Vermiculite as a source of silica?

Hi!

As many people here, I watched Bruce Bugbee's educational videos, where he suggests using a medium made of 50% peat and 50% vermiculite and says that vermiculite has lots of silica for the plant.

While researching about this, I found this site which says that vermiculite doesn't work as a source of silica ("sand, pumice, perlite, vermiculite, and rockwool are technically silicon materials, but the silicon is hardly available to plants and they won’t offer health benefits"), and suggests using diatomaceous earth.

So... contradictions in the web, that's a new one... xD

What do you think about this?

I always use diatomaceous earth for silica, the finer the powder, the faster it’s available for the roots.

on that note:
Vermiculite is granular, so it would take a long time for it to breakdown and become available for consumption.
I’m sure vermiculite has a good source of silica, but would take too long to give that to the soil/plants.

I’d stick with something much faster acting unless you’re an outdoor grower who is amending the land for future use

Green_Alchemist said:

I always use diatomaceous earth for silica, the finer the powder, the faster it’s available for the roots.

on that note:
Vermiculite is granular, so it would take a long time for it to breakdown and become available for consumption.
I’m sure vermiculite has a good source of silica, but would take too long to give that to the soil/plants.

I’d stick with something much faster acting unless you’re an outdoor grower who is amending the land for future use

Click to expand...

thanks for your response! can i use it mixed in the medium and not worry about silica anymore?

billevans92 said:

thanks for your response! can i use it mixed in the medium and not worry about silica anymore?

Click to expand...

You absolutely can

I like to mix it into the medium with my beginning amendments, but you can also top dress it anytime.
Sometimes I’ll mix 1 TBSP in with a litre of water and apply to the soil directly that way.

It’s awesome stuff honestly; It helps having a quicker acting amendment with Organics to help with issues (also keeps the ants and soil dwelling critters away, can’t complain with that!)

Green_Alchemist said:

You absolutely can

I like to mix it into the medium with my beginning amendments, but you can also top dress it anytime.
Sometimes I’ll mix 1 TBSP in with a litre of water and apply to the soil directly that way.

It’s awesome stuff honestly; It helps having a quicker acting amendment with Organics to help with issues (also keeps the ants and soil dwelling critters away, can’t complain with that!)

Click to expand...

that's funk-tastic! i was wondering if diatomaceous would kill benefical life, but seems like u already answered with a big "no"

Green_Alchemist said:

I always use diatomaceous earth for silica, the finer the powder, the faster it’s available for the roots.

on that note:
Vermiculite is granular, so it would take a long time for it to breakdown and become available for consumption.
I’m sure vermiculite has a good source of silica, but would take too long to give that to the soil/plants.

I’d stick with something much faster acting unless you’re an outdoor grower who is amending the land for future use

Click to expand...

Hey I also use de for silica
How much you adding per gal of medium?

Jjgrow420 said:

Hey I also use de for silica
How much you adding per gal of medium?

Click to expand...

I’ve just been adding 1 Tsp per gallon of medium used with my beginning amendments

Right at the flip, I like to topdress my amendments and water it in with some DE mixed in water (1Tbsp per Litre of water)

Honestly though I’m no expert on DE, (still learning) and still playing around a bit with measurements, but lately have found this works well for me.

What have you been using per gallon? Really interested on what’s worked best for others too

Jjgrow420 said:

Hey I also use de for silica
How much you adding per gal of medium?

Click to expand...

take a look at this! maybe works as a reference https://www.harvesthero.com/shop/harvest-hero/#description. igredient list:
Perlite: 71.40%; Diatomaceous Earth: 17.10%; Fertilizer: 5.70%; Proprietary Aqueous solution: 5.00%; Other ingredients: 0.80%

i don't know this brand of soil and it's geographically impossible for me to get it, but the proportions seem like a good starting point, considering it also says that the mix "is mindfully crafted with essential macronutrients for the first four to six weeks of growth (...) with nitrogen provided by the organic matter in your soil choice of sphagnum, peat moss, or coco coir"

Green_Alchemist said:

I’ve just been adding 1 Tsp per gallon of medium used with my beginning amendments

Right at the flip, I like to topdress my amendments and water it in with some DE mixed in water (1Tbsp per Litre of water)

Honestly though I’m no expert on DE, (still learning) and still playing around a bit with measurements, but lately have found this works well for me.

What have you been using per gallon? Really interested on what’s worked best for others too

Click to expand...

I added a cup and and a half into my 15gal containers. Before I never measured I'd just dump a bunch in. Never seemed to hurt anything

billevans92 said:

Hi!

As many people here, I watched Bruce Bugbee's educational videos, where he suggests using a medium made of 50% peat and 50% vermiculite and says that vermiculite has lots of silica for the plant.

While researching about this, I found this site which says that vermiculite doesn't work as a source of silica ("sand, pumice, perlite, vermiculite, and rockwool are technically silicon materials, but the silicon is hardly available to plants and they won’t offer health benefits"), and suggests using diatomaceous earth.

