twelvevolt
Member
I've run a good number of strains and i think i might be able to offer some of what i have learnt.
A quick list. These ones came after i found such a thing called a seed bank or shop. probably back around 1999.
romulan from federation bank ( dont look for em, its closed down now) 7 of 9 it was called. great weed. short plants, dark green, lovely piney smell. nice orange coloured mad hairs. sorry thats what we called them. pistils i should say.
hard to root. yield was on the low side. lost the strain because was hard to root. could have gotten it again. didnt bother but boy it was nice smelling and had strength to the high. ahh the wonders of access to the world of cannabis! i know why sub used this.
later I bought romberry instead of going back to the romulan but i gave them away before running any.
white widow- short, lighter colour, plenty resin but would cure with a smell i did not like. I think this smell might be what people call baby poo smell.
green spirit- a cross between big bud and skunk. tall and hard buds that were prickly to the touch. did not like because it seemed a bit too "dry and prickly" like it came from a desert. heavy yielder though. i do seem to recall some nanas on this one very late in flower but they did no harm and i never ran with her again anyway.
10 years later i tried to sprout some and they all failed.
white rhino. went with this one for years. still have access to it actually. good yield, strong acting. tight internodes. ran two phenos. one taller than the other but basically the same. F1 sisters i guess. i can not say enough that final outcome for any clone will differ between environment provided and so growers.
when you see a top photo, you know the grower did well with that one.
Blueberry jam. two phenos. one short and fat buds, one taller but still pretty good. tasty stuff.
strawberry cough. nice looking. not straight up and down solid on the stems like say trainwreck though but nice.
now to my points, i bought DJs blueberry. as stated, it does not like too much nutes. hard to get solid buds. found them to be airy but unique to what i had been used to. this was not a dialed in grow. there are people that have run this with good success. its not a large yeilder. it is mighty tasty though. never went for another run due to life circumstances at the time.
was stable. did not hermie. 5 seeds only. maybe I got lucky? more on that later ok..
its not the full story..
I had maybe a year earlier got a BB offering from a cheaper seedbank from amsterdam. not sure what bank. they were sent to me.
of three of these, 1 male, 1 female, one hermie and it hermied early. i blamed the bank for giving me hermie stock. but it is in blueberry.
this was so good tasting and smelling that i went for the original as stated above. looking back, i could have cloned the one that stayed true sex and ran ( cloned)with it. but like i said life circumstances prevented that.
Now the DJ BB as people have said has mutant looking leaves. Sagamartha has been said by Dj not to be his blueberry. You can bet they started with it but did not keep it true to what he, DJ, would choose by way of exact pheno. So he was not happy in that a number of places were selling blueberry but not his choice, and he would know what his choice was. he felt they were not examples of what his blueberry was. so yes, it is not fully stable and in others hand can drift from his ideal.
what is out there that is uniformly stable? long term inbreds and f1s from those.
You will notice that DJ has brought out a True Blueberry. and its been a lot of years since the originals.
Now what happens if you dont have the original parents in clone form to keep doing seed runs for 15 plus years? You need to go back and start again with something.
Which i figure is what his True blueberry is but my way of thinking is that it would be close. its a big ask to expect someone to supply the very exact same seed stock forever. but all is not lost. do not be so negative. just search.
Yes i have grown that true blueberry. Its taller. but has the same qualities as the original. no hermie but i only ran two beans and the male was used across a bubblegum.
that outcome is for future knowledge..
Now ive had a whack of dealing with hermies going back decades, prior to getting seed bank names. these were sativa types.
then came those seedbank strains with names and it actually ended there for a good while.
The strains i had ( listed at the top) would never hermy early or late or with any stress.
I deemed these to be true sex varieties. But now i realise that maybe if you grew out enough seeds, or overfertlised on a strain you think is pure sex, you might even get hermie amongst those somewhere but i do believe there are hermy free varieties going by what i have seen.
If you recall back in the day when people first began using colloidal silver to produce hermies, or asprin or whatever.. there were a number of new creations that had to be removed from the market because they would not just produce all female stock, but would also produce hermies. enough complained that the companies stopped running them. maybe they later worked out their errors. i think these could be offered more stable with proper parent selection.
