Upgrading LED Lights

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
I got to harvest so all is well. Im just stumped, can different seeds of same strain yield dramaticly different hash yields? Or is it my envoirment ? Why did another grower have above 20% yield but I only got 10%? Why did it happen to another strain 10% my favorite breeder that brought me my watermelon ultra here, said would be real high yielding..

They were right about my watermelon ultra in description.. Its up to 20% this here is 18.4%. Can the same pheno express different yield? No agitation to the bud so its the most it produced this time. Im about to test another strain to see if I got dramatically different results again in yield being short a ton.

About to just grow out a bunch of a few strains to bean hunt one more mvp. I feel insecure if I lose this WU pheno. Is it a stabilized trait some times in some strains? Could it be I never get the high hash yield pheno because my enviorment? Idk how to hunt for this if idk why I get shorted. I tried working with a strain another RIU member grew and got poor results.

Was their lighting better or just a good pheno or what.. I heard one say they only press rosin with outdoor due to the sun quality. Makes more hash. So idk maybe my lights arent great or dialed in enviorment idk. Im getting more scared of losing my WU though.
 

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medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Upgraded to mars hydro fce1500 baby! Two in each 2.5x5. Going to have a box fan above over each clone. It will allow ease of growing and maximum yield no dead spots. Yielded 165gs in that 3x3 with that type of setup not wall to wall but close. It was real comfortable. I want a good half a p each 2.5x5 or more with out sweating it. Also with dense colas.
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
So she hit 20% and over but 19% overall off 37gs to 7.17gs flower rosin. Of course with a small batch but hey its more. Hand trim ya herb! As for various results idk but I know a press or two going too rough can knock down some percentage. The last run was pretty good on my part pressing so idk why 17.68%.

So far if any pattern its the smaller plants that do that but then again I had 20% samples off full size plants. So idfk.
 

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medidedicated

Well-Known Member
Welp Im a mars hydro fanboy I guess. Thanks for making a bar light equal to the ts1000 its very aero dynamic. The box fan is bigger than the light. Hollow center. This will do. Didnt realize the driver cant really detach due to a short cord. Thats a bummer but I guess doesnt ruin the idea very much.
 

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cat shit

Well-Known Member
I have two 2.5x5’s that are 6.5’ tall and a 3x3 all flower tents. My style is 2.5x2.5’ wide plants with 6-6.5’ height and 3x3x6 for the first time.

So nothing bigger than 3x3x6 or the other tents any time soon and thats fine. I love the results of them.

I had evolved a bit growing wise especially doing clone side by sides same plant. Using minimal lighting, knock off brands and now sufficiently with mars hydro.

They work perfect for 2.5x2.5 but dont like the hazard. I see now a viparspectra p1500 is the same footprint. I just read theyre safer, is it?

Im interested in trying them out after my mars lights run their course.

What are key differences between the two? Why do my mars lights produce the best quality and yield and how could it compare to VS P1500?

Using this thread to evolve my knowledge and possession of lights eventually to HLG but why? Ill leave it at that.
In a 3' x 3' tent, I'd go with the Spider SE5000. It's got a very high PPFD, a good PPFD map, and it's pretty cheap.

The image below is the PPFD map, the image below that has been modified to support my argument.


View attachment 5413707

Spider has done a lot of re-engineering over the past couple of years and if you look at the 3' area in the center of this PPFD map for the SE5000, the map is, essentially perfectly flat in the 2' x 3' area. The values range from 1309 to 1205 which is excellent. It's only along the edges that there's significant light falloff and, while it's as low as 1000 in some areas vs almost 1300 in the center, a key point is that this is a PPFD map for the SE5000 in a 4' x 4' tent. If these measurements were taken in a 3' x 3' tent, it would be reasonable to increase the values at the tent sides by about 100µmol (that's the value I've seen in taking PPFD values in my 2' x 4' tent).

View attachment 5413712

HLG lights are very popular here and I suspect it's because a lot of growers are using the R spec light, a red heavy light. Red diodes are very electrically efficient and, when it comes to yield, the more photons the better (as long as you've got at least 4% blue in the spectrum). So HLG will do well but the plants will tend to be markedly taller than plant that are grown with a white LED or plants that are vegged with one of their B spec lights. Also, HLG lights, historically, have had a hot spot which makes it challenging to light the canopy with an even light cast.

I've retired my Growcraft X3 flower light and have replaced it with their SE4500. I can't find a light for a 2' x 4' tent that has both a very high PPFD while also having a very even PPFD map.

A few years ago, Spider came out with the SE 7000 which had an extremely even PPFD map in the 5' space and they've followed that approach in lights since then. More light = more weed* but more light + more even light = even more weed.

