Thousands surround US air base to protest the use of drones (POLL)

Do you believe the US drone program should be outlawed?

  • Yes, I think it should be outlawed

    Votes: 7 41.2%

  • No, I do not think it should be outlawed

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • Total voters
    17
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Over 5,000 Germans formed a 5.5-mile human chain to surround the base


According to the NYT, the kill ratio between civilian casualties and actual terrorist suspects in the US drone program is 10:1

Do you believe the program should be outlawed internationally due to such high civilian casualties? If we end the program, that will unavoidably mean that more American soldiers will be put in harms way to accomplish the missions deemed necessary absent the drone program. Is that worth it, and how can you quantify that?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Flaming Pie said:
Yes. Finally you come around and see it.

Obama was not merciful by swapping out troops for drones.
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so obama was the one who started using drones then? told the military to get rid of troops and invent something else instead?

is that the line of bullshit you want to try to sell here?
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I don't want to see war.

If it has to happen, if someone needs taken out it should be with actual human involvement.

I know that the people that fly drones know that they are killing people but there has to be a disconnect by doing it on a screen.

I don't want to see our troops in harms way but it is what they sign up for.

If killing needs done there should be actual eyes on. It may provide that gut check that says this is wrong.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
I don't want to see war.

If it has to happen, if someone needs taken out it should be with actual human involvement.

I know that the people that fly drones know that they are killing people but there has to be a disconnect by doing it on a screen.

I don't want to see our troops in harms way but it is what they sign up for.

If killing needs done there should be actual eyes on. It may provide that gut check that says this is wrong.
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The problem isn't with the soldier who's ordered to fly the drones, it's with military planners and their corrupt political masters who see them as 'clean' and 'surgical', as if there are no consequences.

The blowback is very costly, even if it isn't measured in dollar costs to the defense industry shareholder's bottom line.

Interesting also that it was Germans who protested- apparently American citizens, in whose name they're ostensibly being sent, can't be brought to care.
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The problem isn't with the soldier who's ordered to fly the drones, it's with military planners and their corrupt political masters who see them as 'clean' and 'surgical', as if there are no consequences.

The blowback is very costly, even if it isn't measured in dollar costs to the defense industry shareholder's bottom line.

Interesting also that it was Germans who protested- apparently American citizens, in whose name they're ostensibly being sent, can't be brought to care.
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I agree.

The whole concept of drone makes it seem surgical.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......:roll:
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DIFFERENT SITUATION; We were at war and that was a war zone. Declared hostilities. And fuck yeah, in those situations I'm all for the unfair advantage!

That's a dramatically different situation than flying over a foreign country we're at peace and fucking supposed to be allied with and murdering their citizens from the sky without trial, notification- or even verification that the dots on the ground are even the right targets.

Y'all had rules of engagement. Turns out there are rules of engagement in peacetime too, and we're doing a straight shitty job of being friends, and fast getting worse at it.
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
DIFFERENT SITUATION; We were at war and that was a war zone. Declared hostilities. And fuck yeah, in those situations I'm all for the unfair advantage!

That's a dramatically different situation than flying over a foreign country we're at peace and fucking supposed to be allied with and murdering their citizens from the sky without trial, notification- or even verification that the dots on the ground are even the right targets.

Y'all had rules of engagement. Turns out there are rules of engagement in peacetime too, and we're doing a straight shitty job of being friends, and fast getting worse at it.
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soldiers on the ground with machine guns & hand grenades aren't any more discriminant than a drone. Your just risking many more lives. If we don't have the stomach for drones, please don't send in troops.....
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
soldiers on the ground with machine guns & hand grenades aren't any more discriminant than a drone. Your just risking many more lives. If we don't have the stomach for drones, please don't send in troops.....
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I think we're in a lot more agreement than it may at first appear. If I may summarize your concerns, you're talking about supporting troops on the ground with remotely piloted aerial assets. I've got zero qualms with that.

