Wanted to try a grow, so here we go... C99

P

puffdatchronic

Well-Known Member
Hey great dane looking great so far. I told you guys this strain is amazingly low odour when growing ,it's perfect for growing indoors.I didn't even need to spray an airfreshner the entire grow. However, once you cut her down ,she reeks ,and I mean seriously reeks. The smell is no reflection on the high either which is REALLLY good.Don't be put off by the low odour, embrace it. I may regret not going with c99 this grow if northern lights stinks my house out..
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
Kite High said:
Dont stop feeding them ...it will hurt your yield bro....pretty bud btw
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I hear you Kite, I have 12 days until lights out after today. I was going to feed with the FloraGro and FloraMicro on day 41 and again on day 47 or so. Let them dry nicely, one more good soak with cal/mag and lights out for three days. Then I talked myself out of it. I thought that the N in the cal/mag would be enough and the K wouldn't be missed. I'll now reconsider since you and TC say keep feeding and you guys are way ahead of me when it comes to knowing what you're doing. This board is full of posters who say "plain water for the last two weeks and let 'em turn yellow". I know that is not a theory that you subscribe to, but, I wasn't sure about ferts all the way to lights out. Would you give a thumbs up to my plan above? Thanks in advance.

I took this one today. It's from the runt of the bunch which was the easiest to move away from the HPS to get a good photo. Nice and frosty, wouldn't you agree? :-D




62.jpg
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Looking so nice man. I think your plan sounds decent. I feed all the way till the end currently but I also don't run super hot nutes so some times my plants fade a bit near the end. Either way I think you'll end up happy if you give them a good slow dry which I believe is the key to flavor. As far as the last soak after the feed at day 47 I would prolly just use water on that cus I doubt the plant will use much nutes during the lights out, and at that point if it took any nutes it could from the leaves it wouldn't hurt in my eyes.

Man as far as the board full of posters saying to flush the last 2 weeks and what not. There is sooo many people here that just parrot things they have read other places and here. There are also many who think they are getting the best results possible, but haven't tried other techniques or ideas. I've got several years under my belt at this point but am far from the end of my learning. I specifically came back to RIU because I was wanted to start actively learning more again, but you gotta weed the good info out from the bad.
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
Thundercat said:
Looking so nice man. I think your plan sounds decent. I feed all the way till the end currently but I also don't run super hot nutes so some times my plants fade a bit near the end. Either way I think you'll end up happy if you give them a good slow dry which I believe is the key to flavor. As far as the last soak after the feed at day 47 I would prolly just use water on that cus I doubt the plant will use much nutes during the lights out, and at that point if it took any nutes it could from the leaves it wouldn't hurt in my eyes.

Man as far as the board full of posters saying to flush the last 2 weeks and what not. There is sooo many people here that just parrot things they have read other places and here. There are also many who think they are getting the best results possible, but haven't tried other techniques or ideas. I've got several years under my belt at this point but am far from the end of my learning. I specifically came back to RIU because I was wanted to start actively learning more again, but you gotta weed the good info out from the bad.
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Thanks for the input TC. Yeah, I will go with plain water on that last day. I'm going to try the cure using hygrometers and get them to 62% humidity nice and slowly. As for the information that's put out here, I take it all in and then try to reason it out for myself. A lot of "experts" out there.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
"Advanced - Flushing

A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.


Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Case-12-Boveda-62-2-Way-Humidifier-Packs-Humidipak-humidor-new-60-grams-GIFT-/330866227077?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0929f785

for the perfect cure
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
puffdatchronic said:
Hey great dane looking great so far. I told you guys this strain is amazingly low odour when growing ,it's perfect for growing indoors.I didn't even need to spray an airfreshner the entire grow. However, once you cut her down ,she reeks ,and I mean seriously reeks. The smell is no reflection on the high either which is REALLLY good.Don't be put off by the low odour, embrace it. I may regret not going with c99 this grow if northern lights stinks my house out..
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NL is low odor as well...but doesn't smell like fruit....great trippy high eh? So my 52 day rec was a good one yes?
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
Kite, what a great read. A scientific look at the processes necessary for a plant to grow and thrive. I couldn't get most of the links to load, but, the information is available to find for further research. Since a plant needs mobile and immobile elements to work in harmony to thrive, flushing the immobile ones from the root zone would cause a serious deficiency during a critical period of the plants life. The key is to be balanced; not excessive or deficient all the way to the end. You my friend know your shit, and the fact that you give references and don't just say "do this" makes it all the more credible. :clap:


