What's wrong with socialism?

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
Eating a cheeseburger? No, I think a better example would be the people running off with other people's life savings, totally leaving them fucked - to fund an extravagant lifestyle. How many times have we heard about that sort of thing lately? Unfortunately, a lot of people in our society have made it their number one priority to gather as much wealth as possible, not caring how it affects other.

So is wanting to eat a cheeseburger instead of tofu greed? Is wanting to have the money to pay to put food on your table greed? Do you get a paycheck at work doob? Do you pay your bills with it? You greedy fucker!!
 

sunshine17542

Well-Known Member
Capitalism is driven by greed. is greed not one of the seven deadly sins?

Is "love they neighbor as thyself" not one of the 10 commandments?

Here's a Christian take on socialism

http://blog.beliefnet.com/progressiverevival/2009/09/thanks-glenn-beck---this-socia.html
The seven deadly sins are human nature, they are what make this world great. However if they control your life then they will lead to your demise. you have to learn to control yourself. There is nothing wrong with wanting more, its only bad when you hurt other people by doing it. And you are not suppose to covet your neighbors possessions. It says nothing about love thy neighbor as thyself, that is treat others how you would want to be treated. We learn that in elementary school. As for the ten commandments many other religions have the same rules. Even Islam, if you read the Quran you can find these 10 same rules. It seems to me that you value material things more than life. You think everyone is equal if we all have the same things.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
The problems with society come from people. No matter what type of government or economy you have people are the only variable. People are greedy, they lie, cheat and steal. People create their own problems and we are the ones that have to change. If people followed the ten commandments and stayed away from the seven deadly sins this world would be a wonderful place. Whether you believe in God or not and it doesn't really matter what religion you come from if everyone followed these basic rules everything would be fine.

Okay, first you say the seven deadly sins are what's driving the country DOWN, then you contradict yourself and say they are what makes this country GREAT?

Make up your mind, already.

Greed makes our country great? How so?

Gluttony makes our country great? Please explain the logic behind this statement.

SLOTH makes our country great?

Well, I think you get the point.
 

sunshine17542

Well-Known Member
Okay, first you say the seven deadly sins are what's driving the country DOWN, then you contradict yourself and say they are what makes this country GREAT?

Make up your mind, already.

Greed makes our country great? How so?

Gluttony makes our country great? Please explain the logic behind this statement.

SLOTH makes our country great?

Well, I think you get the point.
I never said anything about the country, I said world. But really I meant to say that they make life great. Greed drives us to have a better standard of living. Gluttony is over-indulgence. Everyone always eats a ton on Thanksgiving, but if you did it everyday you would get really fat. They are in essence bad, but they make life what life is. I also said they are human nature and you have to learn to control yourself. No one is perfect. Pride is also a sin. You seem very prideful to me, but I am not one to judge.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
man oh man...

the guys that blindly endorse capitalism have no idea of it's implications.

when capitalism was conceived, multinational corporations were non-existent. capitalism works if there are no monopolies, if companies are engaged in few industries. Capitalism is supposed to assume a lot of people have control of different aspects of the entire market.

NOW what's happening is mega-corporations are emerging. General Electric (for example), they manufacture things, they have a media wing (NBC), they own stores, distribution channels, have operations in multiple countries, sales and cash flows = to more than twice or three times the poorest 15% of the nations of the world....

Pure Capitalism and republicans assume trickle down economics works. It did, when manufacturing happened in the US. Now theres a "funnel up" economics in place. These corporations have outsourced so many of it's operations that their money is no longer flowing down to the people, but the people's money is flowing up to the corporations, because prices keep rising and costs are being cut.

it has reached a point that mega-corporations control so much wealth, so many distribution channels, so much land, so much everything that these have replaced the average american as the primary constituents of the american government.

