The quest for density in buds

B

Bud man 43

Well-Known Member
bk78 said:
Does it data log? Or just read the levels when you are in the room?
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No data log- and yes it does go up after breathing in the room for a bit but I always take a look first thing.
It going up from breathing says to me it is likely pretty accurate.
The level also rises when I have the fans on- probably because it is spreading it out rather than collecting on the floor.
 
G

Grow Monster

Well-Known Member
Bud man 43 said:
Why do you say the c02 bags are useless?
I have 3 in my grow room and regularly see levels between 700-1100.
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Try a run without it. Any benefits u were seeing was probably do to grow skills getting better. Been there done that save yo money. Happy plants don't need to be pampered to give us great flowers. After topping, lst, super cropping, defoliating, bloom boosters, teas, etc
She better put out on the first date. :hump: lol
 
bk78

bk78

Well-Known Member
Bud man 43 said:
No data log- and yes it does go up after breathing in the room for a bit but I always take a look first thing.
It going up from breathing says to me it is likely pretty accurate.
The level also rises when I have the fans on- probably because it is spreading it out rather than collecting on the floor.
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I actually data logged with my pulse pro a full week with and without in my journal. The bags did absolutely nothing but take money out of my bank acct.
 
G

Grow Monster

Well-Known Member
Seriously tho I saw no difference. They say room needs to be truely sealed. Then u wanna match light ppfd and feedings to co2 level if u really wanna push it to its max. Why would I go thru all that(and pay) if I'm already getting dense nugs. The stuff u get from the stores or homie has been dried and compressed to get rock hard.
 
B

Bud man 43

Well-Known Member
bk78 said:
I actually data logged with my pulse pro a full week with and without in my journal. The bags did absolutely nothing but take money out of my bank acct.
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The bags are really pretty cheap- $30 last 6 months- I chose to use them as a inexpensive alternative to the c02 monitor and dispense systems which just seems like overkill.
I replace them 1 at a time- staggered.
Growing mycelium produces c02 naturally, it is not very sophisticated.
I have had good results for only 1 year experience so i am reluctant to go through a group without them.
The plants use c02 so it seems logical that replacing some would be beneficial.
I certainly don’t want to waste $ however I was 5 years on medical before laws changed to allow growing.so i was spending considerable chang each month. A month of c02 is probably less than 1 day buying medical.
Long ago when I had a plant in a phototron-
In a closet with just a fan I didn’t understand why it was never growing very well.
With so much information and nutrients available now it is a different game for sure.
I do have gas appliances in my house so that produces some but not reliable amounts.
So if I am growing in an enclosed space why would the plants not use up some or most of the available c02?
I think someone mentioned that if you get a good balance of c02, nutes and light the plants will do well.
I am definitely still learning every day so I appreciate the conversation and advice. ☮
 
B

Bud man 43

Well-Known Member
Grow Monster said:
Seriously tho I saw no difference. They say room needs to be truely sealed. Then u wanna match light ppfd and feedings to co2 level if u really wanna push it to its max. Why would I go thru all that(and pay) if I'm already getting dense nugs. The stuff u get from the stores or homie has been dried and compressed to get rock hard.
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If you had just activated the bags- it takes a month for the mycelium to begin growing enough to produce C02- if they are old they slow. I thought C02 was a pretty basic need for good growth and the debate was done.
My understanding was 400 is the general outside ppm and any lower will stunt growth.
 
G

Grow Monster

Well-Known Member
Kerowacked said:
Send a copy to mother nature, she don’t know about vpd either.
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Do u really wanna put your light in a pissing contest with the sun.
Everything is guidelines. I believe it holds some merit. I've never heard of it but am intrigued in trying it. What can it hurt. I do like homies results and that speaks volumes. The calculator lets me know where I am according to what they feel is the greatest environment for success.
Dont knock it if u haven't tried it. If u did please share your experience.
 
