Well N A, The Tankless Water Heater is the Bomb!

Just really great injinuity took me awhile to read here I am at the end, I have one question why have not any of you guys running this system experimented with hydronic bolier pumps Like Taco or B&G , they are very resonable in price 50 t0 70 $ and all the moving parts are made of brass, they move 180 deg water on average and a residental size pump can push 3 storys easaly designed to on and off many times a day. may be I missng something ?, Oh and legallyflying ,most likly the reason you have problems with your gas valve solenoid , is that you do not have a drip leg on your gas line ,so you are moving a bit of moisture threw your gas valve, if you go back to post that is like 100 or so a guy showed a piping diagram to a gas water heater , he was talking about taking the plug off and tapping in , Big No that is a drip line by code it must be installed ,but that what you need to do ,gas mains have lots of water in them because there under pressure and as they travel the pressure is reduced and even reduced at your house so pressure and temp inside the pipe changes and crating water,any how get a T and a 6inch nipple and a cap install like the diagram , I dont no SH about growing but learning here ,but over 30 yrs HVAC exper.

That was me that posted the diagram with the drip leg by the hot water heater. I ended up tapping in some place else after learning the function of the drip leg.

I have been using the same hot water heater (Aquah 6L) for over a year with no issues yet.

I have been using the pump legallyflying recomended for about 7-8months with no issues.

I used a 55 gallon barrel that sits on the concrete ground in the grow room. The temperature never gets above ambient temperature because it does not run for very long. Seems to only come on every hour or so for a few minutes.

Thanks for the tips! I never knew about the drip leg. I'll look at the diagram and google it.

Are drip legs typically placed before an appliance or will a vertical pipe run take care of the moisture? It's kin of moot on the existing room as I am moving and expanding march 1st but I will be running a has line at the new place.
Thanks again. +rep for sure.

Sorry for the delay dripleg alway rite before the applliance , ,so first the gas shut off valve then T to make drip leg as the other side of the T goes to the appliance, the problem is recent (by code) a flexable gas line was only allowed for dryers and stoves witch are not really used as much compared to water heaters and furnaces, now that flex lines can be used in any and all appliances I see alot of things installed with out gas shut off valves and driplegs , if you ever took off the end cap off the drip leg you will always find a lot of rust from the moisture that they collect ,as the gas passes through the T the heavier moisture drops and collects. Like I said take a look back in your thread here,I think on the 100 posting area and look at that drawing of the hot water heater that is how you do it , Oh and gas Pressure is at 7 water colum so not much pressure, so you really dont need to tighten the fittings up to much ,I say this because you most likly are using the big box store fittings they are made in china and over tightining them will def crack them ( they are seemed fittings). the other thing only use black fitting and black pipe ,no galvo fitting or galvo pipe. and always try to bring your main feed in at 3/4 inch black and step down to your appliance gas valve size on the other side of the T,this way you always have enough volume of gas for you valve and helps ingnition to fire.

It's mostly for sediment, but also collects water drops. The theory is that gas, water droplets, and chunks of matter will fly through the gas line, and when they hit the tee only the lightest particles (the actual gas) will make the turn and enter the appliance. The rest of the stuff in the gas stream (water drops and solid chunks) will have too large of a momentum to change direction and they get caught in the "drip leg" or "sediment trap".

Not to disagree with the drip leg but I replaced 2 water heaters and a gas heater 2 years ago and found nothing in the drip legs.
I was hoping to find some water or little bits of dirt but...nothing.
Does the water evaporate over time?

I imagine it would evaporate and escape with the gas into the appliance at some point. I don't think a small amount of water vapor would cause a problem as long as it didn't condense. I think the intention is to remove liquid water from the stream, because that would not be good to have liquid water getting into your burner. The sediment stays though and you periodically have to empty them out. By periodically I mean almost never, especially if you have clean gas which it sounds like you do. You may also have dry gas.

The cost to add them during installation is negligible. It is much better to have one and not need it than to not have one and end up needing it.

