other.

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hyroot said:

You stated in another thread prior to the release of the sgs how you were impressed by what they are doing with white and 630's and not using 660. and you were following their lead. Using the same. I never said your design is based of theirs just the wave lengths they use.

I was reiterating what you posted. But you do tend to contradict yourself from time time.

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Believe what you want...

edit:

Why do you keep editing your post? And why do you like to argue with everyone?

Vipar only confirmed what I said anyways. Called me out.... You are a real piece of work....

If you want to continue arguing with me, you know my email, and you know my number.

No he corrected a lot of what you said all he confirmed was they were from evergrow like your older models.

Calling you out is exactly what he did. He was highly offended by your post.

How is that even offensive of me saying that. Its what happened. I guess its too soon

I keep editing because typing from a kindle blows. It has the worst spell check. I have a lot of spelling errors.

Who else do I argue with except that troll the other day. Who was making posts saying I work for hydro shops and I sell products in my thread. I'm actually an audio engineer. . He was talking shit to everyone

My lights were never from Evergrow, everyone knows that I sourced my LEDs from Heliopto. I bought my cases from a metal shop, same place Evergrow got theirs. I proved this long time ago, to you matter of a fact, because you kept saying they were Apollo's. You always say shit and do not know what you're talking about. How long have you been saying your 400 watts of T5 can outperform a 1000w HPS? I call bullshit on that all day. You haven't even posted pics, at least not any that prove that it happened. If 400w of T5 can do that, everyone would be using them.

Vipar flat out said they were from Evergrow, and I said they were from Evergrow, he confirmed that, and if you compare pics from both of their websites, you'll see the same spectrum and layout. Evergrow was using that same spectrum in 2011, before Vipar was around. If he wants people to believe something else, that's his business. But he should be ready to prove it, customers are getting pretty wise to LED tomfoolery.

Not even 20 minutes ago, you were recommending A51 to people, and the second I correct something you said about me, you get all pissy and want to argue and talk crazy.

Since you couldn't win the argument about Astir, you want to bring up Vipar? You just like to argue, that's all. But you're just a coward hiding behind a keyboard and talks crazy to anyone that disagrees with you and you argue with them until they get bored of you.

I'm not going to continue this argument for too much longer, if you'd like though, why don't you call me on the phone? Number's on the website. I'd love to talk to you. Internet arguing is not fun for me. But setting you straight on the phone would be entertaining. In person would be even more fun.

hyroot said:

No he corrected a lot of what you said all he confirmed was they were from evergrow like your older models.

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I reiterated whit you said. I used the vipar post of an example of when you are wrong. He said yours we're from vipar. I was.restating what he said. He even said he planned on sending you business but he won't after the way you portrayed yourself. With the Apollos I told you which agent at cidly told me that they made your lights. I didn't go around spouting that off. I even said then I guess I was wrong to believe them. That turned me off from Apollo. That was when inwas aking you about casings. I never said anything bad about your lights. Infact I think they are awesome and you guys have the best warranty.

You are twisting my words. Everyone on here who has been here long enough has read those all anyway.

I don't need to win shit. We both know along with everyone else on here. You are not kanye either

Whatever you say...

If you think I'm wrong, that's fine.

I tell it like it is. I do not censor myself. If reseller companies do not like that I tell their potential customers where they can get the same light for 2/3 of the price, I do not care, what are they going to do, beat me up? Make fake accounts to troll me on here like we've seen a few times before? I dare people to try either. I'm not hard to find, and internet trolls can be pretty entertaining.

Some people just do not like the truth, especially if it hurts their wallets.

In any case, EH, if you don't mind, what kind of improvements did you see as you removed blue chips and went with whites? Healthier plants, increased yields? I am debating blue vs whites on my own DIY project.

numbers mean nothing!

just becuase someone said / showed doesn't mean anything. that's one person's situation


things affecting weight:

-chip placement
-chip count
-wattage of chip
-cooling setup
-chip BIN
-time chip has been used
-spectrum of chip / chips
-lens' / no lens'
-height from plants
-temp of room
-days in flower
-feed nutes or flush
-veg time of plants
-strain of plant
-nutes
-pot size
-media
-pests or not
-days of drying / drying style ( leafs on / days / RH in room / temp in room ... )
-method of style ( SOG / SCROG / single / LST / topped .......... )
-grower "skill ( how long growing, same strain dialed in ............................................................................. )


among many others...

Yes, I know, but all things considered...the top grows all had panels with dedicated blue chips. Unless you're saying only the good growers are using blues?

I did see good results on one of the Astir threads though.

Eraserhead said:

And here's some from AT. Can't tell what the name brand is, but they do not look cheap.

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I ofund the LED they use, it's the nichia line.

look a this pic to compare:

pepperdust said:

I ofund the LED they use, it's the nichia line.

look a this pic to compare:

View attachment 2716344

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Watch out. AT might send you into space for spilling the beans. Lol

brotherjericho said:

Yes, I know, but all things considered...the top grows all had panels with dedicated blue chips. Unless you're saying only the good growers are using blues? I did see good results on one of the Astir threads though.

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Blues dies are very efficient and paired with the right reds, produce weed. Their efficiency is one of the reasons blue is used as the pump for whites. Also quality blues are easier to cool than most whites, so there should be less heat to deal with but you don't get those extra spectrums, and in the case of WWs spectrum, the very usable 620-630 spectrums. Of course using too much blue can be very bad, so the muted blue of the white is a plus in some scenarios. Also growing with R+B has been around longer than people using whites growing, so probably there are some reasons the blue crew gets some big buds from their tents than just using blue. I'm still skeptical about Astir. I'll feel better about them when I see more people using them. So as much as it was interesting to hear what EH said about them, I'm still on the fence. It's not that I don't trust them, I think there are better solutions. Still, ya do get a heatsink for life. LOL

does anyone know if there is a program that you can experiment with different colour combinations to find out what spectrums they produce? Im about to start building a whites and red panel and i think i might have a good combination i was just wanting to see what i might end up with.

This one's alright, imo:

http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/