Super Lemon Haze 14 wks of flowering wont finish

Dr. Who said:

SURE! read this then.....

I got asked about this in a PM by a member after seeing the disaster another thread became. He asked where to find books and papers on "flushing" and said he might try the "fade".

Here's my answer to him......I felt it needs to be seen,,,,,,again!

Your looking for post grad work. You would do better to search papers......The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds, but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!


This is real good too.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/




Flushing improves nothing.....How do you cure?

Click to expand...

Daggy said:

I understand what your saying, but Im not trying to remove anything from the bud when I flush. I am simply removing all the salts from my medium so the plant has no food and starts eating whatever food is left in the leafs. I guess the theory is if the plant is eating itself its better than the plants eating the salts. I have however seen very different results from not flushing a crop. I will never do it again. Maybe if you use soil or organics its a different world so idk, but with coco I can pretty positively say flushing DOES make a difference in taste and burn. As far as the plant herming while you flush it Thats not really an issue. It will never be long enough for a seed to form. If the plant does get stressed it takes atleast 3-5 days to produce some bananas, then another couple days to pop, then another 2-3 weeks for a seed to form. If you have success with no flush then all to ya, however I have seen the difference myself and have seen some of the best growers around and they all tell me the same thing . 2-3 week flush.

Click to expand...

Daggy said:

I understand what your saying, but Im not trying to remove anything from the bud when I flush. I am simply removing all the salts from my medium so the plant has no food and starts eating whatever food is left in the leafs. I guess the theory is if the plant is eating itself its better than the plants eating the salts. I have however seen very different results from not flushing a crop. I will never do it again. Maybe if you use soil or organics its a different world so idk, but with coco I can pretty positively say flushing DOES make a difference in taste and burn. As far as the plant herming while you flush it Thats not really an issue. It will never be long enough for a seed to form. If the plant does get stressed it takes atleast 3-5 days to produce some bananas, then another couple days to pop, then another 2-3 weeks for a seed to form. If you have success with no flush then all to ya, however I have seen the difference myself and have seen some of the best growers around and they all tell me the same thing . 2-3 week flush.

Click to expand...

Dr. Who said:

Plants do not "eat salts"!
Your not getting it! Still! The food from those "leafs" (leaves) goes from the "leafs" to the buds! That's what you harvest and smoke. You're not really getting rid of anything then - are you?

Your problem is in not drying and curing properly. I would bet dimes to dollars, your one who could not wait to actually do, a proper cure.

As far as herming goes -it's taking energy away from what YOU WANT the plant to be doing!

Please feel free to continue on with what YOU prefer and believe! But look up what a proper dry and cure is - try it!
Try and keep your practice to yourself....

Click to expand...

Dr. Who said:

Plants do not "eat salts"!
Your not getting it! Still! The food from those "leafs" (leaves) goes from the "leafs" to the buds! That's what you harvest and smoke. You're not really getting rid of anything then - are you?

Your problem is in not drying and curing properly. I would bet dimes to dollars, your one who could not wait to actually do, a proper cure.

As far as herming goes -it's taking energy away from what YOU WANT the plant to be doing!

Please feel free to continue on with what YOU prefer and believe! But look up what a proper dry and cure is - try it!
Try and keep your practice to yourself....

Click to expand...

koda7225 said:

Ok for the flushers amd the non-flushers here is my questions to the both of you.....

What EC/PPM are your running?
Are you running organic or synthetic?
Dirt or hydro?

Click to expand...

MrClone said:

Very well put and explained.. Also one thing I have noticed if you use soil with additives.. it is much harder to get the adds out of the soil.. Is why I use Sunshine Mix #4 black bag.. very easy to go all the way if at the end you do a feed flush feed flush feed flush and then cut nutes down to 1/4 strength at end cutting out all nitrogen. Mostly to prevent over burning them and flushing out the nitrogen towards end when I am pushing them hard as I do want burn throughout flowering to push/stress the plant for better quality... Not for flushing your plants sake which I never do

Click to expand...

Dr. Who said:

SURE! read this then.....

I got asked about this in a PM by a member after seeing the disaster another thread became. He asked where to find books and papers on "flushing" and said he might try the "fade".

Here's my answer to him......I felt it needs to be seen,,,,,,again!

Your looking for post grad work. You would do better to search papers......The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds, but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!


This is real good too.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/




Flushing improves nothing.....How do you cure?

Click to expand...

koda7225 said:

If i rember correctly when i was doing soil it was water with nute mix once then 2 ph'd waterings then 1 nute mix then 2 ph'd rinse and repeate to finish.

Click to expand...