War

Russian rouble plummets 3%, bonds hammered as Ukraine declares state of emergency
And BOOM. Vlad is having to explain this to his minions.

Putin announces military operation in Ukraine
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Russia will launch a military operation in Ukraine, according to multiple reports.

In a televised address Thursday morning Moscow time, Putin continued his disinformation campaign, claiming the operation was aimed at protecting eastern Ukraine from what he called a “regime.”

Russia has amassed some 190,000 troops along Ukraine’s border with numerous neighbors and U.S. officials warned throughout the day an attack was imminent and Russian troops were "ready to go."

Multiple outlets have reported explosions in Kyiv, the county’s capital, as well as in Kharkiv, a city in the northeast.

“The #Russian invasion of #Ukraine is now underway,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) tweeted Wednesday night in the U.S.

US ambassador to UN describes imminent 'full-scale' Russian invasion
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (U.N.) Linda Thomas-Greenfield said at an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting Wednesday that an attack on Ukraine was imminent.

An emergency meeting was called on Wednesday night by Ukraine, with Thomas-Greenfield highlighting aggressive moves from Russia in the past few days.

“We are here tonight because we believe, along with Ukraine, that a full-scale further invasion into Ukraine by Russia is imminent,” Thomas-Greenfield said.

She said she spoke with President Biden before the meeting, adding that he wanted to “share that the United States and our allies and partners will continue to respond to Russia’s actions with unity and clarity and with conviction.”

After weeks of negotiations, Thomas-Greenfield said only Russia is to blame for this crisis and that putting it on any other country is “giving them a pass.”

“Russia’s attack on Ukraine is tantamount to an attack on the U.N. and every member state in the chamber tonight,” she added.

The meeting comes the night U.S. officials are warning Russia could attack Ukraine, despite weeks of negotiations attempting to avoid war.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on “NBC Nightly News” it was possible Russia would launch an invasion into Ukraine before the night is over.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky addressed the country on Wednesday while pleading for Russia to reverse course.

“The Ukrainian people want peace,” Zelensky said. “The government in Ukraine wants peace and is doing everything it can to build it.”

“Neighbors always enrich each other culturally,” Zelensky added. “However, that doesn’t make them a single whole. It doesn’t dissolve us into you. We are different, but that is not a reason to be enemies. We want to determine, build our future ourselves, peacefully, calmly and honestly.”

Zelensky has warned that Ukraine will defend itself from any Russian aggression and will not concede territory.

Biden condemns 'unprovoked and unjustified' Russian military operation in Ukraine
President Biden on Wednesday expressed solidarity with Ukraine as Russia launched what Biden described as an "unprovoked and unjustified attack," with shelling reported in multiple Ukrainian cities.

"The prayers of the entire world are with the people of Ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces," Biden said in a statement released by the White House.

"President Putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering. Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring, and the United States and its Allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way. The world will hold Russia accountable," Biden added

Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Wednesday night that he was launching a military operation in eastern Ukraine in what many interpreted as a declaration of war on Ukraine. Reporters and witnesses on the ground reported a short time later the sounds of shelling in multiple cities.

Biden is set to meet with Group of Seven allies on Thursday morning and will deliver remarks on next steps targeting Russia.

More weapons, more aid, more troops and more sanctions on Russia, make Vlad pay the price in blood and treasure. If Ukraine wants to fight and are competently lead, supported and armed by NATO and the EU, it could be very costly for Vlad in terms of blood. I think America and everybody else wants to sanction Russia out of existence, they've been fucking with everybody these past few years. I think they should just take Vlad's money in the west, what's he gonna do, sue them? He won't say a peep about his ill gotten gains mysteriously disappearing from tax havens, while corrupt officials there quietly get a cut for cooperation.
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These guys might be shitting BRICKS before this is over!
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While his government faces punitive sanctions from many Western countries, Russian President Vladimir Putin knows he can rely on valuable business and political support from the BRICS – the 12-year-old bloc of emerging economies that comprises Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

For the Putin government, trade and investment from BRICS will help to cushion the blow of Western travel bans, asset freezes, banking terminations and a cancelled pipeline. The five-country bloc could provide the economic and financial links that will keep Russia afloat in the face of sanctions.

At an emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council on Monday night, BRICS countries were unwilling to join the Western denunciations of Russia. Diplomats from China, India and Brazil all spoke during the emergency debate, but none criticized Russia’s actions.

mooray said:

Only part I don't quite like was the part about supporting the Ukraine economy. I know there's tons of overlap, but the word "economy" should be left out of something that's clearly a moral argument.