I agree. For the cost of a T, 6" pipe and a cap it's well worth the investment. 5-6 dollars
There is ambient moisture in natural gas and propane though.
I have some vent free heaters that run on both fuels and they add moisture to the air.
The new 90%+ gas furnaces spit out a bit of water as well.
lol, I know you know that.

Nutes and Nugs said:

I agree. For the cost of a T, 6" pipe and a cap it's well worth the investment. 5-6 dollars
There is ambient moisture in natural gas and propane though.
I have some vent free heaters that run on both fuels and they add moisture to the air.
The new 90%+ gas furnaces spit out a bit of water as well.
lol, I know you know that.

Click to expand...

Water is a product of combustion. The hydrogen and carbon in the fuel combine with oxygen from the air and produce CO2, H2O and a release of energy (heat).

Well, Just for shits and giggles I will install one when I move my burner.

Kind of reminds me of a anti-water hammer device.. You guys know what those are? Pretty damn slick actually..

Nutes and Nugs dont take this the wrong way but , amount of moisture depend on a lot ot things where you are from ,time of year , how old are the gas lines are in your area ,size of main that runs down your street ,there is lots of factors ,Natural gas comes a long way to get to your dwelling, But also remember this is a National Boca Code ,and if for some reason your Gas company needs to look in your dwelling and see a installation with out a drip leg they will red tag it .(shut off) till corrections are made to meet code, the bottom line is that with out a drip the Gas valve is at a higher risk for a falure. I only know 5% about growing ,but Ive been in the mechanical contracting bus for over 30 yrs , just like growing it takes exp to really learn and I respect that.

oooh come on. A natural gas leak isn't THAT big a deal. LOL

jrainman said:

Nutes and Nugs dont take this the wrong way but , amount of moisture depend on a lot ot things where you are from ,time of year , how old are the gas lines are in your area ,size of main that runs down your street ,there is lots of factors ,Natural gas comes a long way to get to your dwelling, But also remember this is a National Boca Code ,and if for some reason your Gas company needs to look in your dwelling and see a installation with out a drip leg they will red tag it .(shut off) till corrections are made to meet code, the bottom line is that with out a drip the Gas valve is at a higher risk for a falure. I only know 5% about growing ,but Ive been in the mechanical contracting bus for over 30 yrs , just like growing it takes exp to really learn and I respect that.

Click to expand...

I wasn't disagreeing with anyone.
Just saying I didn't find any water or sediment when I replaced some gas appliances.
I assume the gas here is pretty clean.

legallyflying said:

oooh come on. A natural gas leak isn't THAT big a deal. LOL

Click to expand...

LOL, KaBOOOOM!

"Hey, do you smell something?"

"Yeah, let me turn on the light"

Dead. All dead

Ugh, my sureflow is dead! It only lasted 3 months. I have a ball valve installed after the pump and found I could run the heater with it most of the way open. Is there a better pump or did I just draw a dud?

Weird. It's probably the brushes. They WILL replace it free of charge. They don't even want the old one.

legallyflying said:

Weird. It's probably the brushes. They WILL replace it free of charge. They don't even want the old one.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Ill give them a call.

I went into the grow room and my pump is running, and it is super hot, but the heater is not running. I unplugged it and am waiting for it to cool down before I try to run it again. Will the pump continuously run if the heater does not turn on? Does it sound like the pump is fucked? Or does it sound like another issue? It is the sureflow pump. It's been in operation for about 8 months.

I let it cool for about 3 hours and plugged it back in. The pump was running but the heater was not turning on. I partially closed the ball valve on the drain-to-barrel line that tees from the pump-to-heater line, which increased pressure to the heater, which turned it on. So everything is working, although i'm afraid there might be an underlying problem with the pump or the heater. The pump sounds like it is working harder now that it is operation under more pressure. Anyone got any ideas? Maybe something is getting gunked up and restricted? Or the pump is getting worn?