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kite High again.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Yep Kite has some great experience, and knowledge on how to grow these plants. He also typically has a very open mind and good attitude unlike a few other very experienced growers on this site.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
open to anything but idiocy and posers...if I don't know I will find the truth...and experience is worth more than all the books and forums combined

Pre-harvest flushing and defoliation are my pet peeves...I do understand that in a few instances where size/height matters it may prove useful...what I do not get is how removing the food factories will in anyway increase yield...for if this were true then there is no need for higher powered light sources ..you know? IOW if less leaves yield more then 400 watts should outyield 1000 watts...but this isnt true...so less leaves do not increase yield...the plant will automatically adjust itself to maximize resources alot better than we could ever guess....most of all cannabis is a plant...its not mystical nor does it take a bazillion bottles to provide the salts it needs...

I just hope I help and improve people's desired outcomes

And Tc you know your shit too bro...gd you're off to a fine start... glad to have met you guys :eyesmoke:
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
GreatDane said:
Kite, what a great read. A scientific look at the processes necessary for a plant to grow and thrive. I couldn't get most of the links to load, but, the information is available to find for further research. Since a plant needs mobile and immobile elements to work in harmony to thrive, flushing the immobile ones from the root zone would cause a serious deficiency during a critical period of the plants life. The key is to be balanced; not excessive or deficient all the way to the end. You my friend know your shit, and the fact that you give references and don't just say "do this" makes it all the more credible. :clap:




You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kite High again.
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The writeup is a bit dated hence the now defunct links but I assure you it is accurate and as you stated it is out there if you look...study botany ...I have and do....your grows will show it
 
Adam & Cola

Adam & Cola

Well-Known Member
I have looked forward to tomorrow "Thursday" for a long time.. it will be the last time I change out my DWC nutrient supply.. Can't fucking wait, especially now.
Too my surprise, yesterday I got a notice on my door saying that today there was going to be some maintanence done in my apartment.. I wasn't too worried though and niether was my paranoid girlfriend since there is still a lack of smell coming from my frosty, ripe, mature girl and now lights are out these last few days, I don't have to worry about heat. . Anyways, I found my locking door knob just in case and installed it in a L.A. minute. and put my dog in front of the door in her crate when I left this morning for work.. haha..

Come to find out, they didn't even come into my apartment. FUCKERS!! Well tomorrow she wont be in her crate bitches. BEWARE!!
Friday night I chop :)
I could have gone the puffdaddy route and yanked her in my panic and abuse her, but I've gone this far. I'm not going to mistreat her now. Whats the worst that could happen? they evict a medically evaluated mj user that provides his own medicine. I've said it from the beginning of my grow. i'm moving next month.
Come to think of it.. Puff had a better scare than I did.. lol
I just couldn't muster up the balls to yank her knowing she is just a few short days away. All praise the C99 worshippers
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Adam & Cola said:
I have looked forward to tomorrow "Thursday" for a long time.. it will be the last time I change out my DWC nutrient supply.. Can't fucking wait, especially now.
Too my surprise, yesterday I got a notice on my door saying that today there was going to be some maintanence done in my apartment.. I wasn't too worried though and niether was my paranoid girlfriend since there is still a lack of smell coming from my frosty, ripe, mature girl and now lights are out these last few days, I don't have to worry about heat. . Anyways, I found my locking door knob just in case and installed it in a L.A. minute. and put my dog in front of the door in her crate when I left this morning for work.. haha..