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Society's moral codes are a distillation of many learning experiences and people who follow them avoid mistakes others made in the past. Moral codes enable others to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past. As a person who makes a living carrying out experiments that often test conventional wisdom, careful study and understanding of the basis of that belief saves the cost of carrying out an empirical study on the subject to test it. Society benefits when people follow moral codes that are based upon good reason and the experience of others. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not bear false witness, for example. It's completely reasonable to question those codes. If one stops and thinks on the subject, it's not hard to figure out why they exist.

You are rejecting the statement by a government body made up of people who probably know more than you do on the subject. You did so due to your own belief that economic decisions should not be based upon morality. Isn't that simply following your personal moral code?

I'm not saying your are wrong or right, I'm saying your logic is muddled. Rejecting that paragraph because "economy" does not belong in a "moral argument" fails to convince because you brought no facts. Just your own bias against moral arguments.

This says all we need to know about Putin and his "worst agent ever", Donald Trump. This pair would kiss The Devil's arse to gain more power. Trump cares nothing for America and Putin cares nothing for Russia. It's just power at whatever price it takes. The pair should get married if only it wasn't a hanging offence in Russia and half of America.

Soon Enough my paycheck will shaft me from rising gas prices . We're avg 4.50 a gallon in nor cal.

Fogdog said:

Society's moral codes are a distillation of many learning experiences and people who follow them avoid mistakes others made in the past. Moral codes enable others to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past. As a person who makes a living carrying out experiments that often test conventional wisdom, careful study and understanding of the basis of that belief saves the cost of carrying out an empirical study on the subject to test it. Society benefits when people follow moral codes that are based upon good reason and the experience of others. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not bear false witness, for example. It's completely reasonable to question those codes. If one stops and thinks on the subject, it's not hard to figure out why they exist.

You are rejecting the statement by a government body made up of people who probably know more than you do on the subject. You did so due to your own belief that economic decisions should not be based upon morality. Isn't that simply following your personal moral code?

I'm not saying your are wrong or right, I'm saying your logic is muddled. Rejecting that paragraph because "economy" does not belong in a "moral argument" fails to convince because you brought no facts. Just your own bias against moral arguments.

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Joining with the west imposes discipline and there are a multitude of institutions that battle corruption tied to the financial system and other organizations. Their goal is to join with the EU one day and they have to meet minimum requirements to do that. Also there is the discipline of a liberal democracy and a free press, these too fight corruption.

CaliRootz88 said:

Soon Enough my paycheck will shaft me from rising gas prices . We're avg 4.50 a gallon in nor cal.

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Prices are global, there's gonna be war and a Russian oil embargo to the extent we can enforce or cajole, or deal for it. It will make EVs and the green new grid happen quicker in America and especially in Europe.

DIY-HP-LED said:

More weapons, more aid, more troops and more sanctions on Russia, make Vlad pay the price in blood and treasure. If Ukraine wants to fight and are competently lead, supported and armed by NATO and the EU, it could be very costly for Vlad in terms of blood. I think America and everybody else wants to sanction Russia out of existence, they've been fucking with everybody these past few years. I think they should just take Vlad's money in the west, what's he gonna do, sue them? He won't say a peep about his ill gotten gains mysteriously disappearing from tax havens, while corrupt officials there quietly get a cut for cooperation.
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Russia-Ukraine updates: Canada to send more troops to Europe, impose new sanctions

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered troops into two separatist regions in eastern Ukraine after recognizing their independence. In a live address today, Biden called Russia’s actions “a flagrant violation of international law” and announced a wave of sanctions

www.theglobeandmail.com

These guys might be shitting BRICKS before this is over!
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While his government faces punitive sanctions from many Western countries, Russian President Vladimir Putin knows he can rely on valuable business and political support from the BRICS – the 12-year-old bloc of emerging economies that comprises Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

For the Putin government, trade and investment from BRICS will help to cushion the blow of Western travel bans, asset freezes, banking terminations and a cancelled pipeline. The five-country bloc could provide the economic and financial links that will keep Russia afloat in the face of sanctions.

At an emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council on Monday night, BRICS countries were unwilling to join the Western denunciations of Russia. Diplomats from China, India and Brazil all spoke during the emergency debate, but none criticized Russia’s actions.

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More weapons sent to a kleptocracy. uck If we do send more weapons, what guarantees, and I mean more than words, what guarantees does the US have that those weapons will be kept safe from corrupt hands, forever?

