anotherchance
New Member
well gee maybe he will have to reduce the troops, or aid to other countries or a shit load of other crap that are not supported by the constitution
wealth distribution
- Thread starter tipsgnob
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Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
I would love it for our federal government to confine it's activities to those strictly defined by the Constitution.
The party of big government under Dubya did not do it.
I do not see the party of huge government under Aiche doing it either.
talibanana
Active Member
Yeah, no kidding. Why do you think Bill Gates established a huge non-profit?
Don't get me wrong . . . I think non-profits are important and Mr. Gates is doing or at least trying to do a lot of good.
But all that is besides the point anyway. A tax that gives a slightly lower tax rate to the Middle Class is most decidedly NOT "redistribution of wealth" since income is NOT WEALTH as any friggin' person who has the slightest grasp of first year economics can tell you.
Not only that the whole argument ignores the basic fact that most people who DO have wealth get their money through capital gains, at a tax rate which is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than income tax . . . PLUS in general they are not burdened as much as the Middle Class because payroll taxes are REGRESSIVE (the less you make the more of a percentage you pay) and they top out at a hundred grand or so. I know I know, rich people don't NEED Social Security, but that's just as much an argument for a Middle Class tax cut as I've ever heard. . . .
All the Joe the Plumbers out there who have NO grasp of basic economics or fiscal policy as it relates to them are fixated on this phony populist clap-trap foisted on them by talk-show radio hosts who get paid to ply this nonsense. They have this illusion that SOME DAY they're gonna make it big, but the policies that they support diminish the chances of them actually being able to buy that business that will make them $250k. To call it Socialism is an embarrassment, yet they get away with it all day long!
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
Tali your statement regarding payroll taxes is illogical in the extreme, as for the most part, those that earn below a certain threshold pay no income taxes but instead get tax credits that erase their liability and give them outsized tax returns, but is income tax.
You were mentioning payroll taxes, which are not regressive, because they are an equal percentage for everyone that is employed. The only way to pay less is to be engaged in the black market, or to be getting paid under the table.
Payroll taxes are neither regressive nor progressive until you reach their limit which is about $100,000. At that point, due to the fact that payroll taxes are meant to pay for Social Security and Medicaid they are no longer charged, but a person that ends up paying up though the $100,000 is going to end up paying a lot more than some one that only pays through the $20,000, and then when it comes to retirement they are going to get a lot less bang for their contributions, so despite Obama's idiotic hyper to the contrary payroll taxes are still progressive in that they ultimately return more to those at the bottom than those at the top.
anotherchance
New Member
80% or more of western job create nothing, they are paper pushers and re underwriters or whatever. not too long ago over 80% of people were involved in agriculture. now all those create nothing jobs are about to vanish and we are about to have a system crash which is going to mean that millions of people are likely going to starve. what is your money going to get you when the supper markets are bare? peak agriculture baby, anywhere you see ruins, chances are that is what is left from the effects of peak agriculture.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Bill Gates pays a huge amount of taxes. Furthermore look at what Bill Gates created. He created a company which produces thousands of high paying jobs. The operating system and software created by his company made it possible for millions of people to make lots of money for themselves. Capitalism. Then this evil capitalist rich guy took it upon himself to create a non-profit foundation dedicated to the betterment of the world.
The Obama plan will discourage future Bill Gates' by making it more difficult to start and run a successful business. Plus the incentive for starting a business is to make money. What's the point if it will be seized because Obama wishes to make a mockery of free-enterprise in an effort to punish achievement and reward sloth going as far as calling a government handout 'success.'
But 32% of tax filers pay no income tax at all. A 'tax cut' given to people who do not pay taxes in the first place is income redistribution, which is as bad as wealth distribution. It means the government, not the individual, determines what income is acceptable.
A capital gains tax is double taxation because any gain has already been taxed through corporate income taxes.
Do not confuse payroll taxes with income taxes. Payroll taxes are essentially involuntary insurance premiums. Income taxes are meant to fund the government. Economic justice has nothing to do with it.
It is Socialism. The change Obama has been yelping about for so long.
ViRedd
New Member
Talibanana ...
