Well N A, The Tankless Water Heater is the Bomb!

I hit it with a hammer and it's running again. Who do I call and what do I tell them, about getting it fixed/replaced? I've had the pump for more than a year so I don't think the warranty is any good.

legallyflying said:

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/taco/taco-pump-ci-circulator-00r-msf-ifc.asp#link

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That pump is a good deal.
Your pump will run for hours ,days, weeks but I would order one of those.

That taco pump will be able to replace my shurflo in the same set up? Which is barrel->hose->pump->tee->heater. I can just hook the rubber hoses up to the inlet and outlet and plug it in?

And after rereading part of the thread I don't think you will lose CO2 to air leaks in your hoods, because you probably don't have much leaks in your hoods - you would notice that. I think the leaks between the room and outside the room is the problem. My old set up had a heavy quilt strung up over the door way as a barrier and had several holes and cracks in the walls. The leaks were not a big deal in terms of temperature loss or retention, nor did they pose a smell problem if the room was properly scrubbed 24/7, but my heater would run every 15 minutes and my water would be boiling hot. Once I moved in with my wife though, she was totally anal about having no trace of a grow, so I built a dedicated room for the grow, and I sealed every single inch of everything. The corners were all caulked and painted. Expanding foam spray was used anywhere that had any openings. I sealed the door with weatherstripping, and I use towels on both sides of the door as draft protectors. I think a side effect of obsessively sealing the room off was that I get no CO2 leakage. My pump went from running every 15 minutes to every 1-2 hours, and my water went from boiling hot to cold to the touch. Even though I keep my room between 80-82* the water loses heat through the concrete floor faster than the heater or the ambient air can warm it up.

Well my pump is dead now. It was sounding terrible, but still working after I hit it with the hammer. Now it appears to be totally dead.

Is this taco pump you linked to the same exact model your buddy has been using for 6+ years? I need to order my replacement asap but I would like to confirm that it really is the right model.

[FONT=arial,helvetica,verdana]Taco Circulator - Cast Iron Pump 0015-MSF-IFC


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Yes they are the same one but he is not using it for tankless heater. You need to do your part and contribute here. Call taco and tell them you need a pump that will generate 30-40 psi and a flow rate of around 6lpm and is not affected by heat.

Some of those taco pumps generate good psi, some don't they are very specific. Let me know what they tell you.
Thanks bro!

80 bucks for that taco...Snap it up...That pump here in Canada is almost 300 bucks.

I'm going on vacation next week so I don't know if I want to wait for shipping, then try to rig something together and troubleshoot it and hope I get it done in time - or not get it and just leave them for 2 weeks with no co2. I may just go to home depot today and get a submersible pump so I can have it all set up this weekend so that the plants don't have to wait 2 weeks until i'm back and can rig it up. Home depots web site shows pumps that have the required flowrate and can operate in temps up to 170*F for like $70.

I have very little faith that this taco pump is going to be the holy grail and magically solve my pump problems. The last 3 pumps I bought were all designed to operate under the exact conditions I had them operating under and they all still failed far earlier than they should. If anything goes wrong, and I highly anticipate it will, I think it will be easier to deal with a real store rather than an online store. In fact I never got a refund for the little giant pump I ordered before the shureflo. I called the place I ordered from and was told to mail in the upc code, cut the cord and trash the pump, and they would issue me a refund. Never got my refund and was never able to get a hold of them after that.

Home depots pump selection is totally different than what they have online. Got a utility pump that shoots water out like a god damn fire hose and the unit will not turn on. Grrrrr. This endeavor has caused unimaginable frustration.

Fuck that taco pump. I am going to order a pump that is designed to be used with a tankless water heater on an RV. If that can't run my damn set up then I don't know what can.

Dude, that's what the sure flow is designed for. Take a chill pill, pull your head out of your arse, and figure it out. A sump pump or whatever piece of shit from HD will not generate enough pressure. There are spinning vein pumps.

What you need to do is call taco, but whatever, you burned your sure flow out because you were pushing it too hard and didn't have enough pressure release.