So basically the voting process is just a mirage, it's just so americans can feel good. These corporations have the capitol building and white house by the balls and will not let go. The only possible way to bring power back to the people is to engage in socialistic policies that break-up "too big to fail" companies. As long as these companies exist and operate, there is no reason to go to the polls and vote, no matter who wins, big conglomo, and board rooms are the ones that decide what happens in this country, not the president, not congress, and more importantly: not the people.

but no, the big "S" word. oooooooh, watch out, we will turn into the USSR. give me a break....


this is supposed to be the country that exemplifies democracy, that democracy has gone down the tubes.

Weed is a perfect example, millions of people smoke grass, and it is still illegal. More people use weed than Ambien, Lunesta, Zoloft, yet those harmful substances are legal, and weed is not. Why? The government don't give a shit about the people, they care about big-pharma making money and they care about those corporations that operate Federal Prisons.

the abuse and disregard for the people is so blatant it's not even funny, yet republicans staunchly defend it.

it's like they say: HEY, SOCIALISM IS WRONG. I LIKE IT WHEN BIG CORPORATIONS MAKE ALL THE MONEY. I MIGHT LIVE IN A TRAILER PARK BUT AT LEAST THERE'S CEO'STHAT HAVE PRIVATE JETS. LEAVE THOSE CEOS ALONE, THEY NEED THEIR LUXURY.

the founding fathers have to be trembling in their graves with what the US has turned into....
 

The Warlord

Well-Known Member
I've read several posts in this thread saying look to the scandanavian or european socialist countries as shining examples of socialism.

Heres a copy and paste quote from the socialist party website: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/News2Frame.htm?socialistcountries.htm


"Are there any socialist countries in Europe?

Sometimes countries have governments that call themselves 'Socialist,' but they do not carry out genuine socialist policies.
For instance, in the past the Labour Party in Britain was often labeled "socialist". When the Labour Party was in government, people sometimes used to say "We have a socialist government," and even that Britain was socialist.
But this was not true. Labour governments did not go beyond the boundaries of capitalism. The country remained capitalist.
In Spain and in France, and elsewhere around the world there are parties that go by the name of 'Socialist' and they have been elected into government.
When the French Socialist Party was in government, it was called a 'Socialist government', and we were told France had 'gone socialist.' This was not true.
When the Spanish Socialist Party was returned to power in 2004, (because of its opposition to the invasion of Iraq,) it did not and will not bring about a socialist society.
In Germany and other countries, parties going by the name 'Social Democratic' were sometimes referred to as socialist.
But this was not true either.
These countries remained capitalist through and through."

LOL, according to the socialist party there are no true socialist countries in europe as has been claimed so often by people on this website. you'd think the socialists would know. :peace:
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
man oh man...

the guys that blindly endorse capitalism have no idea of it's implications.



it's like they say: HEY, SOCIALISM IS WRONG. I LIKE IT WHEN BIG CORPORATIONS MAKE ALL THE MONEY. I MIGHT LIVE IN A TRAILER PARK BUT AT LEAST THERE'S CEO'STHAT HAVE PRIVATE JETS. LEAVE THOSE CEOS ALONE, THEY NEED THEIR LUXURY.

the founding fathers have to be trembling in their graves with what the US has turned into....

Precisely.

To sunshine: I am proud of myself, but not proud of my country and what it's become. As a collective, America feeds itself on pride. We have an inflated sense of self-worth, and look down our noses at anyone who doesn't agree with our self-important view of ourselves. We like to contend that America is great because we are free, well, freedom is a loose term and there are many nations who enjoy freedoms that we, in America, do not.

Remember that it wasn't so long ago that Americans advocated slavery, which is the exact opposite of freedom. Now we advocate slavery in a different form - voluntary servitude to the corporations that are, in essence, dictatorial microcosms in which freedom is rationed and workers are exploited for the monetary gain of the men in the corner offices.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
I've read several posts in this thread saying look to the scandanavian or european socialist countries as shining examples of socialism.

Heres a copy and paste quote from the socialist party website: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/News2Frame.htm?socialistcountries.htm


"Are there any socialist countries in Europe?

