trayvan martin

Samwell Seed Well said:

ok ya i didnt know that, but what about all the other stuff i said . . .. your not a sniper .. . . this isnt one strike and your out . .debate class . . . .so what about the stalking and harassing with a fire arm begin illegal(im not sure if it is but it is florida?) and martin being able to stand his ground .. . . . . . and i just dont think Mr Z was in mortal danger more like his fear and anger got the better and those are excuses they help give context to what happened but

ignorance is not a excuse when someone has died

and Harrekendoll your a better grower then yes man, tell us what you really think

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Yes, someone died and that is a tragedy, particularly for Trayvon's parents.

There was no stalking. There was no harassment.

You don't think Z was in mortal danger and you speculate about his fear and anger. Others see it differently. I certainly see it differently.

If I were cold-cocked and then mounted by my adversary who then proceeded to slam my head into the ground I "would reasonably fear great bodily harm or death" and would use lethal force to protect myself if I was able. That is what Zimmer claims and what the eye witnesses and police report corroborate. That is why Zimmer was not charged.

Samwell Seed Well said:

ok ya i didnt know that, but what about all the other stuff i said . . .. your not a sniper .. . . this isnt one strike and your out . .debate class . . . .so what about the stalking and harassing with a fire arm begin illegal(im not sure if it is but it is florida?) and martin being able to stand his ground .. . . . . . and i just dont think Mr Z was in mortal danger more like his fear and anger got the better and those are excuses they help give context to what happened but

ignorance is not a excuse when someone has died

and Harrekendoll your a better grower then yes man, tell us what you really think

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What I think is Zimmerman spotted a kid "acting suspiciously" (possibly profiling, everyone is guilty of it to some extent sometimes) and kept an eye on him whilst calling the cops. Now purely speculating from this point on, as it is unclear, I then think Zimmerman foolishly approached Treyvon, to which he took offence. I think a scuffle occurred, with the person who started it unclear, Martin probably got the upper hand and Zimmerman shot Martin.

Is it right? No.

Could it have been avoided? For sure.

Is it legal if as said above Martin attacked Zimmerman? Yes.

Morality aside, in an armed society, shootings will occur. How is this even unusual to you people?

wierd some how what Zimmerman did can be described exactly by the definitions of those words

and with a fire arm to boot . . . . .i bet these are all points that are discussed at trial to put the whole situation into the context of the person who created and started it

and walking down your street is not suspicious , and you can only be profiling if you are trained . . other wise its pretty much basic bigotry . . . . race doesnt matter

Samwell Seed Well said:

wouldnt body position dictate where he was shot and where zimmerman was . . . unless he was moved

so you going to completely ignore my thoughts on the stalking and harassing as you go on and snipe and split hairs on all the other " ilrelevent " thoughts i have

oh and picking apart spelling errors that must be supper hard when i post . . . .lmfao does it make you feel good lol but guess you have nothing else to add so you try and make me look incompetent . . . . .. . . . . . .i wonder why you cant post what you think . . . is it cuase you would have to go back and change all the other post that contradict it previously? its real simple to explian what you think

i have

and in parts am wrong . .. . . .and i am man enough to admit it

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I have not picked on your spelling lately. You are doing a fine job of displaying your incompetence, you need no help from me on that point. I have already said what I think, more times than necessary.

. . .you question what other people think . . . but cant be questioned yourself

your not inclined to have to explain yourself . . . . . . .hmm and you describe me as incompetent

as you ignore a perfectly reasonable question about the definition of stalking and harass and how they dont apply for some reason to Zimmerman in this situation . . . .

what verbs and adjectives would you use to describe Zimmermans actions . . .im going to assume words that mean the same things as i wrote just benign words with no negative or legal connotations

. . . . .. . .its real easy to pick apart what people think . .. . try me . . what do you think

how long does it take to give a candid response . . . i wonder . . . ..

Samwell Seed Well said:

. . .you question what other people think . . . but cant be questioned yourself

your not inclined to have to explain yourself . . . . . . .hmm and you describe me as incompetent

as you ignore a perfectly reasonable question about the definition of stalking and harass and how they dont apply for some reason to Zimmerman in this situation . . . .

what verbs and adjectives would you use to describe Zimmermans actions . . .im going to assume words that mean the same things as i wrote just benign words with no negative connotation

. . . . .. . .

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I didn't describe you as incompetent, you described you as incompetent. I simply did not disagree.

There are nearly 4,000 comments on this thread with a fair number of them from me. I have stated what I think happened; basically I agree with Harrekin's post above. I have also stated that I am perfectly willing to change my mind if somebody has some actual evidence that contradicts Zimmer's account; so far, I have seen no such evidence.

and now you play split the hair .. .you siad and and infered it . . . so by saying i do more than enough to seem incompetent you dont mean im incompetent . . . lol . . what . ..it was a rhetorical statement? lol

keeping avoiding having to explain your thoughts lol your a joke . . .why do you even respond if you dont intend of explaining why you think what you do . . . is it just for attention or post count in the political forum so you can say im connected/connecting with the younger generation

desert dude said:

I didn't describe you as incompetent, you described you as incompetent. I simply did not disagree.

