War

printer said:

And if Russia agrees to returning to the February per-invasion divide?

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They are still on Ukrainian territory and have violated several previous agreements on Ukrainian sovereignty. including one where they gave Russia 1500 nukes. These territories were used as spring boards to attack Ukraine and any peace offering would be used to regroup and get the Russian army out of defeat on the field. Zellenskiy might agree to a cease fire, if they moved out, but that is far different than a peace deal and that is what we want, but with all of Ukraine. If Vlad's days are numbered in terms of health or life, then retirement is possible while having a fall guy make the humiliating peace deal, then he is disposed of and it's back to business, or to try and pick up the pieces.

One thing though, the more of the Russian army the Ukrainians destroy and the more weakened the Russians become, the less willing they and their close allies will be willing to compromise. Don't kid yourself, Belarus is in somebody's sights in the near future. Perhaps in the ensuing confusion in wake of Vlad's death there could be some movement, but if the Russian army collapses on the field in Ukraine this summer, it will be game over.

A peace offer by Vlad might be accepted temporarily, but only because America agreed to arm Ukraine to the fucking teeth, while the cease fire was on going. They would need to get stronger quicker than the Russians could, but they would hold a referendum in Ukraine that would reject it. There is an election next year in Ukraine and no party will advocate for giving pieces to Russia! I believe going the whole 9 yards is favored by well over 80% of Ukrainians, if memory serves me correctly.

DIY-HP-LED said:

They are still on Ukrainian territory and have violated several previous agreements on Ukrainian sovereignty. including one where they gave Russia 1500 nukes. These territories were used as spring boards to attack Ukraine and any peace offering would be used to regroup and get the Russian army out of defeat on the field. Zellenskiy might agree to a cease fire, if they moved out, but that is far different than a peace deal and that is what we want, but with all of Ukraine. If Vlad's days are numbered in terms of health or life, then retirement is possible while having a fall guy make the humiliating peace deal, then he is disposed of and it's back to business, or to try and pick up the pieces.

One thing though, the more of the Russian army the Ukrainians destroy and the more weakened the Russians become, the less willing they and their close allies will be willing to compromise. Don't kid yourself, Belarus is in somebody's sights in the near future. Perhaps in the ensuing confusion in wake of Vlad's death there could be some movement, but if the Russian army collapses on the field in Ukraine this summer, it will be game over.

A peace offer by Vlad might be accepted temporarily, but only because America agreed to arm Ukraine to the fucking teeth, while the cease fire was on going. They would need to get stronger quicker than the Russians could, but they would hold a referendum in Ukraine that would reject it. There is an election next year in Ukraine and no party will advocate for giving pieces to Russia! I believe going the whole 9 yards is favored by well over 80% of Ukrainians, if memory serves me correctly.

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America is not arming Ukraine to the teeth. If it and the rest of Nato was then there would be nothing left of Russia on the ground. Will the West keep pouring money and weapons into Ukraine? How much is this costing Ukraine, how much are they going into debt? The aid is not free.

printer said:

America is not arming Ukraine to the teeth. If it and the rest of Nato was then there would be nothing left of Russia on the ground. Will the West keep pouring money and weapons into Ukraine? How much is this costing Ukraine, how much are they going into debt? The aid is not free.

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That's the point, why extend this conflict when it can be ended relatively quickly to solve a host of issues like fuel prices and food. During the most recent fighting Ukraine was losing about 100 KIA and 3X wounded, about 400 causalities a day, however this intensity of combat has not been going on for long in the east. Since the Russians are attacking and it is a largely urban warfare fight right now with the Russians attacking with infantry and soaking up at least 3X the Ukrainians losses. They are also under the mortars of the Ukrainians just a couple of km away on the heights across the river and the 152 mm artillery and behind that the 155mm. Half the Russian army in Ukraine is concentrated in this small area and it must be a target rich environment for the Ukrainian artillery and mortars in deed.

