There's a rush on guns like hand sanitizer.

Rottedroots

Rottedroots

Well-Known Member
So get yours now! Ammunition is flying off the shelves and every kind of weapon is flying out the door as well. This is not the best time to push for gun control.
I'm not a prepper but I do have firearms. When things get really tough I am going to kill you and loot and pillage every food source or any other resource you might have tucked away. The police won't help you so you'd better help yourselves. Reloaded 500 9mm rounds of 124g Berry's Bullets in front of 4.7 grains of W231 last night.
I'm just kidding. I'm sure the police and fire departments are going to be there when you need them and things are not going to deteriorate anywhere near that badly so relax. Gotta go now. I have some things to do.
How long until the barrage of name calling begins?
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
Rottedroots said:
So get yours now! Ammunition is flying off the shelves and every kind of weapon is flying out the door as well. This is not the best time to push for gun control.
I'm not a prepper but I do have firearms. When things get really tough I am going to kill you and loot and pillage every food source or any other resource you might have tucked away. The police won't help you so you'd better help yourselves. Reloaded 500 9mm rounds of 124g Berry's Bullets in front of 4.7 grains of W231 last night.
I'm just kidding. I'm sure the police and fire departments are going to be there when you need them and things are not going to deteriorate anywhere near that badly so relax. Gotta go now. I have some things to do.
How long until the barrage of name calling begins?
Click to expand...
My dogs may have a say in this :o
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Rottedroots said:
So get yours now! Ammunition is flying off the shelves and every kind of weapon is flying out the door as well. This is not the best time to push for gun control.
I'm not a prepper but I do have firearms. When things get really tough I am going to kill you and loot and pillage every food source or any other resource you might have tucked away. The police won't help you so you'd better help yourselves. Reloaded 500 9mm rounds of 124g Berry's Bullets in front of 4.7 grains of W231 last night.
I'm just kidding. I'm sure the police and fire departments are going to be there when you need them and things are not going to deteriorate anywhere near that badly so relax. Gotta go now. I have some things to do.
How long until the barrage of name calling begins?
Click to expand...
It’s 43 times more likely that you’ll just kill your self

or your wife or your kid or your kid will kill him self or his sibling
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Rottedroots said:
So get yours now! Ammunition is flying off the shelves and every kind of weapon is flying out the door as well. This is not the best time to push for gun control.
I'm not a prepper but I do have firearms. When things get really tough I am going to kill you and loot and pillage every food source or any other resource you might have tucked away. The police won't help you so you'd better help yourselves. Reloaded 500 9mm rounds of 124g Berry's Bullets in front of 4.7 grains of W231 last night.
I'm just kidding. I'm sure the police and fire departments are going to be there when you need them and things are not going to deteriorate anywhere near that badly so relax. Gotta go now. I have some things to do.
How long until the barrage of name calling begins?
Click to expand...
This thread was not helpful

rating: 1 (out of 10 with ten being best result)

Would not recommend this therad to friends or family.
 
DwayneWayne

DwayneWayne

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
It’s 43 times more likely that you’ll just kill your self

or your wife or your kid or your kid will kill him self or his sibling
Click to expand...

Why are spamming this debunked Kellerman study?

* Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder" To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby. The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count. Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3] Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold. Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2] Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity. Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse . From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes. Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.

Should we just call you UncleBunk now?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
DwayneWayne said:
Why are spamming this debunked Kellerman study?

* Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder" To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby. The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count. Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3] Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold. Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2] Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity. Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse . From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes. Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.

Should we just call you UncleBunk now?
Click to expand...
too cowardly to even cite your source

your ignore button is broken again
 
DwayneWayne

DwayneWayne

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
too cowardly to even cite your source

