The US interests in the Nord Stream sabotages

Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
www.thenational.scot

German Chancellor stops Nord Stream 2 pipeline certification process

The comments come after Moscow ordered troops into two breakaway regions in the east of the country, allegedly to carry out ‘peacekeeping’…
www.thenational.scot www.thenational.scot

The German Chancellor has said that the certification of the Nord Stream 2 project cannot go ahead, following the latest Russian action in Ukraine.

The comments come after Moscow ordered troops into two breakaway regions in the east of the country, allegedly to carry out “peacekeeping” duties.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, speaking during a press conference with Irish Premier Micheal Martin, said that he had asked the German officials to halt the review process for the major gas pipeline project.

“The situation we find ourselves in today is a completely different one,” he said.

He said that this would mean no certification process was now possible for the controversial energy project.

“That sounds technical, but it is the necessary administrative step so there can be no certification of the pipeline and without this certification, Nord Stream 2 cannot begin operating.”

Mr Scholz said that the EU had been for several weeks preparing its response in the event of Russia escalation.

He said that over the course of the day, the EU would conclude sanctions and that the bloc could be trusted to act quickly.
“We have prepared for this moment very carefully,” he told reporters in Berlin.

“It won’t take very long, because we’re not starting from scratch,” the German Chancellor said.
He also praised the Ukrainian leadership for not letting the country be provoked into war.
At that meeting, the Irish Taoiseach urged Russian leader Vladimir Putin to de-escalate the situation.

“The announcement by President Putin yesterday that Russia was recognising the separatist regions in Ukraine crosses a line – it is a flagrant violation of international law and a breach of Ukraine’s sovereignty,” Mr Martin said.

“It breaches the fundamental principles of the UN Charter, under which all members must refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state.

“As I have said, together with our EU partners, Ireland stands in solidarity with Ukraine. The Chancellor and I discussed the EU’s response – which will be robust.
“I again, call on Russia to de-escalate, and to withdraw its military forces from the Ukrainian border.”

***

There you have it. NS2 was already down almost right at the start of the war. Ordered by highest authority.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Occam's razor says Putin did it...

Anyone is potentially a suspect, anyone with the means needs to be considered, well, at least the thought should be entertained. In combination with motive and risk-reward balance. The suggestion the US would risk their alliances, NATO, their position, their economy, under Biden, heck, even under Trump, while there is no major reward and no major effect is dumb and absurd. But then so are Putin sympathizers...

Sabotaging the pipelines fits the pattern of Russia's behavior, which is essentially trolling the gas supply in order to raise the prices and cause economic damage in a desperate attempt to create opposition to the West's support for the Ukrainians, hybrid warfware, AND in this case, to spark dumb threads like this, to cause doubt (not really doubt, brainfarts) in the minds of Putin sympathizers and fuel the anti-Americanists.

The pipeline was practically dead already, as in inactive. No nominations (requests/orders for supply) for quite some time now, mainly cause Russia forced Germany to fill their reserves more and sooner than in the previous 5 years in August, since August 10th to be precise, through other sources. Every time the gas prices for new customers in Europe stabilize or even drop, Russia messes with the supply. The Russian's claim it can't be them cause "why would we hurt our own business" is obviously and statistically bullshit. It causes no additional hurt to Russia, it did cause a short panic on the gas market, very short, cause it turns out it was dead already and likely would remain to be unused at least while Putin or similar is in power. Prices have dropped further, Putin failed again.

Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 19.38.38.png

It's not a shortage of gas that is causing the high prices and economic problems, it's instability and uncertainty in the market. Anticipating the effects of the, now for German too obvious, unreliable source of energy, Germany, and almost all of the rest of Russian gas users in Europe, is moving away from Russian gas. Germany doesn't actually need any more gas from NS1 and any none-Russian with some working brain cells would like it to stay down permanently. Gas from Russia is now only 20% of what it was on average over the past 5 years and is only going to drop further.

The increase of gas from LNG sources, Norway and Algeria is roughly the same as the decrease of Russian import, cause they filled the reserves more/faster and atm (colder than average) use roughly the same.
Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 17.37.05.png
Blowing up the lines was likely a desperate attempt to create instability while they still had the power to do so... or thought they had. It would have definitely had zero effect later on. Probably more factors I'm not aware of but yeah.. Occam's razor.