So in a month of the most intense fighting Ukraine might lose as many as 3000 men KIA, but the Russians are attacking. They are under Ukrainian guns this time while their infantry tries to take the city and tanks dare not go in because the place is full of anti tank weapons. The Ukrainians on the high ground can provide air cover too so that is off the table for the Russians and they are low on drones. According to reports the Russians are getting slaughtered trying to take the city and the Ukrainians will withdraw, but not before destroying a few Russian BTGs.

Vlad will be making noises about peace when the situation on the ground becomes desperate enough and to get his ass out of a jam. In war resolution and any deal will be a real tough deal for Russia to swallow.

DIY-HP-LED said:

That's the point, why extend this conflict when it can be ended relatively quickly to solve a host of issues like fuel prices and food. During the most recent fighting Ukraine was losing about 100 KIA and 3X wounded, about 400 causalities a day, however this intensity of combat has not been going on for long in the east. Since the Russians are attacking and it is a largely urban warfare fight right now with the Russians attacking with infantry and soaking up at least 3X the Ukrainians losses. They are also under the mortars of the Ukrainians just a couple of km away on the heights across the river and the 152 mm artillery and behind that the 155mm. Half the Russian army in Ukraine is concentrated in this small area and it must be a target rich environment for the Ukrainian artillery and mortars in deed.

So in a month of the most intense fighting Ukraine might lose as many as 3000 men KIA, but the Russians are attacking. They are under Ukrainian guns this time while their infantry tries to take the city and tanks dare not go in because the place is full of anti tank weapons. The Ukrainians on the high ground can provide air cover too so that is off the table for the Russians and they are low on drones. According to reports the Russians are getting slaughtered trying to take the city and the Ukrainians will withdraw, but not before destroying a few Russian BTGs.

Vlad will be making noises about peace when the situation on the ground becomes desperate enough and to get his ass out of a jam. In war resolution and any deal will be a real tough deal for Russia to swallow.

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As long as the Russians can keep the Ukrainians on the other side of the river they can withdraw enough to stay relatively safe and say they control the area. It does not mater if it is a wasteland, it is for home consumption. But that does not change the fact that Putin is taking in $1B a day and it is paying for his war. The Ukrainians are probably burning through half that rate, but with little income. How much will they rack up the debt to take back land that will be hard to take back? You say the Russians are losing three times the Ukrainians, what if the Ukrainians try to take back the areas in urban warfare? Will they be losing 3X that the Russians? The closer the fighting comes to the Russian border the more Russia has at stake. It is not like Putin has to worry too much from the population, they are getting lied to. Russia will become even more of a police state than it is now. Given that we can not count on Putin dying where is the acceptable line for both sides to end the war?

printer said:

As long as the Russians can keep the Ukrainians on the other side of the river they can withdraw enough to stay relatively safe and say they control the area. It does not mater if it is a wasteland, it is for home consumption. But that does not change the fact that Putin is taking in $1B a day and it is paying for his war. The Ukrainians are probably burning through half that rate, but with little income. How much will they rack up the debt to take back land that will be hard to take back? You say the Russians are losing three times the Ukrainians, what if the Ukrainians try to take back the areas in urban warfare? Will they be losing 3X that the Russians? The closer the fighting comes to the Russian border the more Russia has at stake. It is not like Putin has to worry too much from the population, they are getting lied to. Russia will become even more of a police state than it is now. Given that we can not count on Putin dying where is the acceptable line for both sides to end the war?

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Well with superior ranged artillery that was designed back in the day to defeat the Russian artillery, they can have a 5 mile advantage when defending or attacking. They can keep the Russians 5 miles from the river bank minimum and they will have no drones to speak of. The Ukrainians don't have all the artillery they want, but much of it is concentrated on anything in range around the city and half the Russians in Ukraine are there trying to secure the last little piece of the oblast. They are doing this for political purposes and not military ones, it is the worst possible place for them to mass their forces. It looks like a trap for the Ukrainians, but they have their equipment across the river and only infantry and NLAWS are in the city. Meanwhile they are supported by Ukrainians on the heights behind them and the river around 2 km from the Russian lines by mortars and even Javelins at that distance. Then there is the artillery using drones striking Russian equipment 20 km from the river. It looks like a trap for the Russians to me and the last city in the oblast is the cheese.