Sometimes countries have governments that call themselves 'Socialist,' but they do not carry out genuine socialist policies.
For instance, in the past the Labour Party in Britain was often labeled "socialist". When the Labour Party was in government, people sometimes used to say "We have a socialist government," and even that Britain was socialist.
But this was not true. Labour governments did not go beyond the boundaries of capitalism. The country remained capitalist.
In Spain and in France, and elsewhere around the world there are parties that go by the name of 'Socialist' and they have been elected into government.
When the French Socialist Party was in government, it was called a 'Socialist government', and we were told France had 'gone socialist.' This was not true.
When the Spanish Socialist Party was returned to power in 2004, (because of its opposition to the invasion of Iraq,) it did not and will not bring about a socialist society.
In Germany and other countries, parties going by the name 'Social Democratic' were sometimes referred to as socialist.
But this was not true either.
These countries remained capitalist through and through."

LOL, according to the socialist party there are no true socialist countries in europe as has been claimed so often by people on this website. you'd think the socialists would know. :peace:

There is a difference between countries run by a "socialist" government, and countries that subscribe to socialist ideals.

just because a country doesn't "officially" name itself a "socialist" country, doesn't mean they don't subscribe to socialist ideals.

We are hip-deep in socialism here in the US, but because there has never been a self-proclaimed socialist in the White House - we have never been considered a "socialist state".

There is also a huge difference between socialism as an economic theory and socialism as a political movement.
 

AlBundy

Active Member
For one thing, in socialism, the government controls the means of production. You work your butt off while the other 10 people are lazy...you get nowhere. Socialism takes initiative away for there is no reward. That sucks. And the tax rate is very high.

You say socialists don't go to war as much and don't have big defense appropriations....that is true, they expect the US to do because we can afford it due to be capitalists. What country do you think did all the defense for Europe during the cold war and the war on terrorism???? Us, and the europeans (governments) expect us to.

The US is not a democracy and has never been...We are a representative republic. There is a difference. Democracy is illustrated by parliments. Ever watch a fight in a parliment...total disarry.

No thanks, I like capitalism, I like the representative form of government. If you like socialism, move to a country in Europe, you will "love" the tax rates. Socialism is for lazy fuckers.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
For one thing, in socialism, the government controls the means of production. You work your butt off while the other 10 people are lazy...you get nowhere. Socialism takes initiative away for there is no reward. That sucks. And the tax rate is very high.

You say socialists don't go to war as much and don't have big defense appropriations....that is true, they expect the US to do because we can afford it due to be capitalists. What country do you think did all the defense for Europe during the cold war and the war on terrorism???? Us, and the europeans (governments) expect us to.

The US is not a democracy and has never been...We are a representative republic. There is a difference. Democracy is illustrated by parliments. Ever watch a fight in a parliment...total disarry.

No thanks, I like capitalism, I like the representative form of government. If you like socialism, move to a country in Europe, you will "love" the tax rates. Socialism is for lazy fuckers.

Wrong. Try again when you have at least a partial grasp of what socialism actually is, instead of regurgitating the anti-socialist sentiment spewed forth by the corporatist GOP.

You realize the "cold war" and the "war on terrorism" are both US wars, right? We forced them on the rest of the world, then purport to "protect" them from it? Ridiculous.

NEWSFLASH: we cannot afford the war.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
this is america

there will not be socialism in america no matter how bad you want it


it would be just begging for a full scale revolt, its like asking the people to rise up
 

sunshine17542

Well-Known Member
Precisely.

To sunshine: I am proud of myself, but not proud of my country and what it's become. As a collective, America feeds itself on pride. We have an inflated sense of self-worth, and look down our noses at anyone who doesn't agree with our self-important view of ourselves. We like to contend that America is great because we are free, well, freedom is a loose term and there are many nations who enjoy freedoms that we, in America, do not.