Now my take on that is that the female of one parent or the other as the case might be, was carrying the hermy trait, just not known to the breeder in a hurry at the time to cash in on every strain all female. I actually think these strains could be femmed to produce all female, if they took the time to maybe stress test the parent used.
I know what people are thinking. this can not happen, if its a female, crossed with female then you only get xx or all female. well it has and so it does happen.
well this has been studied in species of fish, so that they can breed all female or all males, and some lines from some countries crossed with others will produce higher ratios of males or higher ratios of females. Then there is a way of getting all males, and they consider the donor male parent is a super male.
i dont mean to say fish are like plants, but nature has its ways, and its cues.
if there was a time when there was no male plants, and the female went through stress and produced pollen then that may well have kept the species going in that area.
and its special system carries on, if this happens over the thousands of years again and again, then its going to be fairly normal. if you think about it, most plant species are like this and it probably even went the other way, whereby it was normal for male female on the same plant.
because at some point in time, a plant either had to produce a male to even spread seed from day 1. or it had to just produce male parts as well.
and this goes back to bacteria and then algae. that just split in two.
So i would say that true sex among a population happened over time of good conditions and luckily enough happened to be the case with cannabis.
if you source from somewhere (locations on the globe) that hermy traits didnt get "needed" absolutely, as a way of survival, then they might be all pure sex.
a super male turns sex first, ( an all male) and spits out his genes to the species. from there, each year after, these offspring with these genes continue to turn male early and pollinate and off she goes. eventually taking over the hermy trait in the species in that area.
looking at whats in the market these days, the history will very very often go back to some of these hermy lines. and really, for the most part only say 40 years or less when humans started selecting against it but as you know, mountain or land race finders had these things in the mix linked to what special things they were looking for.
oh also i knew a guy that ran with a skunk. he could get it to stay true sex. but if his timer jammed on or he over fertilised he would be holding a heap of seed.
hence why it is possible that the super soil from subs run may have brought on the blueberry hermy early on just the same.
To the bubblegum.
serious seeds i think.
You would think zero hermies from these guys, they only had a number of offering at the time so why run with hermie traits?
I researched that and it seemed ok.
well it was hard to bring out see, for people doing the right thing ( nutes and light, maybe even temps) you might not find any of them to hermie in a hurry.
Once i got hermies from the bubblegum, i read up and did find others that found some. they were mad, but i started to work out what was happening.
I see hermies in a few forms. some that are real easy to hermy and they just go male and female very early on. some that show it up late. some that never never ever will. and then there are the ones that might show up very late, and so late it wont hurt that crop if all at the same stage. too late to harm a thing.
This i think is the reason why sometimes you get the odd seed. not all hermies throw out heaps of pollen. its the early turning ones that you do not want to keep.
Now if you take the above situations, you need to keep in mind that grower error or different conditions could also be at play to bring me to those conclusions.
as for fem seeds, just be mindful they have their place. I read a lot about how its bad, can ruin the variety and will doom the world of genetics.
well maybe if every true breeding female from now on copped some poorer genetics than this might be the case, but i doubt this will happen.
There are enough people that hate hermies to stop that from going on. Buy what you like. You can always choose.
i have never seen any evidence of this idea that a fem plant will ruin a strain because a fem plant was a parent.. it could ruin something good if its a hermy tending parent, or if its just a poor choice. simple solution. stop using it. go back a step.
Maybe if people envision probs, it has to do with bad parent selection. If you want to produce all female seed, you bloody well should be spending the time to make sure the genes are all good. In times of haste of some breeders this might not happen but is not only the case with fem varieties.
As you might be working out, sometimes the hermy tendency has been put up with for that of which is special. How do you breed it out but keep only those traits you dig without crossing to something different that is true breeding, you see that might dilute what you are after.
This things have possibly been done painstakingly in the past, but it seems to me have not entirely lost the hermy factor being in the mix somewhere. people that have removed the hermy tendency altogether might have had the success by breeding to true sex lines and getting it good that way.
So this bubblegum run from Serious, which incidentally turned out to be an unknown strain i ran with ten years ago given to me as unknown but was fine, had a hermy turn up early on.
yes i wrecked the light cycle. early on. outside to indoors, inside out and this is what happened.
it looked male, then showed pistils. it went outside and promptly got itself killed by drying out. that is after it pollinated a true female bubblegum. the outcome of those is yet to be determined but im not holding my breathe on how quickly i want to investigate the outcome. i am guessing there will be a number of easy enough hermies in there later down the track. maybe much higher ratio than the seeds i bought.