your ignore button is broken again
Click to expand...
[1] Leape LL. "Error in Medicine." JAMA. 1994; 272(23): 1851-57. Back to the top
[2] Suter E. "Guns in the Medical Literature - A Failure of Peer Review." Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia. March 1994; 83: 133-48. Back to the top
[3] Kleck G. Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. New York: Aldine de Gruyter. 1991. Back to the top
[4] Suter EA, Waters WC, Murray GB, et al. "Violence in America - Effective Solutions." Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia. Spring 1995, forthcoming. Back to the top
[5] Fingerhut LA, Ingram DD, Feldman JJ. "Firearm Homicide Among Black Teenage Males in Metropolitan Counties: Comparison of Death Rates in Two Periods, 1983 through 1985 and 1987 through 1989." JAMA. 1992; 267:3054-8. Back to the top
[6] Hammett M, Powell KE, O?Carroll PW, Clanton ST. "Homicide Surveillance - United States, 1987 through 1989." MMWR. 41/SS-3. May 29,1992. Back to the top
[7] FBI. Uniform Crime Reports Crime in the United States 1991. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1992 Back to the top
[8] National Safety Council. Accident Facts 1992. Chicago: National Safety Council. 1993. Back to the top
[9] Webster D, Chaulk, Teret S, and Wintemute G. "Reducing Firearm Injuries." Issues in Science and Technology. Spring 1991: 73-9. Back to the top
[10] Christoffel KK. "Towards Reducing Pediatric Injuries From Firearms: Charting a Legislative and Regulatory Course." Pediatrics. 1992; 88:294-300. Back to the top
[11] Federal Bureau of Investigation, US Department of Justice. Uniform Crime Reports Crime in the United States 1993. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1994. Table 5. Back to the top
[12] Dawson JB and Lantern PA, US Bureau of Justice Statistics statisticians. "Murder in Families." Washington DC: Bureau of Justice Statistics, US Department of Justice. 1994. p. 5, Table 7. Back to the top
[13] US Bureau of Justice Statistics. "Murder in Large Urban Counties, 1988." Washington DC: US Department of Justice. 1993. Back to the top
[14] Narloch R. Criminal Homicide in California. Sacramento CA: California Bureau of Criminal Statistics. 1973. pp 53-4. Back to the top
[15] Mulvihill D et al. Crimes of Violence: Report of the Task Force on Individual Acts of Violence." Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1969. p 532. Back to the top
[16] Wheeler ED and Baron SA. Violence in Our Schools, Hospitals and Public Places: A Prevention and Management Guide.? Ventura CA: Pathfinder. 1993. Back to the top
[17] Kellermann AL. and Reay DT. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearms-Related Deaths in the Home.? N Engl J. Med 1986. 314: 1557-60. Back to the top
[18] Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home.? N Engl J Med. 1993; 329(15): 1084-91. Back to the top
[19] Japenga A. "Gun Crazy.? San Francisco Examiner. This World supplement. April 3, 1994. p. 7-13 at 11. Back to the top
[20] Max W and Rice DP. "Shooting in the Dark: Estimating the Cost of Firearm Injuries.? Health Affairs. 1993; 12(4): 171-85. Back to the top
[21] Nieto M, Dunstan R, and Koehler GA. "Firearm-Related Violence in California: Incidence and Economic Costs.? Sacramento CA: California Research Bureau, California State Library. October 1994. Back to the top
[22] McGonigal MD, Cole J, Schwab W, Kauder DR, Rotondo MF, and Angood PB. "Urban Firearms Deaths: A Five-Year Perspective.? J Trauma. 1993; 35(4): 532-36. Back to the top
[23] Hutson HR, Anglin D, and Pratss MJ. "Adolescents and Children Injured or Killed in Drive-By Shootings in Los Angeles.? N Engl J Med. 1994; 330: 324-27. Back to the top
[24] Zedlewski EW. Making Confinement Decisions - Research in Brief. Washington DC: National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice. July 1987. Back to the top
[25] United Press. "China seizes 120,000 guns.? October 21, 1994. Back to the top
[26] Cramer C and Kopel D. Concealed Handgun Permits for Licensed Trained Citizens: A Policy that is Saving Lives. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper #14-93. 1993. Back to the top
[27] Cramer C and Kopel D. "Shall Issue?: The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994. Back to the top
[28] Aborn R, President of Handgun Control Inc. Letter to the Editor. Washington Post. September 30, 1994. Back to the top
[29] Thomson Charles, Associate Director for Law Enf Back to the top
[30] Halbrook SP. "Another Look at the Brady Law." Washington Post. October 8, 1994. p A-18. Back to the top
[31] Howlett D. "Jury Still Out on Success of the Brady Law." USA Today. December 28, 1994. p A-2. Back to the top
[32] Harris J, Assistant Attorney General, US Department of Justice. Statement to the Subcommittee on Crime and Criminal Justice, Committee on the Judiciary, US Gouse of Representatives concerning Federal Firearms Prosecutions. September 20, 1994. Back to the top
[33] Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, US Department of the Treasury. ATF News.. Washington DC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. FY-93-38. 1993. Back to the top
[34] Wright JD and Rossi PH. Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms. Hawthorne, NY: Aldine de Gruyter. 1986. Back to the top
[35] Suter EA, Morgan RE, Cottrol RJ, et al. "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms - A Primer for Physicians." Kansas Journal of Law & Public Policy. Spring 1995, forthcoming. Back to the top
[36] Johnson NJ. "Beyond the Second Amendment: An Individual Right to Arms Viewed through the Ninth Amendment." Rutgers Law Journal. Fall 1992; 24 (1): 1-81. Back to the top
[37] Amar AR. "The Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment." Yale Law Journal. 1992; 101: 1193-1284.; Winter 1992; 9: 87-104.; Back to the top [38] Kates D. "The Second Amendment and the Ideology of Self-Protection." Constitutional Commentary. Winter 1992; 9: 87-104. Back to the top
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Rottedroots said:
So get yours now! Ammunition is flying off the shelves and every kind of weapon is flying out the door as well. This is not the best time to push for gun control.
I'm not a prepper but I do have firearms. When things get really tough I am going to kill you and loot and pillage every food source or any other resource you might have tucked away. The police won't help you so you'd better help yourselves. Reloaded 500 9mm rounds of 124g Berry's Bullets in front of 4.7 grains of W231 last night.
I'm just kidding. I'm sure the police and fire departments are going to be there when you need them and things are not going to deteriorate anywhere near that badly so relax. Gotta go now. I have some things to do.
How long until the barrage of name calling begins?
Click to expand...
yes, yes..you..are.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
too cowardly to even cite your source