No short term impact because the line was practically unused already, out of the equation of gas market prices. Long term, on which several fantasies are based... pipelines can be fixed at a cost that's just a fraction of the value of the gas that could go through it. No major long term problem, one likely candidate that had a motive for short term problems, Putin.

DCN NL - cool stuff

Fogdog said:
Russia blew up that pipeline so that it would not be sued..
Click to expand...
and European countries expropriating anything from Gazprom and subsidiaries as compensation.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
www.thenational.scot

German Chancellor stops Nord Stream 2 pipeline certification process

The comments come after Moscow ordered troops into two breakaway regions in the east of the country, allegedly to carry out ‘peacekeeping’…
www.thenational.scot www.thenational.scot

The German Chancellor has said that the certification of the Nord Stream 2 project cannot go ahead, following the latest Russian action in Ukraine.

The comments come after Moscow ordered troops into two breakaway regions in the east of the country, allegedly to carry out “peacekeeping” duties.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, speaking during a press conference with Irish Premier Micheal Martin, said that he had asked the German officials to halt the review process for the major gas pipeline project.

“The situation we find ourselves in today is a completely different one,” he said.

He said that this would mean no certification process was now possible for the controversial energy project.

“That sounds technical, but it is the necessary administrative step so there can be no certification of the pipeline and without this certification, Nord Stream 2 cannot begin operating.”

Mr Scholz said that the EU had been for several weeks preparing its response in the event of Russia escalation.

He said that over the course of the day, the EU would conclude sanctions and that the bloc could be trusted to act quickly.
“We have prepared for this moment very carefully,” he told reporters in Berlin.

“It won’t take very long, because we’re not starting from scratch,” the German Chancellor said.
He also praised the Ukrainian leadership for not letting the country be provoked into war.
At that meeting, the Irish Taoiseach urged Russian leader Vladimir Putin to de-escalate the situation.

“The announcement by President Putin yesterday that Russia was recognising the separatist regions in Ukraine crosses a line – it is a flagrant violation of international law and a breach of Ukraine’s sovereignty,” Mr Martin said.

“It breaches the fundamental principles of the UN Charter, under which all members must refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state.

“As I have said, together with our EU partners, Ireland stands in solidarity with Ukraine. The Chancellor and I discussed the EU’s response – which will be robust.
“I again, call on Russia to de-escalate, and to withdraw its military forces from the Ukrainian border.”

***

There you have it. NS2 was already down almost right at the start of the war. Ordered by highest authority.
Click to expand...
I said earlier that "Germany" denied certifying NS2.

Doesn't change anything. Russia had a powerful motive to blow the pipelines due to what the Ukrainian propaganda organ said. It's all clear as mud.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Occam's razor says Putin did it...

Anyone is potentially a suspect, anyone with the means needs to be considered, well, at least the thought should be entertained. In combination with motive and risk-reward balance. The suggestion the US would risk their alliances, NATO, their position, their economy, under Biden, heck, even under Trump, while there is no major reward and no major effect is dumb and absurd. But then so are Putin sympathizers...

Sabotaging the pipelines fits the pattern of Russia's behavior, which is essentially trolling the gas supply in order to raise the prices and cause economic damage in a desperate attempt to create opposition to the West's support for the Ukrainians, hybrid warfware, AND in this case, to spark dumb threads like this, to cause doubt (not really doubt, brainfarts) in the minds of Putin sympathizers and fuel the anti-Americanists.

The pipeline was practically dead already, as in inactive. No nominations (requests/orders for supply) for quite some time now, mainly cause Russia forced Germany to fill their reserves more and sooner than in the previous 5 years in August, since August 10th to be precise, through other sources. Every time the gas prices for new customers in Europe stabilize or even drop, Russia messes with the supply. The Russian's claim it can't be them cause "why would we hurt our own business" is obviously and statistically bullshit. It causes no additional hurt to Russia, it did cause a short panic on the gas market, very short, cause it turns out it was dead already and likely would remain to be unused at least while Putin or similar is in power. Prices have dropped further, Putin failed again.

