War

cannabineer said:

Might it be argued that a truly neutral nation should not be exporting arms in the first place?

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And that is the point. If Germany exported the ammo before the war it would be ok, but with Russia being the attacker then it is ok. Heck, why did we send equipment to Ukraine after the Russians invaded, it just prolonged the war. We should have just let Russia take it. Switzerland is lucky it is surrounded by Nato countries. In that case there is no need for them to have an arms industry.

Russia is running out of artillery | Major General Chip Chapman

156,109 views Dec 7, 2022
"Russia will inevitably collapse under its own weight."

In the mean time, the US aims to produce enough artillery to support Ukraine for the next three to four years, explains Major General Chip Chapman, former senior British Military Advisor.

printer said:

And that is the point. If Germany exported the ammo before the war it would be ok, but with Russia being the attacker then it is ok. Heck, why did we send equipment to Ukraine after the Russians invaded, it just prolonged the war. We should have just let Russia take it. Switzerland is lucky it is surrounded by Nato countries. In that case there is no need for them to have an arms industry.

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I take an intermediate position. They have always taken a keen interest in defense, which is understandable in light of how often the lands on their borders have changed title, sometimes by treaty but usually at halberd-point. So a homegrown war industry is expected and prudent. Pretty much the only thing they import are the fast jets, and the faster sharp bits they hang from them.

The export aspect has been a perennial cash cow. Before there were personal Boeings, nothing spoke status like (expensively) retaining a Swiss guard.
It’s this faint odor of having one’s cake while eating it on which I remark.

That said, they’re in their rights to conditionalize how that ammo is used. I thing Germany is the guiltier party; with folks who are still alive to tell tales of Russia and logistics, they know better.

cannabineer said:

I take an intermediate position. They have always taken a keen interest in defense, which is understandable in light of how often the lands on their borders have changed title, sometimes by treaty but usually at halberd-point. So a homegrown war industry is expected and prudent. Pretty much the only thing they import are the fast jets, and the faster sharp bits they hang from them.

The export aspect has been a perennial cash cow. Before there were personal Boeings, nothing spoke status like (expensively) retaining a Swiss guard.
It’s this faint odor of having one’s cake while eating it on which I remark.

That said, they’re in their rights to conditionalize how that ammo is used. I thing Germany is the guiltier party; with folks who are still alive to tell tales of Russia and logistics, they know better.

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Too afraid Russians will take their money out of the banks.

Intercepted phone call reveals dwindling conditions for Russian forces

23,860 views Dec 7, 2022
An intercepted phone call between a Russian soldier and his mother reveals conditions on the front lines of Russian President Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine. #CNN #News

DIY-HP-LED said:

Ukraine and Poland might have been building these drones for a while now and buying shipping container loads of parts and materials. If they have been doing this, they could assemble a lot of drones in a short time based on a proven and tested design. Why not, they are not under sanctions and all that would be required is money and by the standards of modern war not much. Something that could carry around 100lbs of HE and go 1000km. The shorter the journey to the target, the more explosive payload that can be added in lieu of fuel. There are plenty of military targets in nearby Russia for the Ukrainians to strike. It could provoke Vlad to use up all his remaining missiles over a short period of time and then they can proceed to repair the grid more fully as the AA defense increases and fewer can get through. It will also force Russian troops back into Russia to defend shit and leave them less AA defense in Ukraine, while sitting around in Russia waiting for random drone strikes.

Ukraine attacked a Russian airbase 500 km from the border

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Who'd have thought we'd be here today where Ukraine is autonomously constructing long range drones and hitting targets deep inside Russia,I 've gone back and watched many video's on some highly respected veterans you tube channels and their predictions at the onset of hostilities and pretty much the common consensus was that Russia would have Kiev in a weeks time at most,what a incredible against all odds outcome.

CCGNZ said:

Who'd have thought we'd be here today where Ukraine is autonomously constructing long range drones and hitting targets deep inside Russia,I 've gone back and watched many video's on some highly respected veterans you tube channels and their predictions at the onset of hostilities and pretty much the common consensus was that Russia would have Kiev in a weeks time at most,what a incredible against all odds outcome.

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The big factor was the corruption and incompetence of the Russian military and political leadership. They hid it from Vlad, and so hid it from western intelligence agencies with connections at the top, they were reading the same lies as Vlad. They didn't even know they were this bad and it came as a bigger shock to Vlad than many in the west! Just depending on the top layers of their government was a mistake, since they were lied to by those below them and on it went down to the junior officers and troops selling off equipment online. Not just their army was so corrupt as to render it near useless, the air force and navy were worse, since they depend on technology more than the army. There was no Russian air force to speak of and pilots were untrained, and equipment poorly maintained. The Navy was being sunk by a country with no navy of its own to speak of and are largely driven from the western Black Sea.

