doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Oliver V US was the precedent for allowing police searches of private property without a warrant (excluding the area immediately around the home) even if there are "no trespassing" signs posted.
What's wrong with socialism?
- Thread starter doobnVA
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Oliver V US was the precedent for allowing police searches of private property without a warrant (excluding the area immediately around the home) even if there are "no trespassing" signs posted.
sunshine17542
Well-Known Member
Socialism, economic and social doctrine, political movement inspired by this doctrine, and system or order established when this doctrine is organized in a society. The socialist doctrine demands state ownership and control of the fundamental means of production and distribution of wealth, to be achieved by reconstruction of the existing capitalist or other political system of a country through peaceful, democratic, and parliamentary means. The doctrine specifically advocates nationalization of natural resources, basic industries, banking and credit facilities, and public utilities. It places special emphasis on the nationalization of monopolized branches of industry and trade, viewing monopolies as inimical to the public welfare. It also advocates state ownership of corporations in which the ownership function has passed from stockholders to managerial personnel. Smaller and less vital enterprises would be left under private ownership, and privately held cooperatives would be encouraged.
Microsoft ® Encarta ® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Socialism is bad because I don't need the government or anyone else telling me how I should live my life. God created all men equally it has nothing to do with socialism.
Microsoft ® Encarta ® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Socialism is bad because I don't need the government or anyone else telling me how I should live my life. God created all men equally it has nothing to do with socialism.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Socialism, economic and social system under which essential industries and social services are publicly and cooperatively owned and democratically controlled with a view to equal opportunity and equal benefit for all. The term socialism also refers to the doctrine behind this system and the political movement inspired by it.
Socialism was originally based in the working class and has generally been opposed to capitalism, which is based on private ownership and a free-market economy. Socialists have advocated nationalization (government ownership and control) of natural resources, basic industries, banking and credit institutions, and public utilities. Although the ultimate aim of early socialists was a communist or classless society (see Communism), later socialists have increasingly concentrated on social reforms within capitalism.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577990/Socialism.html#s1
Nationalization:
In broad economic terms, the governmental appropriation of property other than land, transferring it from the domain of private property to national control.
Just to clear things up for you a bit.
litteringand...
Member
socialism is basically concecration of all assets in other words the GDP and it is split "equally" in the original marx model amongst the people and the government consisting of said people own lands but we can all use it such as a state park. Every capitalism model has socialist implementations aside from "laizze Fair" (sp) which is french for hands off which isn't used anywhere to my knowledge today. For example social security, medicare, public schools, public parks etc etc. All socialist ideas.
I don't think socialism is bad however, for the most part it doesn't work and for one reason only. People are that reason. Socialism is easier to corrupt and most people will do things according to whats good for them. Which is how we have evolved similar to gorging ourselves on food when it's there because it is our animal instinct. Just look at most state parks or public forums say the movie theaters people make an absolute mess because there is no ownership of said property. Therefore, it doesn't benefit us to clean it up. This is for the majority by the way so don't pm me and say you are the one person that spills a soda at the movies and goes and gets towels from the restroom. Anyhow given the right people it would work very well. Unfortunatly rich and poor alike are never happy with their material value (greed) or social status.
I don't think socialism is bad however, for the most part it doesn't work and for one reason only. People are that reason. Socialism is easier to corrupt and most people will do things according to whats good for them. Which is how we have evolved similar to gorging ourselves on food when it's there because it is our animal instinct. Just look at most state parks or public forums say the movie theaters people make an absolute mess because there is no ownership of said property. Therefore, it doesn't benefit us to clean it up. This is for the majority by the way so don't pm me and say you are the one person that spills a soda at the movies and goes and gets towels from the restroom. Anyhow given the right people it would work very well. Unfortunatly rich and poor alike are never happy with their material value (greed) or social status.
hom36rown
Well-Known Member
Socialism and totalitarianism are not the same thing, but they certainly go hand in hand. Socialism amounts to bigger government, with more coercive powers...which amounts to the loss of political, economic, and human rights. History has shown us this much.
Actual socialism is a lot different than social programs. And the constitution does not have socialist influence, all of the founding fathers were firm believers in private property.
hippietoker18
Active Member
whats wrong with socialism is that they make everyone equal and take the money from the rich and give it to the poor. that seems right.....but its not. because the rich just say hey if i try hard and then get it taken away whats the point of trying. and if i dont try ill still get the same. so people just dont try. and then the economy fails
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
1-socialism, as quoted from wikipedia:
'direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.'
2- looks good on paper but doenst take the human factor into consideration, ambition, greed, personal gain,outside influence, and power factions all combine to make it (socialism) impractical in reality.
JimmyPot
Well-Known Member
Socialism is a word that the right is using now to put fear in people about the left and Obama mostly.It is a tactic they are using because you cant call Obama stupid or a bad speaker like Bush.It is the right grasping for straws.Like it or not there is nothing the right can do to stop the black vote.Obama is hear to stay the full two terms.
TwinTigerz
Well-Known Member
Equal footing in life with Equal opportunity.
I don't I am a socialist
.