View attachment 5207218

It's not a shortage of gas that is causing the high prices and economic problems, it's instability and uncertainty in the market. Anticipating the effects of the, now for German too obvious, unreliable source of energy, Germany, and almost all of the rest of Russian gas users in Europe, is moving away from Russian gas. Germany doesn't actually need any more gas from NS1 and any none-Russian with some working brain cells would like it to stay down permanently. Gas from Russia is now only 20% of what it was on average over the past 5 years and is only going to drop further.

The increase of gas from LNG sources, Norway and Algeria is roughly the same as the decrease of Russian import, cause they filled the reserves more/faster and atm (colder than average) use roughly the same.
View attachment 5207180
Blowing up the lines was likely a desperate attempt to create instability while they still had the power to do so... or thought they had. It would have definitely had zero effect later on. Probably more factors I'm not aware of but yeah.. Occam's razor.

No short term impact because the line was practically unused already, out of the equation of gas market prices. Long term, on which several fantasies are based... pipelines can be fixed at a cost that's just a fraction of the value of the gas that could go through it. No major long term problem, one likely candidate that had a motive for short term problems, Putin.

DCN NL - cool stuff


and European countries expropriating anything from Gazprom and subsidiaries as compensation.
Click to expand...
Agree. Russia is probably behind the bombing of NS pipelines. Your reasons are good. Also agree the US isn't. Only people who believe the infotainer, Tucker Carlson, believe that.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Perhaps it is an artifact of translation. NS2 never entered into operation. You cannot stop something that did not start.
Click to expand...
They stopped the legal process in its tracks while it wasn't completed yet.
Weeks later it was finished but couldn't deliver ever as the proper paperwork wasn't signed here by the authorities, under order from politics/Chancellor
 
Dorian2

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
I'm loosely following along and found this to be interesting after reading the wiki posted by cannabineer. Let's just say I'm not too surprised considering the people involved.

From NS2 wiki.
In January 2019, the US ambassador in Germany, Richard Grenell, sent letters to companies involved in the construction of Nord Stream 2 urging them to stop working on the project and threatening them with the possibility of sanctions.
Click to expand...
From a quick search on who was involved.

Donald Trump has appointed the US ambassador to Germany, a combative loyalist, to his administration’s most senior intelligence post, in his continuing effort to wield personal control over the spy agencies, according to multiple US reports.

By making Richard Grenell acting director of national intelligence (DNI), rather than nominating him for the permanent position, Trump has sidestepped the need for Senate confirmation, a loophole the president has increasingly exploited as he has moved to replace career officials with those chosen for their personal loyalty.
Click to expand...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/19/trump-richard-grenell-director-national-intelligence

This took me all of 2 minutes, along with some perspective from previous posts from both sides. I approach this shit in a pretty simplistic manner...

I'll guess this has been covered extensively in other threads from the past though. I just find it interesting.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Agree. Russia is probably behind the bombing of NS pipelines. Your reasons are good. Also agree the US isn't. Only people who believe the infotainer, Tucker Carlson, believe that.
Click to expand...
I‘d like to be able to think it was Greenpeace or some more hardcore environmentalists but so many facts get in the way. I envy the crazies sometimes, but then it’s not really their own fantasies they believe.


Not entirely relevant but might as well drop this here: EU countries have such an incredible dumb system to pay electricity providers. They basically want a certain amount supplied not a single provider can provide on its own. First is of course renewables and providers who don’t use gas to generate electricity. To completely fill the demand, the rest is from gas powered plants. The dumb part: all of the suppliers get the same rate in that particular deal. This meant solar and wind would not be more expensive than cheap power from gas powered plant. By directly connecting the rates, it now also means solar and wind power is never cheaper than electricity from gas. So all the providers get the same as the heavily increased rates gas powered plants charge and the increase in gas price directly causes an increase in electricty rates, regardless of the source.