Barak Hussein Obama has promised a "tax cut" for the bottom 95% of wage earners. The bottom 40% don't pay any taxes now. So, where can the "tax cut" come from, if not from a government check?
Obama has clearly said that he wants to "redistribute the wealth." He made that mistake by answering Joe the Plumber's question. So, if the government is going to redistribute wealth, it must be first be CONFISCATED before it can be redistributed, right? How does one square confiscation of property by the federal government without compensation, with the Constitution? Oh yeah, I forgot ... its that "Negative Rights" thingie. Bah!
Vi
Barak Hussein Obama has promised a "tax cut" for the bottom 95% of wage earners. The bottom 40% don't pay any taxes now. So, where can the "tax cut" come from, if not from a government check?
Obama has clearly said that he wants to "redistribute the wealth." He made that mistake by answering Joe the Plumber's question. So, if the government is going to redistribute wealth, it must be first be CONFISCATED before it can be redistributed, right? How does one square confiscation of property by the federal government without compensation, with the Constitution? Oh yeah, I forgot ... its that "Negative Rights" thingie. Bah!
Vi
smartsoverambition
Well-Known Member
i'm sorry u may of been trying to prove a point or whatever but that was a dick thing to do you may call that wealth redistribution but the guy is making minimum wage and i hope that he gave u good service cuz if u pulled that shit on me u'd be in that dumpster cut up bleeding to death where that homeless guy was.I had dinner out last night at a nice restaurant. The waiter had a small "Vote Obama" pin on his tie. When it came time for the tip, I told the waiter that I was going to redistribute his tip and give it to a less fortunate person than he; the homeless guy begging in the parking lot outside. I gave the homeless guy the amount of the tip, ten bucks. I went back into the restaurant and told the waiter that even though he did the work and gave the service, the homeless guy really appreciated his tip money. I expected the Obama fan to be really appreciative of my redistributing the wealth, but instead, he was really pissed off. I swear ... there's no way I understand these libbies. No matter what you do, there is just no satisfying them.
Vi
u thought about wealth redistribution that way what about seeing it this way:
see life as a race, the richer u r the better place you finished right? so the guy's parents who was not as rich finished behind the richer guy so when he handed off the life baton to his/her son or daughter his son may of been just as fast (strong, smart etc.) as the guy who is in first but he's not going to catch up to the guy already in first right? so the race standing's never change or are never really fair. so evening the playing field seems like the right thing to do right by giving back a equal field?
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
The problem with Socialism is that it automatically assumes that it is only the rich that get richer, when it has been shown that those that many that are in the bottom of the income bracket today will be at the top in the future. It is not a zero-sum game. If you are willing to work you get ahead. Simple, logical, easy to understand.
Unless you are blinded by an ideology or funky beliefs that dictate your impression that those at the bottom are stuck there. Never mind that history has plenty of examples of people moving from the bottom to the top.
What amazes me even more is the fact that you people ignore the fact that under Socialism societies become even more stratified. Such as that society is structured around non-party members, party-members and then the party-elite. One would think that you would realize that the only thing the government does is steal power from the citizens, and steal wealth from the citizens and give it to themselves.
The plans to tax the rich wont put money back at the bottom, at least not permanently. Yes, you can steal from the rich, but you can't do it indefinitely, because you slowly erode the number of rich, and you discourage people from getting ahead..
By destroying the risk of failure you also destroy the desire to get ahead, and thus you destroy civilization and society. You do not get a person to work by telling them they will be jailed if they do not work, you get a person to work by telling them that they will be rewarded for working.
Of course, I think the most delusional idea proclaimed by socialism is their desire to "change" people so that they "care" for others. This neglects the fact that when government is taxing you so much that you are struggling it is kind of hard to give a damn about your neighbors, or to try helping them out. It ignores the fact that such a massive brainwashing would homogenize society and erase any differences. There would be no subcultures, everyone would be the same mind-washed brainless boob.
smartsoverambition
Well-Known Member
no need to insult i was just offering a different way to think about it i know socialism and communism don't work but 2 prove a point he/she kinda screwed a guy out of something he worked for, but the problem with laissez faire is that a regular person who works hard will NOT catch up to the guy who had the Stagger head start so to try to even the playing field people start playing dirty to "trip up" these people. robbery, fraud, murder, occurs to try to catch up or slow down.
but democracy is a beautiful thing.
there's nothing more inspiring than a guy with a disadvantage running for he's life and catching up and becoming a frontrunner, i'm one of those people who culd make millions or end up in jail, but i don't wnat to be owned by possesions, just have a mild love affair with them.
sorry that u think i'm a nazi
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
Don't think you're a NAZI, not even sure what to think about you, I stopped trying to categorize people by their posts a while ago. People routinely state something other than their specific beliefs in public.
