Thousands surround US air base to protest the use of drones (POLL)

[Padawanbater2]

Over 5,000 Germans formed a 5.5-mile human chain to surround the base


According to the NYT, the kill ratio between civilian casualties and actual terrorist suspects in the US drone program is 10:1

Do you believe the program should be outlawed internationally due to such high civilian casualties? If we end the program, that will unavoidably mean that more American soldiers will be put in harms way to accomplish the missions deemed necessary absent the drone program. Is that worth it, and how can you quantify that?

 

[Flaming Pie]

Yes. Finally you come around and see it.

Obama was not merciful by swapping out troops for drones.

 

[UncleBuck]

Yes. Finally you come around and see it.

Obama was not merciful by swapping out troops for drones.

so obama was the one who started using drones then? told the military to get rid of troops and invent something else instead?

is that the line of bullshit you want to try to sell here?

 

[whitebb2727]

I don't want to see war.

If it has to happen, if someone needs taken out it should be with actual human involvement.

I know that the people that fly drones know that they are killing people but there has to be a disconnect by doing it on a screen.

I don't want to see our troops in harms way but it is what they sign up for.

If killing needs done there should be actual eyes on. It may provide that gut check that says this is wrong.

 

[ttystikk]

I don't want to see war.

If it has to happen, if someone needs taken out it should be with actual human involvement.

I know that the people that fly drones know that they are killing people but there has to be a disconnect by doing it on a screen.

I don't want to see our troops in harms way but it is what they sign up for.

If killing needs done there should be actual eyes on. It may provide that gut check that says this is wrong.

The problem isn't with the soldier who's ordered to fly the drones, it's with military planners and their corrupt political masters who see them as 'clean' and 'surgical', as if there are no consequences.

The blowback is very costly, even if it isn't measured in dollar costs to the defense industry shareholder's bottom line.

Interesting also that it was Germans who protested- apparently American citizens, in whose name they're ostensibly being sent, can't be brought to care.

 

[whitebb2727]

The problem isn't with the soldier who's ordered to fly the drones, it's with military planners and their corrupt political masters who see them as 'clean' and 'surgical', as if there are no consequences.

The blowback is very costly, even if it isn't measured in dollar costs to the defense industry shareholder's bottom line.

Interesting also that it was Germans who protested- apparently American citizens, in whose name they're ostensibly being sent, can't be brought to care.

I agree.

The whole concept of drone makes it seem surgical.

 

[doublejj]

I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......

 

[whitebb2727]

I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......

I'm sure you're right.

 

[ttystikk]

I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......

DIFFERENT SITUATION; We were at war and that was a war zone. Declared hostilities. And fuck yeah, in those situations I'm all for the unfair advantage!

That's a dramatically different situation than flying over a foreign country we're at peace and fucking supposed to be allied with and murdering their citizens from the sky without trial, notification- or even verification that the dots on the ground are even the right targets.

Y'all had rules of engagement. Turns out there are rules of engagement in peacetime too, and we're doing a straight shitty job of being friends, and fast getting worse at it.

 

[doublejj]

DIFFERENT SITUATION; We were at war and that was a war zone. Declared hostilities. And fuck yeah, in those situations I'm all for the unfair advantage!

That's a dramatically different situation than flying over a foreign country we're at peace and fucking supposed to be allied with and murdering their citizens from the sky without trial, notification- or even verification that the dots on the ground are even the right targets.

Y'all had rules of engagement. Turns out there are rules of engagement in peacetime too, and we're doing a straight shitty job of being friends, and fast getting worse at it.

soldiers on the ground with machine guns & hand grenades aren't any more discriminant than a drone. Your just risking many more lives. If we don't have the stomach for drones, please don't send in troops.....

 

[ttystikk]

soldiers on the ground with machine guns & hand grenades aren't any more discriminant than a drone. Your just risking many more lives. If we don't have the stomach for drones, please don't send in troops.....

I think we're in a lot more agreement than it may at first appear. If I may summarize your concerns, you're talking about supporting troops on the ground with remotely piloted aerial assets. I've got zero qualms with that.

But that isn't the situation that accurately describes all, or even most drone missions. Most are intelligence oriented, like surveillance, tracking people, materiel and assets, sometimes Sig Int. Again, it's a dangerous world and I've got no problem with using drones to keep an eye on shit.