*up to the light saturation point
Hey delphs you want to run your mind scanner over this light tell me what you think for a 4x4 would like to know your insights on this light
 

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Delps8

Well-Known Member
Hey delphs you want to run your mind scanner over this light tell me what you think for a 4x4 would like to know your insights on this light
I'm flattered that you asked.

Per the spec on this page, it looks like a good light. The pluses for me are the spectrum and the PPFD map with the underlying assumption that you're running in ambient CO2 and with the caveat that you're not looking for get >1kµmol on your grow. I add those latter two items because, even though I'm in ambient CO2, I run at >1k and, if you're thinking about running CO2, this light will not take full advantage of that enhancement.

The spectrum is standard - enough blue and "lotsa" red. Blue photons are good to have for a handful of reasons, one of which is that it tends to make branches strong.

The PPFD map is pretty good. Not setting records for peak values but, if you compare the how even the values are against other lights, it looks pretty nice. If you're so inclined, fire up Excel (doesn't everyone have Excel? ;-) ), put the PPFD values in a table, and create a surface chart (Insert/Chart/…). When I was looking around for a new flower light, I found surface charts helpful in understanding the uniformity of the light.

Here's the table I created for my flower light:

1736879969643.png

and here's the surface chart:

1736879923223.png

When I look at that, I see a lot of light fall off at each end. That's just an example of the data. It's for a 12" hang height so that has the least even light cast because uniformity increases as hang height increases.

Here's the data and chart for a light I was thinking about using:

1736880068854.png

And the chart:

1736880082703.png

The pictures make it pretty obvious that the SE4500 does a better job at putting an even spread of photons across the canopy.

If you run the numbers from the Digi-Lumen, I think you'll see that they hold up pretty well until you hit the edges of the 4' space.

One item about the DL is that it's only IP 45 rated for water resistance (so don't use it underwater) and some of the competing lights might be 60 rated. Not sure and also it only matters if it matters.

The DL is sold without a driver so you'll have to factor that into the $$.

Overall, this looks like a good, mid-range product that will deliver a high PPFD with a very even lightcast.

I haven't compared it to other lights for a 4' tent. I'm that familiar with lights for that sized tent but, frankly, with a decent spectrum and a dismountable driver, the next issue is the PPFD map. It's a numbers-based approach for me (no surprise) because grow lights are now a commodity product so there's not that much to distinguish one product from another.

If this light is a contender for you, allow me to assume that you're Down Under. If that's the case, check out the offerings from Grow Light Australia. A couple of years back, I ran across one of their lights and my jaw dropped when I saw the spectrum. It had lots of 660, less 480, and just the right amount of 730. The downside was that the price here in the US was pretty steep but, if one of their products is in your price range, I would rate them as a serious contender.

Another option is to go with 2 lights designed for a 2' x 4' space. My reasoning for that is that it provides some redundancy (though it's unlikely that they would fail) but, more important, it makes it easy to handle an uneven canopy. That's a personal bias, I admit, because when I try to grow two plants in my 2' x 4' tent, I always end up with a "Twins" grow. This photo is from my current grow.

I use the main light for the larger plant and feed the smaller plant with a Vipar XS 1500.

1736881011862.jpeg

It's unusual to have a grow that's this uneven but if you have one light and an uneven canopy, you're SOL.

This does not work.
1736881152589.jpeg

Again, a personal preference but having two smaller lights does have some advantages. Food for thought.

Interesting - I read the posting of mine that you've quoted and I ended up returning the SE4500 and have continued to use the Growcraft. The SE4500 was a better light but I returned it because I wanted to trial another light. Spider replaced the 420 watt driver in that light with a 300 watt (IIRC) driver. The 430 watt driver was exactly what I wanted because it generates a huge amount of light. I suspect that Spider changed the driver because growers were frying their plants and/or they could reduce manufacturing cost with the lower power light and still sell a decent product. After testing the another light, I went to order the SE 4500 again and that's when I found out that they had gelded the light. :-(

Not to belabor that point but I think this is good news, regardless of which light you get. After trialing a few different lights to replace my aging Growcraft, I ended up getting a set of Spider R80 deep red accessory lights. 660nm light is great to add in flower because red diodes are very electrically efficient and, at $60, it's a no-brainer purchase. I'm getting about 300µmol on my grow (12"± hang height) for only 60 watts and that allows me to drop the input wattage on my Growcraft by 130 watts. IN addition to saving $$ on electricity (about 45¢ per kWh!), by reducing the wattage from the Growcraft, I was able to drop the ambient temperature by 2°F. That's a big win because secondary metabolites don't handle temps >78°F very well.
 

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cat shit

Well-Known Member
I'm flattered that you asked.