So its sister, experienced exactly the same in out out in and messed up light cycle.
BUT it stayed true female. all the way. it even went from indoors to outdoors over a winter, survived and came back the next summer to be cloned as a pure female stable bubblegum. Does anyone follow me yet?
So if you run with only five beans, then yes, lets say that from 50 kind of random seeds on the sorters bench, you might happen to get lucky or cop it bad.
So when sub ran his DJ blueberry, this can happen. same as it can happen for other strains, and even those he carries.
That would be the case, even if its only 1 in 12 females that actually does this.
Now DJ has said many years back that the hermie came from the thai. i forget which thai, the highland or lowland.. not sure.
but he did manage to breed it out for the most part and i think that was by using the afghani.
and no doubt by not using hermies anymore. There was a time i think that he even played with a hermy because it was special ( i dont know if this was with BB but hey, its there to begin with and has been the case for probably a thousand years and well beyond. so revisiting it once isnt going to do much if you back away from it from there.
So i've got some plushberry. five from five sprouted. two are the same, 1 is so slow going its a reject. then two others are different. i do not know the sex or phenos because thats for another future day. If i wanted reliable true sex strains, i would have went elsewhere, cept i am willing to take the risk, and take the time to stress test what i have, and if need be, maybe even buy again. if just because i like to try different smells, structures, highs etc.
Now as for the calls that black cherry soda or plush berry has Kush in it, does anyone notice how black cherry soda lineage is an unknown but it has kush traits and smells of it and tastes of it?
well it dont take much searching older kush lines to get an idea where it comes from originally. There aint that many land race kinds, and you can buy the line even today.
Just look for a kush, a pakistan mountains plant with pink in it.
yes its that simple. you can even find pictures of said pure line with pink in it and it does have similar structure enough to place it as an older gene contributor.
now sure, chances are that it might not have been a close relative to the black cherry soda. but it could be too.
best wishes.
I
A quick list. These ones came after i found such a thing called a seed bank or shop. probably back around 1999.
romulan from federation bank ( dont look for em, its closed down now) 7 of 9 it was called. great weed. short plants, dark green, lovely piney smell. nice orange coloured mad hairs. sorry thats what we called them. pistils i should say.
hard to root. yield was on the low side. lost the strain because was hard to root. could have gotten it again. didnt bother but boy it was nice smelling and had strength to the high. ahh the wonders of access to the world of cannabis! i know why sub used this.
later I bought romberry instead of going back to the romulan but i gave them away before running any.
white widow- short, lighter colour, plenty resin but would cure with a smell i did not like. I think this smell might be what people call baby poo smell.
green spirit- a cross between big bud and skunk. tall and hard buds that were prickly to the touch. did not like because it seemed a bit too "dry and prickly" like it came from a desert. heavy yielder though. i do seem to recall some nanas on this one very late in flower but they did no harm and i never ran with her again anyway.
10 years later i tried to sprout some and they all failed.
white rhino. went with this one for years. still have access to it actually. good yield, strong acting. tight internodes. ran two phenos. one taller than the other but basically the same. F1 sisters i guess. i can not say enough that final outcome for any clone will differ between environment provided and so growers.
when you see a top photo, you know the grower did well with that one.
Blueberry jam. two phenos. one short and fat buds, one taller but still pretty good. tasty stuff.
strawberry cough. nice looking. not straight up and down solid on the stems like say trainwreck though but nice.
now to my points, i bought DJs blueberry. as stated, it does not like too much nutes. hard to get solid buds. found them to be airy but unique to what i had been used to. this was not a dialed in grow. there are people that have run this with good success. its not a large yeilder. it is mighty tasty though. never went for another run due to life circumstances at the time.
was stable. did not hermie. 5 seeds only. maybe I got lucky? more on that later ok..
its not the full story..