I have used a utility pump before and got the unit working. I think the reason the utility pump I used burned out was because of the high reservoir temp, but it was probably a combination of that and the back pressure. I got about as much use out of it as I did another pump that was designed to operate under those conditions. I was hoping to have the unit running until I got a final solution in place (my water stays room temp so I didn't think temp would be an issue). Currently the only source of CO2 in my room is me breathing and smoking and until I get another pump in there.

I also don't understand how back pressure is an issue. These pumps are designed specifically to run under these conditions. What do people who actually use a pump/heater in an RV do? Just burn the pumps out constantly?

jrainman said:

Just really great injinuity took me awhile to read here I am at the end, I have one question why have not any of you guys running this system experimented with hydronic bolier pumps Like Taco or B&G , they are very resonable in price 50 t0 70 $ and all the moving parts are made of brass, they move 180 deg water on average and a residental size pump can push 3 storys easaly designed to on and off many times a day. may be I missng something ?, Oh and legallyflying ,most likly the reason you have problems with your gas valve solenoid , is that you do not have a drip leg on your gas line ,so you are moving a bit of moisture threw your gas valve, if you go back to post that is like 100 or so a guy showed a piping diagram to a gas water heater , he was talking about taking the plug off and tapping in , Big No that is a drip line by code it must be installed ,but that what you need to do ,gas mains have lots of water in them because there under pressure and as they travel the pressure is reduced and even reduced at your house so pressure and temp inside the pipe changes and crating water,any how get a T and a 6inch nipple and a cap install like the diagram , I dont no SH about growing but learning here ,but over 30 yrs HVAC exper.

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Glad to see you guys are not taking my advice on using a proper pump TACO OR B&G

Your Pump and water heater Premature failures are do to :

1] improper Sizing of supply and return lines

2) Improper pump GPM rating.

Its all about moving the water at the proper GPM , the faster you move the water = less heat transfer in both cooling and heating your water witch in the case of the water heater will have premature failure by passing the water to fast through the heater , and reverse effect on your cooling tanks =moving the water to fast will hinder the cooling of the water. Improper return line size will cause premature failure to the pump along with incorrect GPM.

you should properly size the piping ,pump to the rated flow of the heater (GPM) and add the capacity of your cooling tanks in to the equation

also the pump should be installed on the return side of the system.

But again what the hell do I know.

jrainman said:

Glad to see you guys are not taking my advice on using a proper pump TACO OR B&G

Your Pump and water heater Premature failures are do to :

1] improper Sizing of supply and return lines

2) Improper pump GPM rating.

Its all about moving the water at the proper GPM , the faster you move the water = less heat transfer in both cooling and heating your water witch in the case of the water heater will have premature failure by passing the water to fast through the heater , and reverse effect on your cooling tanks =moving the water to fast will hinder the cooling of the water. Improper return line size will cause premature failure to the pump along with incorrect GPM.

you should properly size the piping ,pump to the rated flow of the heater (GPM) and add the capacity of your cooling tanks in to the equation

also the pump should be installed on the return side of the system.

But again what the hell do I know.

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I think my pump(s) and heater are designed to be used with garden hose size tubing. I also think the most recent pump I had was specifically designed for use with an on demand water heater.

I don't see how moving water too fast through the unit will cause premature failure. I especially don't see how it will cause premature failure of the pump.

Are you sure the pump should be on the return side of the system? That seems so counter intuitive to me. I thought the principal of operation of the heater was that it required a minimum water pressure in order to ignite the burner. How do you generate any pressure at all from the return side?

guy incognito said:

Fuck that taco pump. I am going to order a pump that is designed to be used with a tankless water heater on an RV. If that can't run my damn set up then I don't know what can.

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You can't go wrong with a taco pump. They are top of the line and designed for continuous use and high temps. You should listen to those with more experience than you.

Or keep buying sub-par equipment and wonder why it keeps burning up.

guy incognito said:

I don't see how moving water too fast through the unit will cause premature failure. I especially don't see how it will cause premature failure of the pump.

