What’s going on here ?

Honyuk96

Active Member
First time going organic. Upon advise i got here, i started these beans as follows. I’m in pro mix hp ammended w doctor earth dry nutes as per their instructions. i also added 20% worm castings. This veg mix is more heavy on the 4 4 4 than the flower girl. Plain water, not ph’d. the mix cooked for exactly 30 days. These are THE slowest starters i have ever had. ( i’m used to salts and coco ) is this mix just waaay too hot for these seeds i started ? That is my thought. They don’t look horrible but they don’t look ideal. Do you think these will come around and make it ? They continue to grow daily, they just don’t look like they should. Appreciate any thoughts/ideas here. Thank you
193E83BA-BAEE-4E10-9470-ED003793FE8D.jpeg
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
Looks like really wet feet. Do you have adequate drainage holes? And if so definitely overwatering either way.

And promix and castings with just a 444 and flower girl nutrient won’t get you very fair in organics.

What application rates did you use?
 

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
i second that wet feet diagnosis but gotta disagree with the ewc and 444 is not gonna get you very far argument because i dont really know what is meant by that. what would you suggest @green_machine_two9er what is your mix?
 

bam0813

Well-Known Member
Also I hear alot of knowledgeable growers say coco and salt is the fastest growing method, maybe not a good/ fair comparison to true organic. That does look soaked even see green
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
i second that wet feet diagnosis but gotta disagree with the ewc and 444 is not gonna get you very far argument because i dont really know what is meant by that. what would you suggest @green_machine_two9er what is your mix?
Diversity is what I suggest. And a plan for long term success/ sustainability.

I would never grow in amended soils if I was not planning for years of use. The soils only get better but you need a vastly diverse original build.

Heavy on minerals 4cups. ( basalt, rock dust, azomite et).

2-3 cups meals. ( kelp alfalfa. Crab neam.)

1 cup gypsum
1 cup oyster
1 cup brown rice or malted barley.

Base of this mix is 1/3 castings. 1/3 perlite 1/3 peat so to account for the perlite in promix it’s about 2.5 g ewc. 1.5g perlite. 3.5g promix.

Reammnd for years. Never have to add minerals again for about a decade. But 1/4 a1/2 total volume of meals as needed, usually decided based off previous harvests.

It’s not rocket science but does take a large buffet all open at the same time to properly feed cannibus with organics.
 

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
Diversity is what I suggest. And a plan for long term success/ sustainability.

I would never grow in amended soils if I was not planning for years of use. The soils only get better but you need a vastly diverse original build.

Heavy on minerals 4cups. ( basalt, rock dust, azomite et).

2-3 cups meals. ( kelp alfalfa. Crab neam.)

1 cup gypsum
1 cup oyster
1 cup brown rice or malted barley.

Base of this mix is 1/3 castings. 1/3 perlite 1/3 peat so to account for the perlite in promix it’s about 2.5 g ewc. 1.5g perlite. 3.5g promix.

Reammnd for years. Never have to add minerals again for about a decade. But 1/4 a1/2 total volume of meals as needed, usually decided based off previous harvests.

It’s not rocket science but does take a large buffet all open at the same time to properly feed cannibus with organics.
i gotta say diversity is better of course but not an absolute. homemade ewc is potent but gentle. i’ve never tried it but i should do a side by side with just my ewc and coco mix versus a diverse mix or bagged soil. having said that i feed plant matter to my worms. aloe, spirulina, stinging nettles, feed oats, wheat bran etc in small amounts, give them a lot of coffee to compost, fruit peels etc. i add scorcia dust to the bin, eggshells and every bit of cannabis i’m not using after harvest. leaves stems larf they all get composted.

all the stuff contained in like basalt, azomite and rock dust etc. are already accumulated in these plants i’m composting in the bin. they’re in a plant available form on top of that. like azomite can contain 70+ minerals but does cannabis even need all those minerals. besides, things like basalt azomite etc. they’ve been here for millions of years right, they havent decomposed or whatever during that timespan, so they’re not super plant available even if in dust form. i dont see this a drawback tho, just something i wanted to point out. maybe its better that it can slowly leach minerals over a decade.

having said that composting healthy plants in a worm bin can and will add any minerals and nutrients you need to grow a healthy plant. i see people building soils with 30-35 ingredients. thats madness imo. you need a good base substrate, rich ewc, some complete “fertilizer” like a balanced bat guano and that can grow healthy plants easily. people just complicate stuff for themselves imo.

i do like the ingredients you’re using dont get me wrong. and there is nothing wrong with diversity, i do the same thing but in my worm bin. then the ewc is just the tits. storebought ewc is a different story of course.
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
i gotta say diversity is better of course but not an absolute. homemade ewc is potent but gentle. i’ve never tried it but i should do a side by side with just my ewc and coco mix versus a diverse mix or bagged soil. having said that i feed plant matter to my worms. aloe, spirulina, stinging nettles, feed oats, wheat bran etc in small amounts, give them a lot of coffee to compost, fruit peels etc. i add scorcia dust to the bin, eggshells and every bit of cannabis i’m not using after harvest. leaves stems larf they all get composted.