I had maybe a year earlier got a BB offering from a cheaper seedbank from amsterdam. not sure what bank. they were sent to me.
of three of these, 1 male, 1 female, one hermie and it hermied early. i blamed the bank for giving me hermie stock. but it is in blueberry.
this was so good tasting and smelling that i went for the original as stated above. looking back, i could have cloned the one that stayed true sex and ran ( cloned)with it. but like i said life circumstances prevented that.
Now the DJ BB as people have said has mutant looking leaves. Sagamartha has been said by Dj not to be his blueberry. You can bet they started with it but did not keep it true to what he, DJ, would choose by way of exact pheno. So he was not happy in that a number of places were selling blueberry but not his choice, and he would know what his choice was. he felt they were not examples of what his blueberry was. so yes, it is not fully stable and in others hand can drift from his ideal.
what is out there that is uniformly stable? long term inbreds and f1s from those.
You will notice that DJ has brought out a True Blueberry. and its been a lot of years since the originals.
Now what happens if you dont have the original parents in clone form to keep doing seed runs for 15 plus years? You need to go back and start again with something.
Which i figure is what his True blueberry is but my way of thinking is that it would be close. its a big ask to expect someone to supply the very exact same seed stock forever. but all is not lost. do not be so negative. just search.
Yes i have grown that true blueberry. Its taller. but has the same qualities as the original. no hermie but i only ran two beans and the male was used across a bubblegum.
that outcome is for future knowledge..
Now ive had a whack of dealing with hermies going back decades, prior to getting seed bank names. these were sativa types.
then came those seedbank strains with names and it actually ended there for a good while.
The strains i had ( listed at the top) would never hermy early or late or with any stress.
I deemed these to be true sex varieties. But now i realise that maybe if you grew out enough seeds, or overfertlised on a strain you think is pure sex, you might even get hermie amongst those somewhere but i do believe there are hermy free varieties going by what i have seen.
If you recall back in the day when people first began using colloidal silver to produce hermies, or asprin or whatever.. there were a number of new creations that had to be removed from the market because they would not just produce all female stock, but would also produce hermies. enough complained that the companies stopped running them. maybe they later worked out their errors. i think these could be offered more stable with proper parent selection.
Now my take on that is that the female of one parent or the other as the case might be, was carrying the hermy trait, just not known to the breeder in a hurry at the time to cash in on every strain all female. I actually think these strains could be femmed to produce all female, if they took the time to maybe stress test the parent used.
I know what people are thinking. this can not happen, if its a female, crossed with female then you only get xx or all female. well it has and so it does happen.
well this has been studied in species of fish, so that they can breed all female or all males, and some lines from some countries crossed with others will produce higher ratios of males or higher ratios of females. Then there is a way of getting all males, and they consider the donor male parent is a super male.
i dont mean to say fish are like plants, but nature has its ways, and its cues.
if there was a time when there was no male plants, and the female went through stress and produced pollen then that may well have kept the species going in that area.
and its special system carries on, if this happens over the thousands of years again and again, then its going to be fairly normal. if you think about it, most plant species are like this and it probably even went the other way, whereby it was normal for male female on the same plant.
because at some point in time, a plant either had to produce a male to even spread seed from day 1. or it had to just produce male parts as well.
and this goes back to bacteria and then algae. that just split in two.
So i would say that true sex among a population happened over time of good conditions and luckily enough happened to be the case with cannabis.
if you source from somewhere (locations on the globe) that hermy traits didnt get "needed" absolutely, as a way of survival, then they might be all pure sex.
a super male turns sex first, ( an all male) and spits out his genes to the species. from there, each year after, these offspring with these genes continue to turn male early and pollinate and off she goes. eventually taking over the hermy trait in the species in that area.
looking at whats in the market these days, the history will very very often go back to some of these hermy lines. and really, for the most part only say 40 years or less when humans started selecting against it but as you know, mountain or land race finders had these things in the mix linked to what special things they were looking for.
oh also i knew a guy that ran with a skunk. he could get it to stay true sex. but if his timer jammed on or he over fertilised he would be holding a heap of seed.
hence why it is possible that the super soil from subs run may have brought on the blueberry hermy early on just the same.
To the bubblegum.
serious seeds i think.
You would think zero hermies from these guys, they only had a number of offering at the time so why run with hermie traits?
I researched that and it seemed ok.
well it was hard to bring out see, for people doing the right thing ( nutes and light, maybe even temps) you might not find any of them to hermie in a hurry.