Are you sure the pump should be on the return side of the system? That seems so counter intuitive to me. I thought the principal of operation of the heater was that it required a minimum water pressure in order to ignite the burner. How do you generate any pressure at all from the return side?

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If you reread the post by jrainman you'll see that he was referring to low flow causing premature failure not high flow. Low flow would cause overheating and thus....failure.

As far as him referring to the return side I believe he is thinking in hvac terminology where the cold water inlet is return. The hot water outlet would be considered supply. Yes you need the pump on the cold water inlet to provide pressure for the burner to ignite... obviously.

Been running a hydrogen for three years drain to waste. Still working great. (knock wood)

I hear what your saying rainman but your assumptions are wrong.

1. I DO have a drip leg on my NG line. The gas solenoid was just faulty.
2. I have 1/2 " lines (garden hose) coming in and out of the system
3. It's not about the efficiency of heating or cooling the water, it's really about GPM of the pump. Higher GPM then the system can pass creates back pressure which causes pump failure.

Drain to waste? I don't know how I would sleep at night knowing I was wasting that much water.

joe macclennan said:

If you reread the post by jrainman you'll see that he was referring to low flow causing premature failure not high flow. Low flow would cause overheating and thus....failure.

As far as him referring to the return side I believe he is thinking in hvac terminology where the cold water inlet is return. The hot water outlet would be considered supply. Yes you need the pump on the cold water inlet to provide pressure for the burner to ignite... obviously.

Been running a hydrogen for three years drain to waste. Still working great. (knock wood)

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I dont think so. He said:

jrainman said:

Its all about moving the water at the proper GPM , the faster you move the water = less heat transfer in both cooling and heating your water witch in the case of the water heater will have premature failure by passing the water to fast through the heater ,

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He says that faster water will cause less heat transfer and cause the heater to fail. That's not true. Faster flow will cause more heat transfer. Regardless I haven't even had any problems with my heater. My problem has been with pumps constantly failing.

EDIT: I realize now he meant the retention time wasn't long enough and that could cause over heating.

legallyflying said:

I hear what your saying rainman but your assumptions are wrong.

1. I DO have a drip leg on my NG line. The gas solenoid was just faulty.
2. I have 1/2 " lines (garden hose) coming in and out of the system
3. It's not about the efficiency of heating or cooling the water, it's really about GPM of the pump. Higher GPM then the system can pass creates back pressure which causes pump failure.

Drain to waste? I don't know how I would sleep at night knowing I was wasting that much water.

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Water water everywhere. It's not getting destroyed, it's simply being sent back to the processing facility. That same water has been through dinosaurs, the ocean, glaciers, hitler, and now your water heater.

Consider the alternative using city supplied water and draining to waste in my situation. It has been approximately 2 years that I have been running this set up. The time and frustration I have spent (above and beyond simply hooking up the hose to the inlet) getting this thing to function properly. I have burned out 3 pumps. I had to purchase all of those pumps, and now are using up small bits of non-renewable resources sitting in a landfill somewhere. I also had to use electricity to run the pump, and to ultimately remove some of that heat (by running a dehumidifier and AC).

Which option would have had the most financial impact to me? Buying 3 pumps, spending probably 10 evenings frustrated out of my mind wasting time, running pumps for 2 years, and creating additional load on my AC? Or the increase on my water bill by draining to waste?

Also which option has the biggest impact on the environment? "Wasting" water by draining it? Or buying 3 pumps and using electricity to run them and cool the heated water?

I don't know. I haven't calculated it out. I had the immediate reaction that draining to waste is bad and wasteful so I went about trying to recycle the water. Given the cost incurred over the last 2 years though i'm not convinced using a pump is better for me or the environment.

joe macclennan said:

You can't go wrong with a taco pump. They are top of the line and designed for continuous use and high temps. You should listen to those with more experience than you.

Or keep buying sub-par equipment and wonder why it keeps burning up.

Click to expand...

How is using something that is designed for continuous use and high temps (which are not the conditions my pump runs under btw) better than a different pump that is designed to run under my exact conditions?

And what is sub-par about a shureflo pump designed for use with a water heater (besides the obvious fact that mine died after 1 year)?