As opponents say, the sunshine and the wind didn’t get more expensive. Laws and measures are on the way to end this madness. Possible retroactive (tax solar power providers more, cap rates from non-gas plants, even calls for nationalization) but this self-own has been going on for a while and is a major contributor to the inflation. If Putin wanted to spark socialism he‘d be winning, more and more people are fed up with a minority getting rich of the free market (=scam) of basic human necessities.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I‘d like to be able to think it was Greenpeace or some more hardcore environmentalists but so many facts get in the way. I envy the crazies sometimes, but then it’s not really their own fantasies they believe.


Not entirely relevant but might as well drop this here: EU countries have such an incredible dumb system to pay electricity providers. They basically want a certain amount supplied not a single provider can provide on its own. First is of course renewables and providers who don’t use gas to generate electricity. To completely fill the demand, the rest is from gas powered plants. The dumb part: all of the suppliers get the same rate in that particular deal. This meant solar and wind would not be more expensive than cheap power from gas powered plant. By directly connecting the rates, it now also means solar and wind power is never cheaper than electricity from gas. So all the providers get the same as the heavily increased rates gas powered plants charge and the increase in gas price directly causes an increase in electricty rates, regardless of the source.

As opponents say, the sunshine and the wind didn’t get more expensive. Laws and measures are on the way to end this madness. Possible retroactive (tax solar power providers more, cap rates from non-gas plants, even calls for nationalization) but this self-own has been going on for a while and is a major contributor to the inflation. If Putin wanted to spark socialism he‘d be winning, more and more people are fed up with a minority getting rich of the free market (=scam) of basic human necessities.
Click to expand...
1664848726436.png

So if everybody paid the same rate for electricity how was it set in 1/10/2020? Was it set at PV costs or some other way?

For a while now, Gas-generated electricity has cost more than PV, if gas producers set prices , I see how PV is getting a windfall today. It's a tricky thing, capping prices or subsidizing customers.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
View attachment 5207493

So if everybody paid the same rate for electricity how was it set in 1/10/2020? Was it set at PV costs or some other way?

For a while now, Gas-generated electricity has cost more than PV, if gas producers set prices , I see how PV is getting a windfall today.
Click to expand...
I don’t know exactly how long this system is in use, but yes that would have been the case on 1/10/2020. It is not gas producers or gas generated electricity providers that necessarily set the prices, it’s the most expensive one, which right now is gas, a scenario they didn’t imagine. So the fact pv is cheaper atm in wholesale doesn’t help the end user, it helps its providers gain extreme profits.

”More in general, the structure of EU wholesale electricity markets, where the most expensive power source (mostly fossil gas) used to meet total demand sets the price for the entire market, means that the savings generated by low cost solar PV and wind power are not passed on to electricity customers.”

https://caneurope.org/high-electricity-prices-links-fossil-gas-need-shift-to-renewables/ also contains the graph you posted.

This has a negative effect in so many ways. Businesses that were looking into electricity as an alternative to save their business, to survive, are now screwed regardless. It’s cheaper to drive a gasoline car than an EV in NL right now for people with renewed/new contracts, even if you fill up that fossil fuel car at premium prices along the highway. Governments can subsidize more new solar and wind parks but the consumer would still be paying the prices dictated by the natural gas rates.

Fogdog said:
It's a tricky thing, capping prices or subsidizing customers.
Click to expand...
Yes very hard to foresee the results. I like the idea of the system we’ll get in a few months, but the details not so much. Basically the first x amount of gas is capped at a fixed rate. Need more on top of that, you pay extra. I would have liked that capped rate to be far lower, perhaps even free to a certain minimal amount. Energy companies seem very willing to cooperate, perhaps realizing there’s an alternative they’d like even less and hope to keep the extra billions of profits they made thanks to Putin.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I don’t know exactly how long this system is in use, but yes that would have been the case on 1/10/2020. It is not gas producers or gas generated electricity providers that necessarily set the prices, it’s the most expensive one, which right now is gas, a scenario they didn’t imagine. So the fact pv is cheaper atm in wholesale doesn’t help the end user, it helps its providers gain extreme profits.

”More in general, the structure of EU wholesale electricity markets, where the most expensive power source (mostly fossil gas) used to meet total demand sets the price for the entire market, means that the savings generated by low cost solar PV and wind power are not passed on to electricity customers.”

https://caneurope.org/high-electricity-prices-links-fossil-gas-need-shift-to-renewables/ also contains the graph you posted.