Come to find out, they didn't even come into my apartment. FUCKERS!! Well tomorrow she wont be in her crate bitches. BEWARE!!
Friday night I chop :)
I could have gone the puffdaddy route and yanked her in my panic and abuse her, but I've gone this far. I'm not going to mistreat her now. Whats the worst that could happen? they evict a medically evaluated mj user that provides his own medicine. I've said it from the beginning of my grow. i'm moving next month.
Come to think of it.. Puff had a better scare than I did.. lol
I just couldn't muster up the balls to yank her knowing she is just a few short days away. All praise the C99 worshippers
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they're coming along since sprouting 3-21-13





wouldn't you say? you know 2 weeks from sprout? Am I doing ok?:mrgreen:
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Glad they survived the scare there A&C. Kite those girls are looking mighty nice for ya bud. Her in a few days I'll give you guys the 20 day photo of my Cindy in flower. You'll have to go back and look at the others or edit them together yourselves I'm not the ambitious. I believe all the rest of you did the photo at 20 days from when they plant went into 12/12 correct, just so I can do it the same as you guys? I am going to take this Cindy at 52 days from 12/12 like has been suggested. When I put the clone of this plant in I will be letting it flower for 52 days from when I see pistils, and I am gonna try to do a comparison between them. As the genetics are mature on them it will only be about a 5 day difference but I'm curious if it will be noticeable.
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
Adam & Cola said:
I have looked forward to tomorrow "Thursday" for a long time.. it will be the last time I change out my DWC nutrient supply.. Can't fucking wait, especially now.
Too my surprise, yesterday I got a notice on my door saying that today there was going to be some maintanence done in my apartment.. I wasn't too worried though and niether was my paranoid girlfriend since there is still a lack of smell coming from my frosty, ripe, mature girl and now lights are out these last few days, I don't have to worry about heat. . Anyways, I found my locking door knob just in case and installed it in a L.A. minute. and put my dog in front of the door in her crate when I left this morning for work.. haha..

Come to find out, they didn't even come into my apartment. FUCKERS!! Well tomorrow she wont be in her crate bitches. BEWARE!!
Friday night I chop :)
I could have gone the puffdaddy route and yanked her in my panic and abuse her, but I've gone this far. I'm not going to mistreat her now. Whats the worst that could happen? they evict a medically evaluated mj user that provides his own medicine. I've said it from the beginning of my grow. i'm moving next month.
Come to think of it.. Puff had a better scare than I did.. lol
I just couldn't muster up the balls to yank her knowing she is just a few short days away. All praise the C99 worshippers
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Well, it's Saturday morning so you should be trimmed and drying nicely. :grin: Hope it went well for you and glad that the other situation wasn't a problem.
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
Wow, those are only two weeks old! I am impressed that you could get them that far along in such a short time. I remember PD saying how slowly they went at first and mine did too. Knowledge and experience, a great combination.
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
TC, yes we posted day 20 photos. Somewhere in PD's thread is the comparison that I believe LG put together. Mine wasn't there yet so I posted it later. I'm curious to hear the results of your "test".


Here is day 20 for me:


48.jpg
 
GreatDane

GreatDane

Active Member
Today is day 42 of flower. I am noticing some of the older, large, mature fan leaves turning yellow and some of the newer leaves at the top starting to turn a bit. I fed with nutes and upped the micro to get more immobile elements into the root zone. It's obvious that the big leaves are being a source for translocation and I needed to get some nutes to them (Thanks again Kite). I am going to try my best to keep them green until next Friday. My light cycle will require me to go lights out after day 48. That would give me a 72 hour dark period to day 51. I would then chop the next morning on day 52. Does that sound right, or should I go day 49 to 52 and chop the morning of day 53? My light cycle goes out at night so the 72 hour period would end at night and I would chop the next morning.
 
eastcoastmo

eastcoastmo

Well-Known Member
Looking great there Great Dane :D glad to hear Kite has given advice for the yellowing, good to nip that in the bud early :) im wondering if you may have a hot spot in the middle there where its not getting enough air to push out the heat? Ive got a similar issue with heat spots but it seems to have picked up a lot since opening a hatch at the bottom of my tent to allow more fresh air in...
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
GreatDane said:
Today is day 42 of flower. I am noticing some of the older, large, mature fan leaves turning yellow and some of the newer leaves at the top starting to turn a bit. I fed with nutes and upped the micro to get more immobile elements into the root zone. It's obvious that the big leaves are being a source for translocation and I needed to get some nutes to them (Thanks again Kite). I am going to try my best to keep them green until next Friday. My light cycle will require me to go lights out after day 48. That would give me a 72 hour dark period to day 51. I would then chop the next morning on day 52. Does that sound right, or should I go day 49 to 52 and chop the morning of day 53? My light cycle goes out at night so the 72 hour period would end at night and I would chop the next morning.
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Your plan is fine ... In a month your are gonna be in love withis strain
 
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