Remember that it wasn't so long ago that Americans advocated slavery, which is the exact opposite of freedom. Now we advocate slavery in a different form - voluntary servitude to the corporations that are, in essence, dictatorial microcosms in which freedom is rationed and workers are exploited for the monetary gain of the men in the corner offices.
First of all, not all Americans are like that. No other country has the freedoms that we have. Secondly, slavery was stupid and it shouldn't have happened. The people that endorsed it were ignorant, but its over with now. Some corporations are bad, but many are not. Most corporations do not exploit their employees. Corporations are mostly good. Walmart was pretty bad years ago, but they are doing better and are changing the way they do business because they know people were sick of how they were acting. I'm sure you are going to have something bad to say about Walmart, but they are trying to change. Large corporations keep prices in check and offer things that small business cannot. I can buy a box of Kashi cereal at walmart for $2.84 and Meijers (the stores by me) have them for $3.50. Walmart offers all the necessities that people need for a good price, something small businesses can't do. Again the problems don't stem from corporations or governments, they come from people. People have to learn to do the right thing and not be so greedy. Years ago business forced workers to work more hours than they could and eventually people got smart and formed labor unions. Now labor unions are so greedy that they forced manufacturing right out of America to other countries. LIke I said before no matter what type of government or economy you have people are still going to be greedy and people will still want power. You could have a socialist country and there would always be someone that would want to be in control and have the power and wealth. It's better to keep the individual empowered and not the collective. When it comes down to it people are the ones that make their own problems. Everyone is created equally and we should all have the same rights and for the most part we all do in America. There are still some things that need to change, but they will come with time. Some people may need to work longer or harder than others to have a decent standard of living, but that doesn't mean they are worth any less than a CEO. They are just as important. It just seems to me that you value material things more than living. That people will be equal when we all have a nice car and house, but you don't need nice things to be happy or to enjoy life. If certain companies are doing wrong, then we can boycott them and they will change. People need to work to create real wealth so they can have a better standard of living. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor doesn't create real wealth, but it just makes people dependent on other people. If you are dependent on other people you lose your freedoms, not all, but some... it depends on the situation. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't lend a hand when someone is in need. It all comes down to how people act.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
this is america

there will not be socialism in america no matter how bad you want it


it would be just begging for a full scale revolt, its like asking the people to rise up

You're living in a fantasy. there already exists socialism in America (lots of it, in fact) , you just refuse to believe it.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
You're living in a fantasy. there already exists socialism in America (lots of it, in fact) , you just refuse to believe it.
i never denied that socialist qualities are springing up, the more time goes by the faster and faster it goes


i just dont see why you feel the need to put on the skirt and carry the pom poms and be such a big cheerleader for something that 70% or so of adult americans obviously dont want


give me an S

give me an O

give me a National socialist.... oh shit what else were they called again?
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
i never denied that socialist qualities are springing up, the more time goes by the faster and faster it goes


i just dont see why you feel the need to put on the skirt and carry the pom poms and be such a big cheerleader for something that 70% or so of adult americans obviously dont want


give me an S

give me an O

give me a National socialist.... oh shit what else were they called again?

70% or so of adult americans don't want Medicare? Public schools? emergency services? INSURANCE?

I find that hard to believe. Please provide a source that says 70% of Americans are against these things.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
70% or so of adult americans don't want Medicare? Public schools? emergency services? INSURANCE?

I find that hard to believe. Please provide a source that says 70% of Americans are against these things.

i speak of total socialism, not socialistic programs and institutions

i mean a 100% transfer from semi caitalism to total socialism


what percentage of people, in your opinion, would celebrate this change?
 

sunshine17542

Well-Known Member

Okay you are honestly getting annoying and I don't mean to be rude or anything. Yes other countries have lots of freedoms, but America has the most freedoms. People do as they please here and a lot of other countries are not like that. If you don't like America than move to another country. This is what I mean by you being prideful. You try to belittle people like you are so much better and smarter than everyone else, but you are no better than anyone here, so stop acting like it. I also think its funny how you can't say anything good about what I said either because I know I said some good things.
 
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