your ignore button is broken again
Click to expand...
Look it thinks citing the source is posting a bunch of random citing and no link to where he is copy/pasting this from.

Also I enjoyed it's copy/paste that said the gun study was 'debunked' and went on to say it was because it didn't factor in how many lives guns saved, a unknowable number that would be impossible to actually factor in.

Also wasn't there something about Federal Funding being stripped from universities that studied anything gun related? Was that done after the study you use, I am not sure how that went, just that someone did a accurate gun study and the Republicans congress immediately cut federal funding by the exact amount of that study.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
DwayneWayne said:
[1] Leape LL. "Error in Medicine." JAMA. 1994; 272(23): 1851-57. Back to the top
[2] Suter E. "Guns in the Medical Literature - A Failure of Peer Review." Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia. March 1994; 83: 133-48. Back to the top
[3] Kleck G. Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America. New York: Aldine de Gruyter. 1991. Back to the top
[4] Suter EA, Waters WC, Murray GB, et al. "Violence in America - Effective Solutions." Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia. Spring 1995, forthcoming. Back to the top
[5] Fingerhut LA, Ingram DD, Feldman JJ. "Firearm Homicide Among Black Teenage Males in Metropolitan Counties: Comparison of Death Rates in Two Periods, 1983 through 1985 and 1987 through 1989." JAMA. 1992; 267:3054-8. Back to the top
[6] Hammett M, Powell KE, O?Carroll PW, Clanton ST. "Homicide Surveillance - United States, 1987 through 1989." MMWR. 41/SS-3. May 29,1992. Back to the top
[7] FBI. Uniform Crime Reports Crime in the United States 1991. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1992 Back to the top
[8] National Safety Council. Accident Facts 1992. Chicago: National Safety Council. 1993. Back to the top
[9] Webster D, Chaulk, Teret S, and Wintemute G. "Reducing Firearm Injuries." Issues in Science and Technology. Spring 1991: 73-9. Back to the top
[10] Christoffel KK. "Towards Reducing Pediatric Injuries From Firearms: Charting a Legislative and Regulatory Course." Pediatrics. 1992; 88:294-300. Back to the top
[11] Federal Bureau of Investigation, US Department of Justice. Uniform Crime Reports Crime in the United States 1993. Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1994. Table 5. Back to the top
[12] Dawson JB and Lantern PA, US Bureau of Justice Statistics statisticians. "Murder in Families." Washington DC: Bureau of Justice Statistics, US Department of Justice. 1994. p. 5, Table 7. Back to the top
[13] US Bureau of Justice Statistics. "Murder in Large Urban Counties, 1988." Washington DC: US Department of Justice. 1993. Back to the top
[14] Narloch R. Criminal Homicide in California. Sacramento CA: California Bureau of Criminal Statistics. 1973. pp 53-4. Back to the top
[15] Mulvihill D et al. Crimes of Violence: Report of the Task Force on Individual Acts of Violence." Washington DC: US Government Printing Office. 1969. p 532. Back to the top
[16] Wheeler ED and Baron SA. Violence in Our Schools, Hospitals and Public Places: A Prevention and Management Guide.? Ventura CA: Pathfinder. 1993. Back to the top
[17] Kellermann AL. and Reay DT. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearms-Related Deaths in the Home.? N Engl J. Med 1986. 314: 1557-60. Back to the top
[18] Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home.? N Engl J Med. 1993; 329(15): 1084-91. Back to the top
[19] Japenga A. "Gun Crazy.? San Francisco Examiner. This World supplement. April 3, 1994. p. 7-13 at 11. Back to the top
[20] Max W and Rice DP. "Shooting in the Dark: Estimating the Cost of Firearm Injuries.? Health Affairs. 1993; 12(4): 171-85. Back to the top
[21] Nieto M, Dunstan R, and Koehler GA. "Firearm-Related Violence in California: Incidence and Economic Costs.? Sacramento CA: California Research Bureau, California State Library. October 1994. Back to the top
[22] McGonigal MD, Cole J, Schwab W, Kauder DR, Rotondo MF, and Angood PB. "Urban Firearms Deaths: A Five-Year Perspective.? J Trauma. 1993; 35(4): 532-36. Back to the top
[23] Hutson HR, Anglin D, and Pratss MJ. "Adolescents and Children Injured or Killed in Drive-By Shootings in Los Angeles.? N Engl J Med. 1994; 330: 324-27. Back to the top
[24] Zedlewski EW. Making Confinement Decisions - Research in Brief. Washington DC: National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice. July 1987. Back to the top
[25] United Press. "China seizes 120,000 guns.? October 21, 1994. Back to the top
[26] Cramer C and Kopel D. Concealed Handgun Permits for Licensed Trained Citizens: A Policy that is Saving Lives. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper #14-93. 1993. Back to the top
[27] Cramer C and Kopel D. "Shall Issue?: The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws. Golden CO: Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994. Back to the top
[28] Aborn R, President of Handgun Control Inc. Letter to the Editor. Washington Post. September 30, 1994. Back to the top
[29] Thomson Charles, Associate Director for Law Enf Back to the top
[30] Halbrook SP. "Another Look at the Brady Law." Washington Post. October 8, 1994. p A-18. Back to the top
[31] Howlett D. "Jury Still Out on Success of the Brady Law." USA Today. December 28, 1994. p A-2. Back to the top
[32] Harris J, Assistant Attorney General, US Department of Justice. Statement to the Subcommittee on Crime and Criminal Justice, Committee on the Judiciary, US Gouse of Representatives concerning Federal Firearms Prosecutions. September 20, 1994. Back to the top
[33] Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, US Department of the Treasury. ATF News.. Washington DC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. FY-93-38. 1993. Back to the top
[34] Wright JD and Rossi PH. Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms. Hawthorne, NY: Aldine de Gruyter. 1986. Back to the top
[35] Suter EA, Morgan RE, Cottrol RJ, et al. "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms - A Primer for Physicians." Kansas Journal of Law & Public Policy. Spring 1995, forthcoming. Back to the top
[36] Johnson NJ. "Beyond the Second Amendment: An Individual Right to Arms Viewed through the Ninth Amendment." Rutgers Law Journal. Fall 1992; 24 (1): 1-81. Back to the top
[37] Amar AR. "The Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment." Yale Law Journal. 1992; 101: 1193-1284.; Winter 1992; 9: 87-104.; Back to the top [38] Kates D. "The Second Amendment and the Ideology of Self-Protection." Constitutional Commentary. Winter 1992; 9: 87-104. Back to the top
Click to expand...
When you’re too embarrassed to cite your source, you’re losing
 