all the stuff contained in like basalt, azomite and rock dust etc. are already accumulated in these plants i’m composting in the bin. they’re in a plant available form on top of that. like azomite can contain 70+ minerals but does cannabis even need all those minerals. besides, things like basalt azomite etc. they’ve been here for millions of years right, they havent decomposed or whatever during that timespan, so they’re not super plant available even if in dust form. i dont see this a drawback tho, just something i wanted to point out. maybe its better that it can slowly leach minerals over a decade.

having said that composting healthy plants in a worm bin can and will add any minerals and nutrients you need to grow a healthy plant. i see people building soils with 30-35 ingredients. thats madness imo. you need a good base substrate, rich ewc, some complete “fertilizer” like a balanced bat guano and that can grow healthy plants easily. people just complicate stuff for themselves imo.

i do like the ingredients you’re using dont get me wrong. and there is nothing wrong with diversity, i do the same thing but in my worm bin. then the ewc is just the tits. storebought ewc is a different story of course.
Coot himself always said it doesn’t matter if you use his recipe cause you’ll never has his castings. Very true the quality of compost is the key to it all.
 

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
Coot himself always said it doesn’t matter if you use his recipe cause you’ll never has his castings. Very true the quality of compost is the key to it all.
i swear i’m gonna try it. i’m now running my 2x2 with this mix: coco coir, ewc, basalt, bat guano (3-4-3) and i’m seeing a tiny bit of tip burn with just straight water. if i’d have not used the guano maybe they would be just perfect. yeah ewc is the king when you really show some love to the bin. i’ve decided to try this out next run and gonna see how it goes.
 

Honyuk96

Active Member
I want to thank every one of you that has responded this far. I’m very thankful for your input. I made the switch this yr because i love organic herb but am absolutely green. Everything i have read thus far seems to promote keeping your soil moist. I’m used to coc where you let things dry out to styrofoam light between waterings. So is the general consensus that i am overwatering ? I switched to organics to keep things simple and i love organic weed. I don’t run perpetually. I run once a yr and then shut it down. I need to make it happen when i run. Please continu to help me, this organics is all new to me. I thought w the soil i built i could get through the whole run w just plain water. Uti ately, that’s what i am shooting for. Thank you
 

GreenestBasterd

Well-Known Member
Coot himself always said it doesn’t matter if you use his recipe cause you’ll never has his castings. Very true the quality of compost is the key to it all.
“You don’t have my castings” is all I ever hear when I listen to a coot talk haha.
Love the legend and all he stands for, but he loves to rub that one in.

Im also a big fan of running dry amendments through the worm bins and everything else previously mentioned above is great advice.

My soil is getting on for 3 years now and I’ve only really added back my castings, compost and small amounts of kelp and barley. It was initially built with lots of rock dusts, crustacean meal and gypsum.

Barley and soybean meal gets the worm bins going crazy.

After each run I cover crop and leave the blumats on, come next cycle there’s mini piles of castings next to each dripper head, it’s amazing to replant into and the more you do it the better the soil becomes.
 

Honyuk96

Active Member
People, i do appreciate the info, i really do, but my questions are still there. Is overwatering the big issue ? If so, please help me on a watering schedule. Yes, the solo cups have adequate drainage. I just watered after taking pics too. Watering w syringes. Been keeping things moist. Please tell me where i am going wrong and how to fix. Thank you i should add, i have another strain i started that is growing slow as well, but looks very normal.
 

GreenestBasterd

Well-Known Member
I want to thank every one of you that has responded this far. I’m very thankful for your input. I made the switch this yr because i love organic herb but am absolutely green. Everything i have read thus far seems to promote keeping your soil moist. I’m used to coc where you let things dry out to styrofoam light between waterings. So is the general consensus that i am overwatering ? I switched to organics to keep things simple and i love organic weed. I don’t run perpetually. I run once a yr and then shut it down. I need to make it happen when i run. Please continu to help me, this organics is all new to me. I thought w the soil i built i could get through the whole run w just plain water. Uti ately, that’s what i am shooting for. Thank you
The rols thread is good one to read through and there’s some incredibly talented soil growers on here who would be happy to help.

There are some great talks with people like coot you may find beneficial online.


I’d hold off watering that seedling for a few days, maybe longer, let the media dry out a bit. The roots will search for some moisture once it dries out. Then you can slowly up the water.
Make sure it’s not in a tray or dish of water too or they’ll be no air in the media.