Russia is surrounded many enemies and has no friends, just deals with North Korea, China and Iran, birds of a feather stick together.

CCGNZ said:

Who'd have thought we'd be here today where Ukraine is autonomously constructing long range drones and hitting targets deep inside Russia,I 've gone back and watched many video's on some highly respected veterans you tube channels and their predictions at the onset of hostilities and pretty much the common consensus was that Russia would have Kiev in a weeks time at most,what a incredible against all odds outcome.

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Once I saw that long stalled logistics convoy near Kyyiv, I began to wonder if Russia bit off more than they could chew. In retrospect, they counted on a quick decisive blitz.

cannabineer said:

Once I saw that long stalled logistics convoy near Kyyiv, I began to wonder if Russia bit off more than they could chew. In retrospect, they counted on a quick decisive blitz.

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Agreed, a stalled convoy,parked bumper to bumper w/today's weaponry is not just stupid,it's suicidal

DIY-HP-LED said:

The big factor was the corruption and incompetence of the Russian military and political leadership. They hid it from Vlad, and so hid it from western intelligence agencies with connections at the top, they were reading the same lies as Vlad. They didn't even know they were this bad and it came as a bigger shock to Vlad than many in the west! Just depending on the top layers of their government was a mistake, since they were lied to by those below them and on it went down to the junior officers and troops selling off equipment online. Not just their army was so corrupt as to render it near useless, the air force and navy were worse, since they depend on technology more than the army. There was no Russian air force to speak of and pilots were untrained, and equipment poorly maintained. The Navy was being sunk by a country with no navy of its own to speak of and are largely driven from the western Black Sea.

Russia is surrounded many enemies and has no friends, just deals with North Korea, China and Iran, birds of a feather stick together.

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When no one can speak truth to power that's what happens,I fear the same in the US in a way.When I see the wasted billions in military procurement,failed programs(the Navy built 2 classes of useless combat littoral ships and has no effective surface combatant smaller than a destroyer), meanwhile China is stamping out new vessels faster than shit through a goose is ominous.What Mr. Xi has learned from Putin's charrade is that China will have to go all in concerning Taiwan meaning mobilization of the country and not a "special operation", which certainly isn't stealthy intel. wise. But Xi is feeling so powerful I don't think he will care about openly showing his intent. Five yrs. from now even if the US has the will to defend Tawain, I have seious reservations that we will have the means to do so.

CCGNZ said:

When no one can speak truth to power that's what happens,I fear the same in the US in a way.When I see the wasted billions in military procurement,failed programs(the Navy built 2 classes of useless combat littoral ships and has no effective surface combatant smaller than a destroyer), meanwhile China is stamping out new vessels faster than shit through a goose is ominous.What Mr. Xi has learned from Putin's charrade is that China will have to go all in concerning Taiwan meaning mobilization of the country and not a "special operation", which certainly isn't stealthy intel. wise. But Xi is feeling so powerful I don't think he will care about openly showing his intent. Five yrs. from now even if the US has the will to defend Tawain, I have seious reservations that we will have the means to do so.

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Going for Tawain means war with the allies, not just Uncle Sam, but the west in general, shit the globe! We get almost all our advanced semiconductors from Tawain and China gets theirs from them too. Any attack would see these facilities destroyed and their highly trained and skilled workers dead or turned into refugees and scattered. It would mean instant war with the US, UK, EU, Aus, NZ, Japan, South Korea and all the Asian tigers in the region including Vietnam! Uncle Sam would have more enthusiastic company on this one than in Ukraine. China would be up against most of its trading partners and their economy would collapse FFS.

CCGNZ said:

When no one can speak truth to power that's what happens,I fear the same in the US in a way.When I see the wasted billions in military procurement,failed programs(the Navy built 2 classes of useless combat littoral ships and has no effective surface combatant smaller than a destroyer), meanwhile China is stamping out new vessels faster than shit through a goose is ominous.What Mr. Xi has learned from Putin's charrade is that China will have to go all in concerning Taiwan meaning mobilization of the country and not a "special operation", which certainly isn't stealthy intel. wise. But Xi is feeling so powerful I don't think he will care about openly showing his intent. Five yrs. from now even if the US has the will to defend Tawain, I have seious reservations that we will have the means to do so.

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the Zumwalt-class frigates were a bad spend imo.

Sativied said:

Germany asking Switzerland to change its main principle, ‘permanent’ neutrality, is the retarded part. Why another country currently in war cannot defend themselves with the same ammo is contractual, Swiss law, and internationally agreed neutrality as defined in the 1907 Hague convention. Equal treatment, not supporting either side (currently) in an armed conflict. Allowing Germans to export the ammo to a nation in war is for Switzerland effectively the same as ending Swiss’ permanent neutrality. They could do that in theory but only a tiny percentage of the population wants, it would be political suicide for something that would still only apply to future sales.