However, it's when these black missions start firing missiles at homes of civilian foreign nationals, in countries with whom we are at peace, that I believe American foreign policy has departed from any semblance of justifiability or even common sense.

Anyone who starts spewing about ends justifying means should also take a nice long walk thru a live fire zone, because as surely as we do unto others, they'll be willing and eventually able to do it back.

 

[Rob Roy]

I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......

I sure wish you never got brought to Viet Nam in the first place and I'm glad you made it back.

 

[Rob Roy]

The problem isn't with the soldier who's ordered to fly the drones, it's with military planners and their corrupt political masters who see them as 'clean' and 'surgical', as if there are no consequences.

The blowback is very costly, even if it isn't measured in dollar costs to the defense industry shareholder's bottom line.

Interesting also that it was Germans who protested- apparently American citizens, in whose name they're ostensibly being sent, can't be brought to care.

The problem begins with the idea that by following orders we can somehow absolve ourselves of personal responsibility for carrying out that order.

Soldiers, cops and much of the human livestock are taught obedience to an order is a higher value than obedience to their conscience. Coincidentally so are children who are bombarded with inane rules via government schools indoctrination policies.

Two things you might want to check out.

The Milgram Experiment

The Prussian School System / John Taylor Gatto

 

[OddBall1st]

Over 5,000 Germans formed a 5.5-mile human chain to surround the base


According to the NYT, the kill ratio between civilian casualties and actual terrorist suspects in the US drone program is 10:1

Do you believe the program should be outlawed internationally due to such high civilian casualties? If we end the program, that will unavoidably mean that more American soldiers will be put in harms way to accomplish the missions deemed necessary absent the drone program. Is that worth it, and how can you quantify that?

Yes. The use of Military drones where initially created to work in conjunction with troops and aircraft. They were not adopted to carry a payload. Now they are weaponized and can carry a payload.

 

[Rob Roy]

The problem isn't the kind of weapon used.

The problem is the kind of force used.

There are TWO kinds of force. Offensive and defensive.

One is justifiable and one is not.

Most governments arise and maintain their power using the kind that isn't justifiable, thus the people they kill are most likely murder victims.

 

[schuylaar]

Over 5,000 Germans formed a 5.5-mile human chain to surround the base


According to the NYT, the kill ratio between civilian casualties and actual terrorist suspects in the US drone program is 10:1

Do you believe the program should be outlawed internationally due to such high civilian casualties? If we end the program, that will unavoidably mean that more American soldiers will be put in harms way to accomplish the missions deemed necessary absent the drone program. Is that worth it, and how can you quantify that?

How many boots on the ground are killed as a result of using drones?

Considering we're dragged into manufactured wars, this is one way we preserve our American human capital.

All apologies to the country we invade.

All's fair in love and war.

I vote yea.

 

[NLXSK1]

The poll question is again too broad to be useful.

I want the military to have every option at their disposal including any drones they want. I object to Obama's drone war based on the fact that there is no check on who is getting blown up, no due process, etc.

If we got out of the middle east we would not be droning people... This is a buracratic problem, not a military one.

 

[Rob Roy]

How many boots on the ground are killed as a result of using drones?

Considering we're dragged into manufactured wars, this is one way we preserve our American human capital.

All apologies to the country we invade.

All's fair in love and war.

I vote yea.

The poll question is again too broad to be useful.

I want the military to have every option at their disposal including any drones they want. I object to Obama's drone war based on the fact that there is no check on who is getting blown up, no due process, etc.

If we got out of the middle east we would not be droning people... This is a buracratic problem, not a military one.

Agreed. It's not a good idea to terrorize people by militarily occupying the world.

 

[bluntmassa1]

I sure wish we had drones in Vietnam.........you guy's need to walk a few jungle patrols to come to appreciate a simple drone......

I wish we never went to war with Vietnam personally it was pointless and many Americans died.

But drones take no discipline to use which is why we are using them in about 7 different countries meanwhile we would never fight 7 different countries in a real war. Sure if it was WW3 go ahead send in the drones but no. We are creating more terrorists with every single civilian we kill. If it was my family who got killed by a US drone I would be a terrorist too really even if it just hit close to home.

 

[bluntmassa1]

soldiers on the ground with machine guns & hand grenades aren't any more discriminant than a drone. Your just risking many more lives. If we don't have the stomach for drones, please don't send in troops.....

True, but it should go both ways if the war isn't important enough to send troops don't send drones.