Things take a bit longer to take off compared to coco, especially with a wet start so just try and be patient for a week or two.
Good luck.
You don’t want it moist like coco either if that helps.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Looks like they are in “hot” soil. PH is likely on the low end. The fix is to just water as normal; should green back up in a matter of weeks.
I want to thank every one of you that has responded this far. I’m very thankful for your input. I made the switch this yr because i love organic herb but am absolutely green. Everything i have read thus far seems to promote keeping your soil moist. I’m used to coc where you let things dry out to styrofoam light between waterings. So is the general consensus that i am overwatering ? I switched to organics to keep things simple and i love organic weed. I don’t run perpetually. I run once a yr and then shut it down. I need to make it happen when i run. Please continu to help me, this organics is all new to me. I thought w the soil i built i could get through the whole run w just plain water. Uti ately, that’s what i am shooting for. Thank you
You probably could but you will also need to transplant to fresh mix as the roots reach the edges of each container. Next time you start from seedlings use the promix or whatever soil you have as it is, no npk or mineral amendments are needed for seedlings. Maybe just add a little compost and perlite if doing that makes the soil too mucky. No need for npk inputs until they get some nodes. That’s when you’ll likely need to transplant anyway.
People, i do appreciate the info, i really do, but my questions are still there. Is overwatering the big issue ? If so, please help me on a watering schedule. Yes, the solo cups have adequate drainage. I just watered after taking pics too. Watering w syringes. Been keeping things moist. Please tell me where i am going wrong and how to fix. Thank you i should add, i have another strain i started that is growing slow as well, but looks very normal.
Don’t use a watering schedule; just water as needed to maintain the soil as damp as a wrung out towel. Use the weight of the container to determine if water is needed or not. At this point I suggest watering with a hand mister or watering wand. The pump up style pesticide sprayers work well if you have lotsa small plants. Nearly impossible to overwater this way. Watering from the bottom is another option if let’s say you have many clones in a tray or if planning to leave them for the weekend; a 1/4 inch layer of water in the bottom should keep them moist for days.
 

ProPheT 216

Well-Known Member
I cant tell if your plants are light green or not. I'm assuming they look fine under normal lighting. You have to remember hydroponics is faster in veg than soil. I think your just expecting hydroponic type growth, your not gonna get that, add 2 weeks to your veg for same size plant.
 

ProPheT 216

Well-Known Member
I see no curl, taco, or burnt tips. I don't think it's to hot, I think you expect what your used to but your growing different this time... and your soil does look wet af. Hopefully you just watered
 
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Honyuk96

Active Member
Following back up here again today. I absolutely feel this soil is quite hot and burning up the one strain. And the overwatering. So is the crispy one toast or do organic pros think this can come back. The other strain is nice and green and looks totally healthy. I’m bummed i took the advise of another member here and fried up two of these ladies. Pop a couple more beans or wait and see ? I’ve learned two hard organic lessons already. Thanks all. C4573FAC-245C-4FEC-B45C-872F615BEC42.jpeg2F5A58B6-B4F8-4CEB-9626-4CE31B78AA30.jpeg
 

Jjgrow420

Well-Known Member
Yep. Hot soil. Never put a seedling or small plant in full nute soil. Half strength if that. I don't even use it until I transplant into a 1 Gal.
 

TaoRich

Well-Known Member
Yep. Hot soil. Never put a seedling or small plant in full nute soil. Half strength if that. I don't even use it until I transplant into a 1 Gal.
+1

I always use 'shitty' soil in my seedling starter cups. Sandy type soil, good drainage, not rich in nutrients or water holding ability.

Slightly richer soil when they go into my 1 gallon black plastic planter bags, but still not my conditioned organic living soil.

Make the young plants work hard and send out roots in search of nutrients.

By the time they are ready to sex in their 1 gallon bags, I've got a mass root ball that holds the entire bag of soil together in one matted clump when I easily transplant my identified females into their final home - my super rich soil in 5 gallon pots.

- - -

My 2 cents

less nutrients in your starter cup soil

better (root) drainage in your starter cup soil
 

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
+1

I always use 'shitty' soil in my seedling starter cups. Sandy type soil, good drainage, not rich in nutrients or water holding ability.

Slightly richer soil when they go into my 1 gallon black plastic planter bags, but still not my conditioned organic living soil.

Make the young plants work hard and send out roots in search of nutrients.

By the time they are ready to sex in their 1 gallon bags, I've got a mass root ball that holds the entire bag of soil together in one matted clump when I easily transplant my identified females into their final home - my super rich soil in 5 gallon pots.

- - -

My 2 cents

less nutrients in your starter cup soil

better (root) drainage in your starter cup soil
Me as well. Always use unamended, spent ROLS for starts. First (and only) transplant to the hot bucket.

If it has to sit too long in the weak ROLS, can always limp it along with some tea.
 
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