This has a negative effect in so many ways. Businesses that were looking into electricity as an alternative to save their business, to survive, are now screwed regardless. It’s cheaper to drive a gasoline car than an EV in NL right now for people with renewed/new contracts, even if you fill up that fossil fuel car at premium prices along the highway. Governments can subsidize more new solar and wind parks but the consumer would still be paying the prices dictated by the natural gas rates.


Yes very hard to foresee the results. I like the idea of the system we’ll get in a few months, but the details not so much. Basically the first x amount of gas is capped at a fixed rate. Need more on top of that, you pay extra. I would have liked that capped rate to be far lower, perhaps even free to a certain minimal amount. Energy companies seem very willing to cooperate, perhaps realizing there’s an alternative they’d like even less and hope to keep the extra billions of profits they made thanks to Putin.
Click to expand...
Gas generator operators were making bank in 2020.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Why is it all the "bad countries" are the ones trying to get away from the hegemonic "U.S. dollar" (federal reserve golden goose money) ?

That's the underlying question that once answered sheds light on the symptoms of that, which is what most of the thread is about. Symptoms.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Gas generator operators were making bank in 2020.
Click to expand...
The idea behind this socalled pay-as-clear system is that the rates would be higher with the alternative, a pay-as-bid model where they'd all charge an even higher rate. I can see it working when supply is much higher than demand and you want the energy produced at lowest cost (renewables) to have the first chance to sell their electricity. Without it, gas generated providers would have possibly sold much more and the price for all providers would still be connected (in any particular deal at a given time). At least that's supposedly the thought behind it. EU and national governments are looking into claiming 'excessive profits' made by fossil fuel using generators, excessive thanks to Putin's invasion, so they're making bank still.

From EU: "There is general consensus that the marginal [pay-as-clear ] model is the most efficient for liberalised electricity markets. In fact, it was used by most EU countries before being anchored in EU legislation."

But also before these exceptional high gas rates which they surely didn't foresee... Despite these regulations there's a huge difference in consumer rates. One of the most expensive is NL, ironic since that's where the gas marketplace is located, and sits on top of enough gas to power us for 20years and make more money than the entire Norwegian fund. The subsidies consumers will get here is what we call a cigar from their own box. Rates are increased, part of that will be paid by government, but that cap is still 33% higher than it was earlier this year.
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
People saying it wasn't America after Biden said he would do it... Trump didn't try to become dictator either....lmao

He said he would and he did. I'm sure a million other scenarios will be said happened, But let's all face it- The US Prez publicly stated he would blow it up (and fk Germany..lol)- and it was a don't fk with me moment, and it's all blown up. It's what they are paid to do. Kinda refreshing. The prez has balls.
 
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:


Lots of supposition in that post.

My guess is that a rouge dictator decided he is getting old and decided to force his nation's citizens to pay the toll so that he could take his neighbors land in the war he has been waging the last couple decades and is destabilizing the entire world to the point that America is forced to help supply an ally that is valiantly fighting back against the despot. Classic American strategy, wait until we are dragged into it, then reluctantly wait until something really fucked up occurs that forces us to stick our necks out to help (rightly or wrongly) which is when it gets really ugly.
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Has the pungent smell of truth to it doesn't it?
Allies you say?
You have to love new allies. The enemy of my enemy and all that.
Does the US have allies with Ukraine?


The U.S. maintains an embassy in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, and Ukraine maintains an embassy in the American capital Washington, D.C. In addition to diplomatic support in its conflict with Russia, the U.S. provided Ukraine with US$1.5 billion in military aid from 2014 to 2019.


Out of curiosity as im not up on the Hunter investigation but when was he in the Ukraine?
 
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Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
NS2 did cost the Russians already 11 billion bucks in february this year, it an irony someone would just invest this for some market manipulation.

This is from the link an article from 24.02.2022
Germany on Tuesday halted the pipeline, worth $11 billion, citing Russia's actions toward Ukraine
Click to expand...
and the article clearly reveils some of the ulterior motives/interests: to antagonize Russia

U.S. slaps sanctions on company building Russia's Nord Stream 2 pipeline
 
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