Kerowacked

Kerowacked

Well-Known Member
Grow Monster said:
Do u really wanna put your light in a pissing contest with the sun.
Everything is guidelines. I believe it holds some merit. I've never heard of it but am intrigued in trying it. What can it hurt. I do like homies results and that speaks volumes. The calculator lets me know where I am according to what they feel is the greatest environment for success.
Dont knock it if u haven't tried it. If u did please share your experience.
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Nature is the complete opposite of any vpd chart i ever saw. Nature is hot and dry for veg, cold and damp in flower. But yeah, indoors i rely on the vpd chart for controlling mold, then dry at 60°/60% and cure for months.
image.jpg
 
xox

xox

Well-Known Member
here are my takeaways in regards to co2, vpd, and light intensity in regards to flower density. yes i do believe increased light will encourage greater flower density from the plant you have chosen to grow you can also increase the amount of light the plant can absorb by running your rooms co2 at 1500ppm. the 700-1000 your seeing may very well be the natural ambient co2 in your house at 1500ppm the plant can absorb alot more light vs 400 ppm outside. however you need your light close enough to the plants for that co2 at that level to be useful. as far as vpd goes in flower im not a fan i look at those charts and always think that ideal humidity level in those charts would encourage mold or bud rot if you have huge colas however i think this machine https://airrosshield.com/ sold here would prevent mold and allow the perfect vpd while in flower. im not convinced vpd would increase overall density of the flowers though.
 
B

Bud man 43

Well-Known Member
My opinion of vpd is that it seems logical.
Yes no one can complete with Mother Nature however she is far from perfect when it comes to plants. Everything seems to average out outside however you can easily run into problems with a couple weeks of rainy weather with no time to dry out maturing buds and loose everything. Not so perfect.
I think every plant, like most living things has a sweet spot for light- some plants like full sun, some like shade- water- some plants like wet soil never to dry out, some must dry out to survive-nutrients- some plants like lots of nitrogen, some will be burned by it-
PH- some like acidic soil, some prefer alkaline-temperature…. and on and on.
So why would finding the sweet spot for humidity and temperature to help boost nutrient uptake not improve growth?
The chart seems logical to me as a good goal for my growing conditions. A target.
 
1

1littlesoldier1

Well-Known Member
My room is sealed but i use passive intake so i will never be able to use co2. I use passive intake so i don’t have to spend extra money on AC and i can still run all year long with only passive intake and have as many HID as i want.
 
Splinter7

Splinter7

Well-Known Member
odd, didn't see anyone mention uvb. it is supposed to make the nugs denser (smaller but same weight)...smellier and frostier.
i used the agromax pure uvb. i have no idea if it helped, but i was happy with teh frost levels. i got some pretty dense nugs.

i saw my nugs get denser when i moved to hydro. i saw my nugs get denser when i had good/lucky genes. i saw my nugs get denser maxing out the light in the tent. i saw my nugs get denser when i moved to QB/samsung lights. i can now fit an oz into a sandwich bag and into a quart jar...barely.

the auto bud my buddy grows is as dense as the street stuff.... which i think is often autos where live. some of the strain names are auto only and i mistakenly grew out some of the bag seed. it started flower in week 4 of veg. i think autos may be denser sometimes....the DLI is maxed the entire time.

how the buds are trimmed matters. my buds take up more room because they are not shaved down and smooth. they are pointy from being more loosely trimmed.

i use gh floranova, koolbloom wet/dry. along with the other basics calmag/si. no co2. about 54w/sqft of samsung lights during flower. still, i think there are improvements

was considering playing with paclo. i have no idea if it actually makes buds unsafe, but it only lasts in the plant about 37 days based on my research. using it during early flower (1st 3 weeks) will help the plant not stretch and keep the nodes tight. then i think you just stop using it to get things clean. seems ok.
 
Letstrip

Letstrip

Well-Known Member
Splinter7 said:
odd, didn't see anyone mention uvb. it is supposed to make the nugs denser (smaller but same weight)...smellier and frostier.
i used the agromax pure uvb. i have no idea if it helped, but i was happy with teh frost levels. i got some pretty dense nugs.

i saw my nugs get denser when i moved to hydro. i saw my nugs get denser when i had good/lucky genes. i saw my nugs get denser maxing out the light in the tent. i saw my nugs get denser when i moved to QB/samsung lights. i can now fit an oz into a sandwich bag and into a quart jar...barely.

the auto bud my buddy grows is as dense as the street stuff.... which i think is often autos where live. some of the strain names are auto only and i mistakenly grew out some of the bag seed. it started flower in week 4 of veg. i think autos may be denser sometimes....the DLI is maxed the entire time.

how the buds are trimmed matters. my buds take up more room because they are not shaved down and smooth. they are pointy from being more loosely trimmed.