There are nearly 4,000 comments on this thread with a fair number of them from me. I have stated what I think happened; basically I agree with Harrekin's post above. I have also stated that I am perfectly willing to change my mind if somebody has some actual evidence that contradicts Zimmer's account; so far, I have seen no such evidence.

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the man's has a history of violence and inability to reason imho and he killed someone he knowingly stalked

you really think this man of questionable values is going to tell the truth . . . .eye witness reports are not corroborating evidence . . . .the term evidence means its viable information to use at trial . . .eye witness accounts of a scuffle is hardly any indication of mortal fear and the eye witness all have similar accounts but not the same . . . . but yes peoples opinons will be evidense but that imho is a desperate attempt to excuse zimmerman from his crime when it should be fairly cut and dry

if he was innocent there wouldnt be a trail andwe all know it . . . .and we also all agree he wont get charged with murder . . . at least i think he wont

the fact that his crime he will be charged with is refereed to as manslaughter doesnt change that he killed that kid . . .

Harrekin said:

What I think is Zimmerman spotted a kid "acting suspiciously" (possibly profiling, everyone is guilty of it to some extent sometimes) and kept an eye on him whilst calling the cops. Now purely speculating from this point on, as it is unclear, I then think Zimmerman foolishly approached Treyvon, to which he took offence. I think a scuffle occurred, with the person who started it unclear, Martin probably got the upper hand and Zimmerman shot Martin.

Is it right? No.

Could it have been avoided? For sure.

Is it legal if as said above Martin attacked Zimmerman? Yes.

Morality aside, in an armed society, shootings will occur. How is this even unusual to you people?

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The trouble I have with this scenario is that Zimmerman bore none of the injuries that he claimed to have received in a scuffle, or that he would have received if at any point he were on the receiving end of a scuffle. That does not mean I am crowing "not possible", but I consider that less likely than the putative prosecution's scenario: that Z provoked and controlled all phases of the confrontation up until he shot Trayvon.
We know that Z left his truck, disregarded dispatch's firm suggestion to not follow the then still-unidentified Trayvon, and was then seen standing by/on Trayvon's body. We simply do not know what happened in between those knowns. But as Z chose to pursue, I consider it rather more likely that he drew and fired at a perceived threat that, in retrospect, didn't exist. After all, anyone with a file and a screwdriver can mod a Skittles box to full-auto ... cn

and this^^^^^^^^^^ is exactly why he will be convicted

the choice to engage a situation that was made up in his head is the reason why Martin is dead . . . . . .everything else is the result of the lack or rational thought process and premeditated

. . . . . he should get murder 1 but the spin doctors and hair splitters of the world will make zimmermans choices to persue and confront martin as everyday as going shopping at a store and locking your car

its BS or as webster calls it a fallacy

opinions and thougths supported and turned into ideaology all based on assumptions and one ended retorical statements or generalizations

desert dude said:

If it happened to my son (I really do have a 17 year old son who is 6' tall and weighs 155, but that is where the similarities end), I would be heart broken and I might be out of my mind and demanding retribution, just like the Martins.

But the law is the law, read it for yourself, I am just stating the facts under the law. That is what the prosecutor has to work with.

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i'm sure you would be urging against an arrest and examination into the facts surrounding your son's death.

you would probably just accept the story of your son's killer at his mere word. i'm certain of this.

cannabineer said:

The trouble I have with this scenario is that Zimmerman bore none of the injuries that he claimed to have received in a scuffle, or that he would have received if at any point he were on the receiving end of a scuffle. That does not mean I am crowing "not possible", but I consider that less likely than the putative prosecution's scenario: that Z provoked and controlled all phases of the confrontation up until he shot Trayvon.
We know that Z left his truck, disregarded dispatch's firm suggestion to not follow the then still-unidentified Trayvon, and was then seen standing by/on Trayvon's body. We simply do not know what happened in between those knowns. But as Z chose to pursue, I consider it rather more likely that he drew and fired at a perceived threat that, in retrospect, didn't exist. After all, anyone with a file and a screwdriver can mod a Skittles box to full-auto ... cn

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Read the police report. His injuries are listed in that report: bleeding from nose, bleeding from the back of his head, shirt wet and grassy on the back. All entirely consistent with his account of the confrontation.

desert dude said:

Read the police report. His injuries are listed in that report: bleeding from nose, bleeding from the back of his head, shirt wet and grassy on the back. All entirely consistent with his account of the confrontation.

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and yet 34 minutes later, his jacket was clean, not a mark on the guy, he moved fluidly and alertly through the police station without showing any hint of pain or even discomfort whatsoever.

not to mention that mere seconds after the gunshot, witnesses saw him straddling martin's body, getting up without any problem whatsoever, walking over to the sidewalk, and looking worried but not injured.

he said it happened on the sidewalk, but every single witness without fail says it happened in the grass.

desert dude said:

Read the police report. His injuries are listed in that report: bleeding from nose, bleeding from the back of his head, shirt wet and grassy on the back. All entirely consistent with his account of the confrontation.