Obama on the other hand, I think is a NAZI.
Obsessed with making big corporations pay.
Obsessed with perceived inequalities between one half of his heritage vs. the other.
Obsessed with rhetoric instead of actions.
And not the kind of person that makes a good leader, but only a good follower, because of the fact that he takes other people's ideas instead of coming up with his own. Maybe it's just his speech writers that are dolts though...
scottiedoo
Well-Known Member
I had dinner out last night at a nice restaurant. The waiter had a small "Vote Obama" pin on his tie. When it came time for the tip, I told the waiter that I was going to redistribute his tip and give it to a less fortunate person than he; the homeless guy begging in the parking lot outside. I gave the homeless guy the amount of the tip, ten bucks. I went back into the restaurant and told the waiter that even though he did the work and gave the service, the homeless guy really appreciated his tip money. I expected the Obama fan to be really appreciative of my redistributing the wealth, but instead, he was really pissed off. I swear ... there's no way I understand these libbies. No matter what you do, there is just no satisfying them.
Vi
dude... you are an asshole... to the max bro..
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
An Example of Obama's Wealth "Redistribution"
Bloomberg.com: Exclusive
Bloomberg.com: Exclusive
Stoney McFried
Well-Known Member
Uhhhhh wouldn't it be better if you redistributed some of the money you'd spend on a dinner that has a ten dollar tip?Why not eat at a cheaper restaurant and give the homeless guy 50 bucks?Now THAT's redistribution!
I had dinner out last night at a nice restaurant. The waiter had a small "Vote Obama" pin on his tie. When it came time for the tip, I told the waiter that I was going to redistribute his tip and give it to a less fortunate person than he; the homeless guy begging in the parking lot outside. I gave the homeless guy the amount of the tip, ten bucks. I went back into the restaurant and told the waiter that even though he did the work and gave the service, the homeless guy really appreciated his tip money. I expected the Obama fan to be really appreciative of my redistributing the wealth, but instead, he was really pissed off. I swear ... there's no way I understand these libbies. No matter what you do, there is just no satisfying them.
Vi
smartsoverambition
Well-Known Member
no prob u probably wouldn't guess by my posts but i used to be a GD (gangster disciple now growth and development) i actually did better myself and u can never underestimate the power of rhetoric
what i hate about these people who want to make these big corporations pay is that the people who work them are the people who make up America who did what they had to do to get where they are however the government needs to pay closer attention to the people in charge because in the end, 4 a corporation to become a nationwide, the company in HAS to become as a whole a psychopath, which means that upper mangement who control the country companies moves and transactions have to become psychopath's,
which iis why we have to watch out for them
anotherchance
New Member
dont wanna spoil that homeless guy now
scottiedoo
Well-Known Member
I've thought this about my father's generation... (and generations before) we really do live in a society where you basically CANNOT make an "honest" living... & collectively, as a nation, we're so numb to this... just taking the beatings daily with Prozac-fueled smiles on our faces...
smartsoverambition
Well-Known Member
i know right? sometimes i feel that if i was to share the knoledge of what i know to the people who need it, if it catches on i will be killed become another martyr like malcolm x and MLK, america has lost it's mind and gone numb
anotherchance
New Member
lost it a long ass time ago dude
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
Not the duty of the government, except in cases where the corporation is found to be breaking laws, of course half the laws are absurd.
There is no need to protect against abusive monopolies, because any such monopoly, will either continue to benefit consumers or it will jack up prices so much that it will find itself beset on all sides against competitors with lower prices, and a more positive consumer friendly attitude.
The nice thing about Capitalism is that it is a dog eat dog system, and the top dog is usually the one that draws the most ire.