The US keeps doing this. Afghanistan is a recent example. We sent billions and billions of dollars in arms and when crunch time came, the Afghani government was defeated by the very weapons we sent. When they didn't go to the Taliban, those arms went to other hot spots and made the situations worse there. This is more of a rhetorical question right now. I'm going to try to answer my own question.

Interesting how India shows up on that list. India has been creeping ever more deeply into a fascist state run by an authoritarian leader, Modi.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Joining with the west imposes discipline and there are a multitude of institutions that battle corruption tied to the financial system and other organizations. Their goal is to join with the EU one day and they have to meet minimum requirements to do that. Also there is the discipline of a liberal democracy and a free press, these too fight corruption.

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I agree with you on what you said but that wasn't the objection I voiced toward mooray. I am saying his argument was muddled because it rejected a moral argument with a moral argument.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Prices are global, there's gonna be war and a Russian oil embargo to the extent we can enforce or cajole, or deal for it. It will make EVs and the green new grid happen quicker in America and especially in Europe.

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Nice Point!

This is extremely fucked up.

I don't believe what I'm' witnessing anymore, it has to be a fucking nightmare.

What the fuck is left that can go wrong with the World now?

Oh, that's right!

I'm for democracy.

92.3% of voters approved the declaration of independence


1991 Ukrainian independence referendum


A referendum on the Act of Declaration of Independence was held in Ukraine on 1 December 1991.[1] An overwhelming majority of 92.3% of voters approved the declaration of independence made by the Verkhovna Rada on 24 August 1991.



.

CaliRootz88 said:

Nice Point!

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Completely agree that the US needs to shift resources away from subsidizing the fossil fuel industry to speed up the growth in EV. It's good but some issues of scale remain. This crisis yet again highlights the lunacy of hitching our economy to the whims of brutal authoritarian regimes like Saudi Arabia and Russia. Maybe this time we will take the costly and necessary steps.

Does not solve your immediate concern over the rising cost of gasoline. The ability to get to and from work was always number one in priority in the blue collar household I grew up in. When gas was too expensive we cut spending where we could. When too many families do that, recession is an outcome.

I think Biden and his team are aware of that. He can't fuck up our economy. If he does, the Russian ass kissers will occupy congress, maybe in the last election we hold as a free country. God damn. I never wanted to live in interesting times.

Fogdog said:

More weapons sent to a kleptocracy. uck If we do send more weapons, what guarantees, and I mean more than words, what guarantees does the US have that those weapons will be kept safe from corrupt hands, forever?

The US keeps doing this. Afghanistan is a recent example. We sent billions and billions of dollars in arms and when crunch time came, the Afghani government was defeated by the very weapons we sent. When they didn't go to the Taliban, those arms went to other hot spots and made the situations worse there. This is more of a rhetorical question right now. I'm going to try to answer my own question.

Interesting how India shows up on that list. India has been creeping ever more deeply into a fascist state run by an authoritarian leader, Modi.

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It's all on condition that the Ukrainians fight and I think they will, this is no Afghanistan the dynamics and history are completely different. One note though, the president is a former comedian and a good one too apparently, they usually have a low tolerance for bullshit and are generally good folks, normal at least.

I think Brazil, SA and India are the weak links in the BRICS and we can cut a deal with China for more access Iranian oil. We will see, but I have a feeling sanctions and cutting off Russia are much of what this is about. Embargo their oil and cut them off from technology and the internet to the extent we can. If we also build out a robust green new grid along with EV over the next decade, Russia will be screwed as demand dries up and supply increases.

DIY-HP-LED said:

It's all on condition that the Ukrainians fight and I think they will, this is no Afghanistan the dynamics and history are completely different. One note though, the president is a former comedian and a good one too apparently, they usually have a low tolerance for bullshit and are generally good folks, normal at least.

I think Brazil, SA and India are the weak links in the BRICS and we can cut a deal with China for more access Iranian oil. We will see, but I have a feeling sanctions and cutting off Russia are much of what this is about. Embargo their oil and cut them off from technology and the internet to the extent we can. If we also build out a robust green new grid along with EV over the next decade, Russia will be screwed as demand dries up and supply increases.

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They have no chance in a conventional war against Russia.

Fogdog said:

They have no chance in a conventional war against Russia.

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I realize that, but mass casualties are not a good thing and some of the military experts I've seen said it could be dire. Ukraine has a lot of anti tank weapons and I believe a lot of stinger and stinger 2 AA missiles have been delivered. America is supplying intelligence and the ground forces are closely matched in number, though Ukraine is weak in the air. The idea is to make it hurt real bad.