USA - Probably the most ****ed up country on earth

Someacdude said:

I would research that, they surrendered and he was still declared emperor , Truman used the bomb to save lives, and i wasn't ever a fan of Truman.

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Doer said:

If that is not the truth of it NOTHING is.

We must read our history. Alexander faced the same problem in the -stan. The guys you need to help you in the winter, and you pay them, are the same ones you will fight in the spring.

He almost never made it into India because of that.

In Viet Nam it was hearts and minds, but iron bombs, no aim.

So, bad for civilians? The Cong were brutal. Saddam was brutal. Arafat was a brutal thug.
Only in self rule do we even care beyond the military needs.

How stupid to think the art of war is not minimizing the deaths of the worker bee civilians.

I'm watching a show right now about it. Embedded, with a Marine Company with a hell fire, pencil pushing combat Capt on search and destroy mission are going to fantastic risks to even be on the ground when the could carpet bomb the entire valley.

They have to push and survive and re-supply and push and look and sneak and mine sweep and have a pair of tanks on the flanks. They go thru the walls like in WW2, everything is booby trapped.

And they finally triangulate on the command post by Observation of all these Tangos and their movements. They have Apaches at long distance and low hover observing through high power, under the tree lines.

Finally the are assured there are fighters and only fighters in the C&C but the still cannot attack.
They push by and ignore it for more chatter intel on the tango radios and get more triangualtion of the dirt bike movement take more rounds, find more IEDs.

Then when they have pushed past maybe 10K meters, the Taliban get a GPS battle rocket from mile away while they watch. Hard on Marines to just watch. But it is a Profession.

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Rob Roy said:

Japan was already defeated and was actively engaged in the terms of surrender, WHETHER a surrender was going to happen was no longer an issue. As far as the emperor remaining, that simply proves my point....the real issue prior to using the bombs was politically the USA wanted an unconditional surrender. AFTER using the bombs, they didn't seem to give a shit if the Emperor remained as a figurehead.

Truman used the bomb to show the Russians his big muscles You may be right that the bombs may have saved SOME lives (USA troops) if a land war had been pursued in Japan, but that doesn't seem likely to have been the military course of action that would have happened anyhow atomic bomb or no atomic bomb. Do the lives of the innocent people in Japan count when you tally how many lives were lost or "saved" ?

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cannabineer said:

Howeffa zere iss a "ve". cn

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Rob Roy said:

I'll see your Colonel Klink and raise you a General Goering

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

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echelon1k1 said:

I'm glad you understand hearts and minds, it's a shame mcchrystal couldn't see his strategy through... Is that the National geo. show about 2/5 marines? I'm quite sure I was watching the same one where they were smashing down the walls of the compounds...

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Someacdude said:

Y ou do realize that the war was actively going on correct?
Also more people died by fire bombing than in both nuke bombs

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Doer said:

Hardly an example of self rule. Really just a modern Warlord.

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Someacdude said:

Oh no im for sure an American , but im pretty sure in know who you are , retired?

Look , your generation never had to face what some others have, how much was the dollar worth when you where 16?

Your one hostile dude, you kinda remind me of the old union dudes who always voted democrat and never knew why but would despise you if you ever questioned anything, why? Because they never really understood it themselves.

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Rob Roy said:

I'll see your Colonel Klink and raise you a General Goering

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

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Doer said:

The only hostility you see is in your mind. Try reading it in a soft gentle voice....see?

Why take this personal? I don't. I speak plainly and some don't hear hostility in it. You continue to sewer it into personal.

Maybe it is you, who are hostile, by accounts?

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Rob Roy said:

Japan was already defeated and was actively engaged in the terms of surrender, WHETHER a surrender was going to happen was no longer an issue. As far as the emperor remaining, that simply proves my point....the real issue prior to using the bombs was politically the USA wanted an unconditional surrender. AFTER using the bombs, they didn't seem to give a shit if the Emperor remained as a figurehead.

Truman used the bomb to show the Russians his big muscles You may be right that the bombs may have saved SOME lives (USA troops) if a land war had been pursued in Japan, but that doesn't seem likely to have been the military course of action that would have happened anyhow atomic bomb or no atomic bomb. Do the lives of the innocent people in Japan count when you tally how many lives were lost or "saved" ?

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NLXSK1 said:

Japan chose to attack the USA in an unprovoked way and wage a campaign of conquest across the pacific ocean. Why dont you look into the warcrimes the Japanese army committed. Things like Japanese getting drunk and going down to the local hospital and slaughtering patients in their beds with machetes, the institutionalized rape of women, etc...

American lives were saved. If it was more than 1,000 it was good enough.

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Doer said:

We continue to save them from the payback for Nanking. Everyone like omelets but want no eggs broken.

MacAurther hanged a bunch of them, and he hunted down the Bushido elements just as we continue against the Nazi in the Levant.

Japan prospers and the Gaza was to. Smarter enemies.

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Someacdude said:

Well lookie here, more peaceful muslims, firing weapons in a place where weapons are banned? Wow do you guys have it together.

http://news.yahoo.com/20-cars-torched-near-paris-veil-tensions-151158515.html

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