So... contradictions in the web, that's a new one... xD

What do you think about this?

Click to expand...

Dr Bruce Bugbee specifically says an advantage of using vermiculite in your media is that it provides silica. I think it's true.

MidnightSun72 said:

Dr Bruce Bugbee specifically says an advantage of using vermiculite in your media is that it provides silica. I think it's true.

Click to expand...

he says that, and i like him and i tend to trust him because zcience buttt would this silica be available in the short-medium term for the plant and be efficient in an indoor setup?

Jjgrow420 said:

I added a cup and and a half into my 15gal containers. Before I never measured I'd just dump a bunch in. Never seemed to hurt anything

Click to expand...

Awesome, I’ll remember that and bump it up! Ive been wanting to try 1tbsp per gallon on my next grow, but thought I’d start low and take it slow before I go heavier on it

Green_Alchemist said:

Awesome, I’ll remember that and bump it up! Ive been wanting to try 1tbsp per gallon on my next grow, but thought I’d start low and take it slow before I go heavier on it

Click to expand...

Ya doesn't seem to do anything bad. I'll monitor the soils pH through the grow and see what happens.

i found some interesting sh*t: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12633-020-00877-5. can't access to the whole paper but there is a preview with what seems to be the conclusions:

"Identifying the source(s) of silicon (Si) for plant is a key issue in understanding the terrestrial cycle of Si and for deciphering the reservoir of bioavailable Si to Si accumulating crops. In soils, amorphous Si, one of the most bioavailable source, is mostly present as phytoliths and has been suggested for use as a Si fertilizer by diatomite application. Although clay minerals are known to contribute to plant nutrition, their role as a major source of silica for plants has not been fully addressed. We aim at evaluating the efficiency of clay minerals as a source of Si for crops. We conducted two pot experiments: one wheat-growing experiment to compare a clay (vermiculitic) mineral and amorphous silica particles (diatomite, which is used as a phytolith substitute), and one rice-growing experiment to compare two types of clay (kaolinite vs montmorillonite) common in rice cultivation. We confirmed that the amorphous silica was more efficient than vermiculite for Si uptake by wheat. However, the Si uptake was not significantly different between the 5% diatomite substrate and the 25% vermiculite substrate indicating that clays may challenge amorphous silica, as a source of Si for crops. The kaolinite probably delivered less Si to the rice than the montmorillonite because of the lower specific surface area and lower pH of kaolinite substrates. Because clays are generally much more abundant in soils than amorphous silica, we concluded that clays may be a substantial Si source for plants, depending on the clay mineralogy".

billevans92 said:

Hi!

As many people here, I watched Bruce Bugbee's educational videos, where he suggests using a medium made of 50% peat and 50% vermiculite and says that vermiculite has lots of silica for the plant.

While researching about this, I found this site which says that vermiculite doesn't work as a source of silica ("sand, pumice, perlite, vermiculite, and rockwool are technically silicon materials, but the silicon is hardly available to plants and they won’t offer health benefits"), and suggests using diatomaceous earth.

So... contradictions in the web, that's a new one... xD

What do you think about this?

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that, I saw the same link saying vermiculite adds very little silica to soil yet Bugbee says it's a great source of silica, was going to buy it for silica but don't need or want water to be retained (I use perlite now) but would love to know what the truth is, Bugbee also said use dolomitic lime to raise the ph of the peat but what I read it can take 1 to 3 years for lime to totally amend and raise ph of the soil, I though 90 days to cook living soil mixes was thinking ahead but 1-3 years and wondering what the ph is along the way seems like a lot of guessing work. I have a lot of respect for much of what I've watched from Bugbee but vermiculite and lime comments have me scratching my head.

Yeah DE is the way to go, you can pick up a bag at the hardware store for cheap.

Playk328 said:

Yeah DE is the way to go, you can pick up a bag at the hardware store for cheap.

Click to expand...

It's on my list to buy today, thank you, and happy growing.

I need to get some myself lol, Im glad I seen this post, it reminded me I needed it.

1st Bud said:

Thanks for posting that, I saw the same link saying vermiculite adds very little silica to soil yet Bugbee says it's a great source of silica, was going to buy it for silica but don't need or want water to be retained (I use perlite now) but would love to know what the truth is, Bugbee also said use dolomitic lime to raise the ph of the peat but what I read it can take 1 to 3 years for lime to totally amend and raise ph of the soil, I though 90 days to cook living soil mixes was thinking ahead but 1-3 years and wondering what the ph is along the way seems like a lot of guessing work. I have a lot of respect for much of what I've watched from Bugbee but vermiculite and lime comments have me scratching my head.

Click to expand...

i just read through this and thought i share. i use zeolite and basalt in my soil but also mulching beds or big organic living pots with silica accumulators should work best imo