I don't I am a socialist
.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
You guys have all been misled.. You're thinking of Marxist-Lenninist theories, which peg "socialism" as a stepping stone to communism.
This is NOT the only kind of "socialism". Democratic socialists want to put the power BACK in the hands of the people (taking it out of the hands of wealthy corporations AND the government).
Isn't this what WE ALL want?
This is NOT the only kind of "socialism". Democratic socialists want to put the power BACK in the hands of the people (taking it out of the hands of wealthy corporations AND the government).
Isn't this what WE ALL want?
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
I would rather we had the old republic back myself. I like owning my own property and being the king of my own castle. I also like the fact that if anyone tries to come and snuff out my life or steal my hard earned property I can throw a few .308 rounds their way and not have to go to prison for defending myself.
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
Its pointless to argue about the definition of Socialism. Socialism has historically been a failure and nearly always tied to horrible human rights violations. Even China (a country with an atrocious human rights record) is moving toward Capitalism. Russia, once poor and depressed now has a booming economy since adopting Capitalism. Academically, if you want to understand why it fails you can look at things like the free rider and collective action problems. These also explain why the success of Socialism is inversely proportional to the size of the group and the groups cohesion. I don't know much about the Government in Scandinavia but they are much smaller Countries with homogeneous populations. They don't have 300 million people with a good number of them being dependent on the state for several generations.
On another note, I'm wondering where people are getting this notion that Capitalism is anything less than a complete success. Is it just because of the current economic crisis which was, by the way, caused by a Socialist style endeavor by Clinton who made radical changes to the CRA that required banks by law to give risky sub-prime loans?
Is it because there are so many poor people? Well, guess what; the poorest people in America have a standard of living that is among the highest in the world. Plus, the poor can and do escape poverty if and when they work hard and stay on the right path; this is only possible do to Capitalism. Socialism on the other hand is the best way to ensure poverty and crush ambition. Just go visit an Indian reservation and you will see what subsidizing people's existence does.
You know, I have been poor nearly all my life. It was not until I learned that the only way to make it was to put my nose to the grind stone and make things happen for myself that I became successful. Along with a friend we started a business on a shoe string budget and we built that business into a thriving corporation. I now sit behind a desk and earn a six figure income. Now do you think its fair to come to a guy like me and tell me you are going to take away what I have worked hard to build and give it to the criminals that broke into my building and stole thousands in tools and equipment from me? Are you telling me that its my fault these people are poor when they wouldn't take a job if I begged them?
And let me tell you, 100K a year might sound like huge money but the fact is the cost of living goes up exponentially with your standard of living. So, even with a significant increase in wage your standard of living only goes up by a small margin. Also, and something people never talk about is that life is more expensive for some than for others. Drive through Detroit and you will see $8,000 homes with $60,000 vehicles in the driveway. Obviously these people could afford health care or a better neighborhood if they chose to do so. Fact is, they have different priorities and they choose to live the way they live.
That is, when you get down to it, the crux of the issue. People are where they are in life largely due to their decisions. The way to change things is to help people make better decisions in life, not to subsidize them and give them incentive to make bad ones. The way to help people make better decisions is to lead by example and to promote Conservative values. The way to ensure they continue to make bad ones is to tell them that life is a deck stacked against them, that they can never make it in America and that they need the Government to take care of them because they can't do it on their own.
Despite what you hear on the Left wing blogs, people are still coming to America for a chance at a better life and becoming successful. I work with these people and see it every day. What Socialist Country has the influx of immigration equal to that of the US?
On another note, I'm wondering where people are getting this notion that Capitalism is anything less than a complete success. Is it just because of the current economic crisis which was, by the way, caused by a Socialist style endeavor by Clinton who made radical changes to the CRA that required banks by law to give risky sub-prime loans?
Is it because there are so many poor people? Well, guess what; the poorest people in America have a standard of living that is among the highest in the world. Plus, the poor can and do escape poverty if and when they work hard and stay on the right path; this is only possible do to Capitalism. Socialism on the other hand is the best way to ensure poverty and crush ambition. Just go visit an Indian reservation and you will see what subsidizing people's existence does.
You know, I have been poor nearly all my life. It was not until I learned that the only way to make it was to put my nose to the grind stone and make things happen for myself that I became successful. Along with a friend we started a business on a shoe string budget and we built that business into a thriving corporation. I now sit behind a desk and earn a six figure income. Now do you think its fair to come to a guy like me and tell me you are going to take away what I have worked hard to build and give it to the criminals that broke into my building and stole thousands in tools and equipment from me? Are you telling me that its my fault these people are poor when they wouldn't take a job if I begged them?
And let me tell you, 100K a year might sound like huge money but the fact is the cost of living goes up exponentially with your standard of living. So, even with a significant increase in wage your standard of living only goes up by a small margin. Also, and something people never talk about is that life is more expensive for some than for others. Drive through Detroit and you will see $8,000 homes with $60,000 vehicles in the driveway. Obviously these people could afford health care or a better neighborhood if they chose to do so. Fact is, they have different priorities and they choose to live the way they live.