i use gh floranova, koolbloom wet/dry. along with the other basics calmag/si. no co2. about 54w/sqft of samsung lights during flower. still, i think there are improvements

was considering playing with paclo. i have no idea if it actually makes buds unsafe, but it only lasts in the plant about 37 days based on my research. using it during early flower (1st 3 weeks) will help the plant not stretch and keep the nodes tight. then i think you just stop using it to get things clean. seems ok.
Click to expand...
I had wondered this myself. I'm based in New Zealand and we have the highest UV in the world, partly because were closer to antarctica and partly because of the lower air pollution. I have only grown a couple of times outdoor here and have produced very frosty buds which i believe is partly due to the harsh sun and UV. They were also very dense but this could have been for a number of reasons. We have high skin cancer rates, great for weed though :bigjoint: Gonna run again this year so im curious to see what goes down

Even the little buds down below were covered in snow
IMG_5367.JPG
 
PURPLEB3RRYKUSH

PURPLEB3RRYKUSH

Well-Known Member
Splinter7 said:
odd, didn't see anyone mention uvb. it is supposed to make the nugs denser (smaller but same weight)...smellier and frostier.
i used the agromax pure uvb. i have no idea if it helped, but i was happy with teh frost levels. i got some pretty dense nugs.

i saw my nugs get denser when i moved to hydro. i saw my nugs get denser when i had good/lucky genes. i saw my nugs get denser maxing out the light in the tent. i saw my nugs get denser when i moved to QB/samsung lights. i can now fit an oz into a sandwich bag and into a quart jar...barely.

the auto bud my buddy grows is as dense as the street stuff.... which i think is often autos where live. some of the strain names are auto only and i mistakenly grew out some of the bag seed. it started flower in week 4 of veg. i think autos may be denser sometimes....the DLI is maxed the entire time.

how the buds are trimmed matters. my buds take up more room because they are not shaved down and smooth. they are pointy from being more loosely trimmed.

i use gh floranova, koolbloom wet/dry. along with the other basics calmag/si. no co2. about 54w/sqft of samsung lights during flower. still, i think there are improvements

was considering playing with paclo. i have no idea if it actually makes buds unsafe, but it only lasts in the plant about 37 days based on my research. using it during early flower (1st 3 weeks) will help the plant not stretch and keep the nodes tight. then i think you just stop using it to get things clean. seems ok.
Click to expand...
Yeah proper UVB lights are expensive
 
Splinter7

Splinter7

Well-Known Member
Letstrip said:
I had wondered this myself. I'm based in New Zealand and we have the highest UV in the world, partly because were closer to antarctica and partly because of the lower air pollution. I have only grown a couple of times outdoor here and have produced very frosty buds which i believe is partly due to the harsh sun and UV. They were also very dense but this could have been for a number of reasons. We have high skin cancer rates, great for weed though :bigjoint: Gonna run again this year so im curious to see what goes down

Even the little buds down below were covered in snow
View attachment 5207918
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. cool. but those skin cancer rates probably also have something to do with people from the UK living there. i bet the locals don't have skin cancer issues.
 
Splinter7

Splinter7

Well-Known Member
PURPLEB3RRYKUSH said:
Yeah proper UVB lights are expensive
Click to expand...
the agromax isn't good?. I did a bunch of research and that was the only one that was highly recommended. the LED stuff sucks. there is that Migro stuff, but it doesn't fit in the tent or work with my panel light. Iirc, even the migro guy recommended agromax. i just ran it for 15 minutes each hour for 4 hours in the middle of lights on.
 
Letstrip

Letstrip

Well-Known Member
Splinter7 said:
I didn't know that. cool. but those skin cancer rates probably also have something to do with people from the UK living there. i bet the locals don't have skin cancer issues.
Click to expand...
Well, 75% of people living here are of European descent from over the past ~150 years so yep, genetics play a role. More acclimatized people will deal with it better but even what you would consider a "local" hasn't been here all that long. Its more of a southern hemisphere problem, the sun gets closer to the southern hemisphere in December/January during our summer and the sun is furthest away during June/July, which is the northern hemispheres summer which equates to about 7% more UV radiation than the northern hemispheres summer. Ozone is produced at the equator and transported to higher latitude's. During the summer months there is far less in the southern hemisphere than in the north which is another 10%. (ozone absrobs uvb) so less ozone = more UVB. Pair this with cleaner air and you have a pretty big jump to about 40% more UV intensity when compared to the same corresponding latitudes in the northern hemisphere, according to NIWA. Not sure if any studies have been done on the effect this has on food/marijuana production in terms of flavor, taste, health properties or density but if what you are saying about UV is correct then its certainly very interesting :)
 
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