Per the spec on this page, it looks like a good light. The pluses for me are the spectrum and the PPFD map with the underlying assumption that you're running in ambient CO2 and with the caveat that you're not looking for get >1kµmol on your grow. I add those latter two items because, even though I'm in ambient CO2, I run at >1k and, if you're thinking about running CO2, this light will not take full advantage of that enhancement.

The spectrum is standard - enough blue and "lotsa" red. Blue photons are good to have for a handful of reasons, one of which is that it tends to make branches strong.

The PPFD map is pretty good. Not setting records for peak values but, if you compare the how even the values are against other lights, it looks pretty nice. If you're so inclined, fire up Excel (doesn't everyone have Excel? ;-) ), put the PPFD values in a table, and create a surface chart (Insert/Chart/…). When I was looking around for a new flower light, I found surface charts helpful in understanding the uniformity of the light.

Here's the table I created for my flower light:

View attachment 5450811

and here's the surface chart:

View attachment 5450810

When I look at that, I see a lot of light fall off at each end. That's just an example of the data. It's for a 12" hang height so that has the least even light cast because uniformity increases as hang height increases.

Here's the data and chart for a light I was thinking about using:

View attachment 5450812

And the chart:

View attachment 5450813

The pictures make it pretty obvious that the SE4500 does a better job at putting an even spread of photons across the canopy.

If you run the numbers from the Digi-Lumen, I think you'll see that they hold up pretty well until you hit the edges of the 4' space.

One item about the DL is that it's only IP 45 rated for water resistance (so don't use it underwater) and some of the competing lights might be 60 rated. Not sure and also it only matters if it matters.

The DL is sold without a driver so you'll have to factor that into the $$.

Overall, this looks like a good, mid-range product that will deliver a high PPFD with a very even lightcast.

I haven't compared it to other lights for a 4' tent. I'm that familiar with lights for that sized tent but, frankly, with a decent spectrum and a dismountable driver, the next issue is the PPFD map. It's a numbers-based approach for me (no surprise) because grow lights are now a commodity product so there's not that much to distinguish one product from another.

If this light is a contender for you, allow me to assume that you're Down Under. If that's the case, check out the offerings from Grow Light Australia. A couple of years back, I ran across one of their lights and my jaw dropped when I saw the spectrum. It had lots of 660, less 480, and just the right amount of 730. The downside was that the price here in the US was pretty steep but, if one of their products is in your price range, I would rate them as a serious contender.

Another option is to go with 2 lights designed for a 2' x 4' space. My reasoning for that is that it provides some redundancy (though it's unlikely that they would fail) but, more important, it makes it easy to handle an uneven canopy. That's a personal bias, I admit, because when I try to grow two plants in my 2' x 4' tent, I always end up with a "Twins" grow. This photo is from my current grow.

I use the main light for the larger plant and feed the smaller plant with a Vipar XS 1500.

View attachment 5450814

It's unusual to have a grow that's this uneven but if you have one light and an uneven canopy, you're SOL.

This does not work.
View attachment 5450815

Again, a personal preference but having two smaller lights does have some advantages. Food for thought.

Interesting - I read the posting of mine that you've quoted and I ended up returning the SE4500 and have continued to use the Growcraft. The SE4500 was a better light but I returned it because I wanted to trial another light. Spider replaced the 420 watt driver in that light with a 300 watt (IIRC) driver. The 430 watt driver was exactly what I wanted because it generates a huge amount of light. I suspect that Spider changed the driver because growers were frying their plants and/or they could reduce manufacturing cost with the lower power light and still sell a decent product. After testing the another light, I went to order the SE 4500 again and that's when I found out that they had gelded the light. :-(

Not to belabor that point but I think this is good news, regardless of which light you get. After trialing a few different lights to replace my aging Growcraft, I ended up getting a set of Spider R80 deep red accessory lights. 660nm light is great to add in flower because red diodes are very electrically efficient and, at $60, it's a no-brainer purchase. I'm getting about 300µmol on my grow (12"± hang height) for only 60 watts and that allows me to drop the input wattage on my Growcraft by 130 watts. IN addition to saving $$ on electricity (about 45¢ per kWh!), by reducing the wattage from the Growcraft, I was able to drop the ambient temperature by 2°F. That's a big win because secondary metabolites don't handle temps >78°F very well.
As always extremely informative and detailed assessment thanks mate appreciate. You should start your own you tube channel lol
 

medidedicated

Well-Known Member
This is literally way brighter than a ts1000 lol. Strong light! I think I even get to still show off my stickers lol. I put the fan and filter outside just gonna do that for all tents except veg. It just allows for perfect positioning for better ease of growth.

The inline fan aint shit anyway it just needs to be there to reduce rh but if its not then good luck because youre pushin it lol. I am geekin, all my tents are about to kick ARSE!
 

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