That is, when you get down to it, the crux of the issue. People are where they are in life largely due to their decisions. The way to change things is to help people make better decisions in life, not to subsidize them and give them incentive to make bad ones. The way to help people make better decisions is to lead by example and to promote Conservative values. The way to ensure they continue to make bad ones is to tell them that life is a deck stacked against them, that they can never make it in America and that they need the Government to take care of them because they can't do it on their own.
Despite what you hear on the Left wing blogs, people are still coming to America for a chance at a better life and becoming successful. I work with these people and see it every day. What Socialist Country has the influx of immigration equal to that of the US?
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Do you know WHY it is that our poor have a higher standard of living than poor people in other countries?
Socialism.
Right here in the United States.
The minimum wage? That's socialism at work.
Tax credits? Socialism.
Public assistance programs? Socialism.
Subsidized college tuition? Socialism!
Socialism is not necessarily anti-capitalism. Did you know that most democratic societies (besides the US) have OPENLY socialist influences? We have those influences, too, but we generally don't use the "S" word when describing them (mostly because the "S" word is misunderstood as being the same thing as communism - which isn't the case). This is the result of years of spin from the GOP, who have brainwashed their party to believe socialism must ALWAYS be a stepping stone to communism or nationalization.
One only needs to take an honest look at some initiatives put forth by our members of Congress who are part of the Progressive caucus or members of the Democratic Socialist party to see that it's THEY who have our best interests in mind.
Of course, it takes an OPEN MIND to consider that socialism may not be as bad as the republican leaders have led you to believe - something you obviously do not possess.
Keep being an advocate for corporatism, and see where it leads you. To believe that a wealthy corporation has your best interests in mind is akin to willfully donating yourself to slavery.
Socialism.
Right here in the United States.
The minimum wage? That's socialism at work.
Tax credits? Socialism.
Public assistance programs? Socialism.
Subsidized college tuition? Socialism!
Socialism is not necessarily anti-capitalism. Did you know that most democratic societies (besides the US) have OPENLY socialist influences? We have those influences, too, but we generally don't use the "S" word when describing them (mostly because the "S" word is misunderstood as being the same thing as communism - which isn't the case). This is the result of years of spin from the GOP, who have brainwashed their party to believe socialism must ALWAYS be a stepping stone to communism or nationalization.
One only needs to take an honest look at some initiatives put forth by our members of Congress who are part of the Progressive caucus or members of the Democratic Socialist party to see that it's THEY who have our best interests in mind.
Of course, it takes an OPEN MIND to consider that socialism may not be as bad as the republican leaders have led you to believe - something you obviously do not possess.
Keep being an advocate for corporatism, and see where it leads you. To believe that a wealthy corporation has your best interests in mind is akin to willfully donating yourself to slavery.
JimmyPot
Well-Known Member
Rick White I can honestly say you are the poster child for the right.Anybody that smokes pot and supports the right is an idiot though.Do you think the right would even care about you in any kind of way if the people you vote for knew you smoked pot?Are you a cop?Take your local major out to the golf course(Right wing sport)And light up a joint see how much they like you then.Defending a group of people who would lock you up like a rapist for smoking weed shows you have been brain washed to highest level.I have seen a number of your post.You need to stop smoking weed and start drinking whiskey.Should you be taxed a little more to help out your fellow man sure you should.It will not do anything to your quality of life.When you live in a country that makes it possible to work hard and be rewarded for it by a six figure income, it takes a certain kind of evil to say I make enough money to have insurance screw all the trash that doesn't.Having more money then most of the people in your country means you can have a nicer car then most a nicer house go on vacations more comforts period.It also takes a rare person that you will never be that puts some of those needless comforts aside to help others not so fortunate.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Let's see... countries with higher percentages of immigrant citizens than the US:
Saudi Arabia
Canada
Australia
United Arab Emirates
Hong Kong (People's Republic of China)
Israel
Jordan
Kazahkstan
Singapore
Kuwait
Switzerland
Austria
Croatia
New Zealand
Ireland
Latvia
Bahrain
There are more, but the list is already pretty long. Not that these are all "socialist" countries, but they are countries with a higher percentage of immigrant citizens than the United States.
Saudi Arabia
Canada
Australia
United Arab Emirates
Hong Kong (People's Republic of China)
Israel
Jordan
Kazahkstan
Singapore
Kuwait
Switzerland
Austria
Croatia
New Zealand
Ireland
Latvia
Bahrain
There are more, but the list is already pretty long. Not that these are all "socialist" countries, but they are countries with a higher percentage of immigrant citizens than the United States.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Here's an interesting read:
http://www.thenewiq.com/integritywatch-blog/what-they-dont-want-you-know-about-capitalism-socialism
http://www.thenewiq.com/integritywatch-blog/what-they-dont-want-you-know-about-capitalism-socialism
sunshine17542
Well-Known Member
I like the free market, I don't want anything to be publicly owned that's dumb.
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
If you don't have an argument, attack the person. How typical.
sunshine17542
Well-Known Member
To think that the government has your best interest is stupid. The only person that has your best interest is yourself.