Germany knew before they asked Switzerland again to give up who they are, it would be rejected. Yet still asked officially and publicly to put pressure on and shame Switzerland for basically just being Switzerland. Germany is now threatening to stop buying arms and ammo from Switzerland entirely, while it was always a given logical obvious condition they couldn’t re-export it to active conflicts.

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that's fine, i'm sure the rest of Europe will be very eager to defend the Swiss if they ever get invaded...
outside intervention could upset their neutral teacart, wouldn't want to break Swiss law.
maybe the russians or the chechens or w/e is invading didn't get the memo about their neutrality.
i have a hard time taking a country that claims neutrality seriously, while we're debating where the ammunition they manufacture should be used.

cannabineer said:

Once I saw that long stalled logistics convoy near Kyyiv, I began to wonder if Russia bit off more than they could chew. In retrospect, they counted on a quick decisive blitz.

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they pretty much stated earlier that their "intelligence" operatives lied to them, told them they had partisan groups ready to help them, when they had no one to help them, they were just pocketing the money they were given and then disappeared when the "elite" paratroopers dropped in, expecting to be led to Zelensky so they could arrest him...that column of troops expected to roll into Kyiv unopposed.

looks like Russian bomber went into stealth mode......wonder why.....snicker snicker

I'd say he got too close to one of those missiles or drones when it exploded, a common occurrence when taking them down with guns, it's hard not to get some shit on ya! In this case it looks like he took some debris through the cockpit. In WW2 many planes landed burned to a crisp after flying through the explosion fireball of a V1 flying bomb and some never made it. Knowing it will probably kill civilians on the ground gives them extra incentive to take risks.

CCGNZ said:

Who'd have thought we'd be here today where Ukraine is autonomously constructing long range drones and hitting targets deep inside Russia,I 've gone back and watched many video's on some highly respected veterans you tube channels and their predictions at the onset of hostilities and pretty much the common consensus was that Russia would have Kiev in a weeks time at most,what a incredible against all odds outcome.

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The odds were never as bad as many thought. As for those youtube channels. You can be respected and not know what you're talking about.

Once the United States decided to go all in supporting Ukraine it was pretty obvious that Russia was going to have a tougher time than many thought. Combine the advanced weapon systems provided by the US along with the overall military planning and the Ukrainians were in a much better position than it appeared at first glance. There is no doubt that the overall strategy and tactics used all come from the United States. We just don't have active duty military on the ground in Ukraine giving orders. But they're coming from the United States Military. The most lethal military force to ever exist. Our goal is the collapse of Russia. Ukraine is a beneficiary of our long term strategic goals.

This is what some of the drone hobbyists in Ukraine used to do before the war, before they turned their hand and drones to war to defend their country and plow shears were transformed into swords. For some it started in 2014 and evolved from a volunteer organization to a vital part of the military at all levels, from the squad to the generals in all their various forms. After the war they will document the damage in unprecedented detail and will add to the burden or Russia's war reparations by documenting war crimes.

CCGNZ said:

When no one can speak truth to power that's what happens,I fear the same in the US in a way.When I see the wasted billions in military procurement,failed programs(the Navy built 2 classes of useless combat littoral ships and has no effective surface combatant smaller than a destroyer), meanwhile China is stamping out new vessels faster than shit through a goose is ominous.What Mr. Xi has learned from Putin's charrade is that China will have to go all in concerning Taiwan meaning mobilization of the country and not a "special operation", which certainly isn't stealthy intel. wise. But Xi is feeling so powerful I don't think he will care about openly showing his intent. Five yrs. from now even if the US has the will to defend Tawain, I have seious reservations that we will have the means to do so.

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People are overestimating China just like they did with Russia. It doesn't matter how many ships they crank out if they're junk. China is rife with corruption just like Russia. For all we know some contractor used cardboard instead of metal in part of the construction and pocketed the money. Their weapons systems are not proven and the training and capability of their military forces is poor.

China is overrated. They will never surpass the United States. The United States military is and will continue to be the most lethal force on the planet.


CJCS General Milley knows what he's talking about:

Right now, the United States military is -- without question, despite whatever criticisms people have, the United States military is the most lethal warfighting machine on Earth, bar none. The United States military is number one and we intend to stay number one.

And our task -- militaries only have two tasks. We have a single purpose, really, which is to -- either to prepare for war or to fight a war, and we are laser-focused on that. And we intend to stay number one.

China is not going to be a better military than the United States military is but they're going to try but they're not going to get there. We will be number one five years from now, 10 years from now, and 50 years from now. We are not going to let China take number one.


The United States of America will always be number one.


Then there is the fact that the Taiwanese people are ready to defend their island and way of life while the Chinese soldier is not going to be as motivated to invade the island and fight just like what's happening in Ukraine.