They better be careful of what cities they hit, the French and Germans will return the rockets scrap with an apology. The Poles would declare article 5 and go for their fucking throats right through Belarus like shit through a goose, ditto for the UK, only with the Poles.
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DIY-HP-LED said:

They better be careful of what cities they hit, the French and Germans will return the rockets scrap with an apology. The Poles would declare article 5 and go for their fucking throats right through Belarus like shit through a goose, ditto for the UK, only with the Poles.
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Russia will strike West if US rockets hit us, says Putin ally

Dmitry Medvedev has warned that Moscow could target western cities if Ukraine uses rocket systems supplied by the United States to carry out strikes on Russian territory.

www.thetimes.co.uk

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it only shows a stub before paywalling

cannabineer said:

it only shows a stub before paywalling

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Last freebe for me, try a private window, incognito?

DIY-HP-LED said:

Last freebe for me, try a private window, incognito?

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sorry, that’s as likely as me solving a differential equation, or taking up rock climbing.

Update from Ukraine | We took Severodonetsk Back! Glory to Ukraine!

Russian army has 'basically failed' | Cedric Leighton
85,484 views Jun 4, 2022 “The Russians have basically failed in terms of their organisation and their ability to carry out their operations.” Is the Russian army lacking organisation and slowing the invasion down? Kait Borsay asks former Pentagon joint staff member, Cedric Leighton, on #TimesRadio.

cannabineer said:

it only shows a stub before paywalling

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i use firefox browser, it has "reader mode"...no graphics, but it will display the text of nearly any page

Russia will strike West if US rockets hit us, says Putin ally
Julian O’Shaughnessy

3 minutes


One of President Putin’s closest allies has warned that Moscow could target western cities if Ukraine uses rocket systems supplied by the United States to carry out strikes on Russian territory.
Washington said this week that it was sending M142 high-mobility artillery rocket systems to Ukraine, which will more than double its army’s artillery range and allow it to strike targets 50 miles away.
“If, God forbid, these weapons are used against Russian territory then our armed forces will have no other choice but to strike decision-making centres,” said Dmitry Medvedev, a former prime minister under Putin who is deputy chairman of Russia’s national security council.
“Of course, it needs to be understood that the final decision-making centres in this case, unfortunately, are not located on the territory of Kyiv,” he said in an interview with Al Jazeera. Officials in Moscow have accused Nato of using the war in Ukraine to wage a proxy war against Russia.
Medvedev, who also served a single term as president from 2008 to 2012 but was widely viewed as Putin’s puppet, was once seen as a liberalising force in Russia but has transformed in recent months into one of Moscow’s biggest hawks.
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He also warned that the fighting in Ukraine was pushing the world dangerously close to nuclear Armageddon, saying: “The Horsemen of the Apocalypse are already on their way and all hope now is with Lord God the Almighty.”
Kremlin-controlled state television has said on a number of occasions that Moscow could launch nuclear missiles against western countries, including Britain, if the war in Ukraine turns against Russia.
The White House said it had agreed to provide Ukraine with the guided missiles after receiving assurances from President Zelensky that they would not be used to hit targets inside Russia. The Kremlin said it did not believe Zelensky. “The United States is directly and intentionally adding fuel to the fire,” Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s spokesman, said.
Russia has accused Ukraine of using combat helicopters and drones to carry out a number of cross-border strikes on villages and oil depots since the start of the war in February. Kyiv has neither confirmed nor denied the allegations.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i use firefox browser, it has "reader mode"...no graphics, but it will display the text of nearly any page

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which phone?