DwayneWayne

DwayneWayne

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Look it thinks citing the source is posting a bunch of random citing and no link to where he is copy/pasting this from.

Also I enjoyed it's copy/paste that said the gun study was 'debunked' and went on to say it was because it didn't factor in how many lives guns saved, a unknowable number that would be impossible to actually factor in.

Also wasn't there something about Federal Funding being stripped from universities that studied anything gun related? Was that done after the study you use, I am not sure how that went, just that someone did a accurate gun study and the Republicans congress immediately cut federal funding by the exact amount of that study.
Click to expand...
Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times"

Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home.? N Engl J Med. 1993; 329(15): 1084-91


Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection

Japenga A. "Gun Crazy.? San Francisco Examiner. This World supplement. April 3, 1994. p. 7-13 at 11


What part of this are yall having trouble with?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
DwayneWayne said:
Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times"

Kellermann AL, Rivara FP, Rushforth NB et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home.? N Engl J Med. 1993; 329(15): 1084-91


Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection

Japenga A. "Gun Crazy.? San Francisco Examiner. This World supplement. April 3, 1994. p. 7-13 at 11


What part of this are yall having trouble with?
Click to expand...
Is being almost three times more likely to kill your self or your family a good thing in your opinion?

you’ve still never cited where you got your copy and paste from lol
 
DwayneWayne

DwayneWayne

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Also I enjoyed it's copy/paste that said the gun study was 'debunked' and went on to say it was because it didn't factor in how many lives guns saved, a unknowable number that would be impossible to actually factor in.
Click to expand...
Low estimate is 80k and high is 2.5 million per year according to U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).
 
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