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UB has demonstrated that police reports coming out of Sanford are sometimes not what they could be. Since I am not privy to the collateral physical evidence, I am regarding the police report info as "suspect" unless/until corroborated externally, say by forensics or path. I'm not saying "the police report is garbage", that would be presumptuous. But just seeing that Z's head and his motion didn't mesh with the injuries you listed, I'm ... unconvinced either way, at this point. I am not convinced that a criminal case would be a slam-dunk conviction, what with the "reasonable doubt" provision, of which there's plenty to cover both sides. But there probably will be a civil case, and that will probably roast Z's chestnuts to a crisp. cn

so everytime two people get into it . . .its ok for one to shoot the other . . .. . . . . . . .

im not saying that a fight didnt happen


im saying zimmerman was the reason it happened to begin with and only because of his own mistake in confronting martin was there a confrontation . . . you dont get it do you

Zimmerman put himself there because he was stalking and persueing and then harassing Martins, Martins choice in the fight was one of reactive and defensive, even if he threw the first punch as he precieved Zimmerman as a threat adn he was . . . .is it martin fault zimmerman cant fight . . . . .no

but it is zimmermans choice to put both of them in tat situation and for no legal or real reason other than profiling and yes racial profiling and he aint a cop life isnt TV mr Z is not trained in anything other than being a sponge and a liability

cannabineer said:

UB has demonstrated that police reports coming out of Sanford are sometimes not what they could be. Since I am not privy to the collateral physical evidence, I am regarding the police report info as "suspect" unless/until corroborated externally, say by forensics or path. I'm not saying "the police report is garbage", that would be presumptuous. But just seeing that Z's head and his motion didn't mesh with the injuries you listed, I'm ... unconvinced either way, at this point. I am not convinced that a criminal case would be a slam-dunk conviction, what with the "reasonable doubt" provision, of which there's plenty to cover both sides. But there probably will be a civil case, and that will probably roast Z's chestnuts to a crisp. cn

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let's not forget that the cop who was in charge of the crime scene was the same guy who did diddly shit when a son of the force decked a homeless black man from behind a year or so earlier, nearly killing him.

let's also not forget that about 5 or so years back, another son of the force got away with "self defense" after shooting a black teen in the back, killing him.

let's also not forget about police report after police report where the value of cannabis is listed at what we all know is complete bullshit. they got a pound? well, that's $10,000 worth of drugs off the streets.

yet desert douche is putting his full faith and conviction behind these police reports, the same one that lists martin's name and DOB as he is tagged at the morgue as john doe.

seems legit.

Samwell Seed Well said:

so everytime two people get into it . . .its ok for one to shoot the other . . .. . . . . . . .

im not saying that a fight didnt happen


im saying zimmerman was the reason it happened to begin with and only because of his own mistake in confronting martin was there a confrontation . . . you dont get it do you

Zimmerman put himself there because he was stalking and perusing and then harassing Martins choice in the fight was one of reactive and defensive . . . .is it martin fault zimmerman cant fight . . . . .no

but it is zimmermans choice to put both of them in tat situation and for no legal or real reason other than profiling and yes racial profiling and he aint a cop life isnt TV mr Z is not trained in anything other than being a sponge and a liability

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given zimmerman's long history of assault, violence, aggression, losing his temper, drinking, "snapping" and so on and so forth, it is more than likely that zimmerman started that fight, too.

especially when we take into account the testimony of martin's girlfriend, who was talking to him on the phone just 1 minute before the police arrived.

if there was a fight, it happened in the grass, it lasted less than a minute, and zimmerman walked away basically uninjured. all facts.

its really a lesson in denial what people can convince themselves of with the absence of a real explanation vs a rendition of a corrupt individual and a corrupt police force with a history of bending the truth and breaking the law


i base my opinions on morals and loose facts

desert guy would change his tune tomorrow if the papers told him too

sheep

cannabineer said:

UB has demonstrated that police reports coming out of Sanford are sometimes not what they could be. Since I am not privy to the collateral physical evidence, I am regarding the police report info as "suspect" unless/until corroborated externally, say by forensics or path. I'm not saying "the police report is garbage", that would be presumptuous. But just seeing that Z's head and his motion didn't mesh with the injuries you listed, I'm ... unconvinced either way, at this point. I am not convinced that a criminal case would be a slam-dunk conviction, what with the "reasonable doubt" provision, of which there's plenty to cover both sides. But there probably will be a civil case, and that will probably roast Z's chestnuts to a crisp. cn

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Nope. Read Florida's SYG law. Zimmer is immune from criminal prosecution AND civil suit if he is covered by SYG. There is literally nothing that can be done to Zimmer if he is covered by SYG.

Frankly, I don't understand your reluctance regarding the police report. What possible motive would the police officer have that would cause him to lie in this case? In any case, if it goes to trial it will be a jury that decides and my guess is that jury will not have your doubts about the police officer's report.

desert dude said:

What possible motive would the police officer have that would cause him to lie in this case?

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a retired judge from the town next door who is trying to get his son on the force, possibly.

i bet you think that cops are the most honest bunch of guys there could ever be.

you poor, sad, individual.