But that isn't the situation that accurately describes all, or even most drone missions. Most are intelligence oriented, like surveillance, tracking people, materiel and assets, sometimes Sig Int. Again, it's a dangerous world and I've got no problem with using drones to keep an eye on shit.

However, it's when these black missions start firing missiles at homes of civilian foreign nationals, in countries with whom we are at peace, that I believe American foreign policy has departed from any semblance of justifiability or even common sense.

Anyone who starts spewing about ends justifying means should also take a nice long walk thru a live fire zone, because as surely as we do unto others, they'll be willing and eventually able to do it back.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The problem isn't with the soldier who's ordered to fly the drones, it's with military planners and their corrupt political masters who see them as 'clean' and 'surgical', as if there are no consequences.

The blowback is very costly, even if it isn't measured in dollar costs to the defense industry shareholder's bottom line.

Interesting also that it was Germans who protested- apparently American citizens, in whose name they're ostensibly being sent, can't be brought to care.
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The problem begins with the idea that by following orders we can somehow absolve ourselves of personal responsibility for carrying out that order.

Soldiers, cops and much of the human livestock are taught obedience to an order is a higher value than obedience to their conscience. Coincidentally so are children who are bombarded with inane rules via government schools indoctrination policies.

Two things you might want to check out.

The Milgram Experiment

The Prussian School System / John Taylor Gatto
 
OddBall1st

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Over 5,000 Germans formed a 5.5-mile human chain to surround the base


According to the NYT, the kill ratio between civilian casualties and actual terrorist suspects in the US drone program is 10:1

Do you believe the program should be outlawed internationally due to such high civilian casualties? If we end the program, that will unavoidably mean that more American soldiers will be put in harms way to accomplish the missions deemed necessary absent the drone program. Is that worth it, and how can you quantify that?
Click to expand...

Yes. The use of Military drones where initially created to work in conjunction with troops and aircraft. They were not adopted to carry a payload. Now they are weaponized and can carry a payload.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The problem isn't the kind of weapon used.

The problem is the kind of force used.

There are TWO kinds of force. Offensive and defensive.

One is justifiable and one is not.

Most governments arise and maintain their power using the kind that isn't justifiable, thus the people they kill are most likely murder victims.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Over 5,000 Germans formed a 5.5-mile human chain to surround the base


According to the NYT, the kill ratio between civilian casualties and actual terrorist suspects in the US drone program is 10:1

Do you believe the program should be outlawed internationally due to such high civilian casualties? If we end the program, that will unavoidably mean that more American soldiers will be put in harms way to accomplish the missions deemed necessary absent the drone program. Is that worth it, and how can you quantify that?
Click to expand...
How many boots on the ground are killed as a result of using drones?

Considering we're dragged into manufactured wars, this is one way we preserve our American human capital.

All apologies to the country we invade.

All's fair in love and war.

I vote yea.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
The poll question is again too broad to be useful.

I want the military to have every option at their disposal including any drones they want. I object to Obama's drone war based on the fact that there is no check on who is getting blown up, no due process, etc.

If we got out of the middle east we would not be droning people... This is a buracratic problem, not a military one.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
How many boots on the ground are killed as a result of using drones?

Considering we're dragged into manufactured wars, this is one way we preserve our American human capital.

All apologies to the country we invade.

All's fair in love and war.

I vote yea.
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NLXSK1 said:
The poll question is again too broad to be useful.

I want the military to have every option at their disposal including any drones they want. I object to Obama's drone war based on the fact that there is no check on who is getting blown up, no due process, etc.

If we got out of the middle east we would not be droning people... This is a buracratic problem, not a military one.
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Agreed. It's not a good idea to terrorize people by militarily occupying the world.
 
bluntmassa1

bluntmassa1

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......:roll:
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I wish we never went to war with Vietnam personally it was pointless and many Americans died.

But drones take no discipline to use which is why we are using them in about 7 different countries meanwhile we would never fight 7 different countries in a real war. Sure if it was WW3 go ahead send in the drones but no. We are creating more terrorists with every single civilian we kill. If it was my family who got killed by a US drone I would be a terrorist too really even if it just hit close to home.
 
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