Once i got hermies from the bubblegum, i read up and did find others that found some. they were mad, but i started to work out what was happening.
I see hermies in a few forms. some that are real easy to hermy and they just go male and female very early on. some that show it up late. some that never never ever will. and then there are the ones that might show up very late, and so late it wont hurt that crop if all at the same stage. too late to harm a thing.
This i think is the reason why sometimes you get the odd seed. not all hermies throw out heaps of pollen. its the early turning ones that you do not want to keep.
Now if you take the above situations, you need to keep in mind that grower error or different conditions could also be at play to bring me to those conclusions.
as for fem seeds, just be mindful they have their place. I read a lot about how its bad, can ruin the variety and will doom the world of genetics.
well maybe if every true breeding female from now on copped some poorer genetics than this might be the case, but i doubt this will happen.
There are enough people that hate hermies to stop that from going on. Buy what you like. You can always choose.
i have never seen any evidence of this idea that a fem plant will ruin a strain because a fem plant was a parent.. it could ruin something good if its a hermy tending parent, or if its just a poor choice. simple solution. stop using it. go back a step.
Maybe if people envision probs, it has to do with bad parent selection. If you want to produce all female seed, you bloody well should be spending the time to make sure the genes are all good. In times of haste of some breeders this might not happen but is not only the case with fem varieties.
As you might be working out, sometimes the hermy tendency has been put up with for that of which is special. How do you breed it out but keep only those traits you dig without crossing to something different that is true breeding, you see that might dilute what you are after.
This things have possibly been done painstakingly in the past, but it seems to me have not entirely lost the hermy factor being in the mix somewhere. people that have removed the hermy tendency altogether might have had the success by breeding to true sex lines and getting it good that way.
So this bubblegum run from Serious, which incidentally turned out to be an unknown strain i ran with ten years ago given to me as unknown but was fine, had a hermy turn up early on.
yes i wrecked the light cycle. early on. outside to indoors, inside out and this is what happened.
it looked male, then showed pistils. it went outside and promptly got itself killed by drying out. that is after it pollinated a true female bubblegum. the outcome of those is yet to be determined but im not holding my breathe on how quickly i want to investigate the outcome. i am guessing there will be a number of easy enough hermies in there later down the track. maybe much higher ratio than the seeds i bought.
So its sister, experienced exactly the same in out out in and messed up light cycle.
BUT it stayed true female. all the way. it even went from indoors to outdoors over a winter, survived and came back the next summer to be cloned as a pure female stable bubblegum. Does anyone follow me yet?
So if you run with only five beans, then yes, lets say that from 50 kind of random seeds on the sorters bench, you might happen to get lucky or cop it bad.
So when sub ran his DJ blueberry, this can happen. same as it can happen for other strains, and even those he carries.
That would be the case, even if its only 1 in 12 females that actually does this.
Now DJ has said many years back that the hermie came from the thai. i forget which thai, the highland or lowland.. not sure.
but he did manage to breed it out for the most part and i think that was by using the afghani.
and no doubt by not using hermies anymore. There was a time i think that he even played with a hermy because it was special ( i dont know if this was with BB but hey, its there to begin with and has been the case for probably a thousand years and well beyond. so revisiting it once isnt going to do much if you back away from it from there.
So i've got some plushberry. five from five sprouted. two are the same, 1 is so slow going its a reject. then two others are different. i do not know the sex or phenos because thats for another future day. If i wanted reliable true sex strains, i would have went elsewhere, cept i am willing to take the risk, and take the time to stress test what i have, and if need be, maybe even buy again. if just because i like to try different smells, structures, highs etc.
Now as for the calls that black cherry soda or plush berry has Kush in it, does anyone notice how black cherry soda lineage is an unknown but it has kush traits and smells of it and tastes of it?
well it dont take much searching older kush lines to get an idea where it comes from originally. There aint that many land race kinds, and you can buy the line even today.
Just look for a kush, a pakistan mountains plant with pink in it.
yes its that simple. you can even find pictures of said pure line with pink in it and it does have similar structure enough to place it as an older gene contributor.
now sure, chances are that it might not have been a close relative to the black cherry soda. but it could be too.
best wishes.
I
