subs supersoil

Squonk

Squonk

Active Member
Hello all. I'm trying to troubleshoot a matter that I've been encountering with my crops during the latter stage of flowering. I'm relatively new at this and only grow once a year on a very small scale just for personal use. So please pardon my ignorance, as I'm still very much in a learning curve.

I've used Sub's recipe the last two years in a row and the plants absolutely THRIVE in it, except toward the latter half of the flowering stage. They first start fading about three weeks into the flowering stage. Very slight at first, but profound toward the end. At the same time the leaf tips start showing signs of nute burn, which gradually works its way up the leaf. Secondly the trichomes don't seem to reach their optimum potency in terms of cloudy vs clear. Some do turn cloudy, but a high percentage remain clear with little noticeable improvement over the last few weeks and days of flowering until I'm forced to harvest due to the plant fading out too much.

I realize that fading is normal during late flowering. But the symptoms of nute burn during late flowering have me puzzled. Also, just based on the ratio of cloudy/clear trichs at harvest I suspect I'm not getting full potency. I don't know whether anything can be done to postpone the fading, or even if that would have any benefit in optimizing the trichomes. Also, to me it seems counter intuitive to add more nutes or top dressing to reduce the fading, when at the same time there are symptoms of nute burn.

I'm using a 2x4 grow tent, two Platinum 300W LEDs, RO water only, Boogie Brew compost tea every two or three waterings. The grow tent and room are well ventilated and climate controlled. I only grow two plants at a time, each in a 10 gallon fabric pot. So overcrowding isn't an issue. The strains have been Barney's Farm Pineapple Chunk and Liberty Haze. Maybe it's the strains, not the soil...I dunno. :???:

Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Squonk said:
Hello all. I'm trying to troubleshoot a matter that I've been encountering with my crops during the latter stage of flowering. I'm relatively new at this and only grow once a year on a very small scale just for personal use. So please pardon my ignorance, as I'm still very much in a learning curve.

I've used Sub's recipe the last two years in a row and the plants absolutely THRIVE in it, except toward the latter half of the flowering stage. They first start fading about three weeks into the flowering stage. Very slight at first, but profound toward the end. At the same time the leaf tips start showing signs of nute burn, which gradually works its way up the leaf. Secondly the trichomes don't seem to reach their optimum potency in terms of cloudy vs clear. Some do turn cloudy, but a high percentage remain clear with little noticeable improvement over the last few weeks and days of flowering until I'm forced to harvest due to the plant fading out too much.

I realize that fading is normal during late flowering. But the symptoms of nute burn during late flowering have me puzzled. Also, just based on the ratio of cloudy/clear trichs at harvest I suspect I'm not getting full potency. I don't know whether anything can be done to postpone the fading, or even if that would have any benefit in optimizing the trichomes. Also, to me it seems counter intuitive to add more nutes or top dressing to reduce the fading, when at the same time there are symptoms of nute burn.

I'm using a 2x4 grow tent, two Platinum 300W LEDs, RO water only, Boogie Brew compost tea every two or three waterings. The grow tent and room are well ventilated and climate controlled. I only grow two plants at a time, each in a 10 gallon fabric pot. So overcrowding isn't an issue. The strains have been Barney's Farm Pineapple Chunk and Liberty Haze. Maybe it's the strains, not the soil...I dunno. :???:

Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately subs super soil wasn't developed by someone with actual horticulture experience, so it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm a little busy with work right now but I'll hop on later and give you some advice and then a better recipe that you can use going forward with future grows.
 
aus.jak

aus.jak

Member
hello people just want some opinions on lupin mulch wether its good or not around my plants it sez on the bag ensures beneficial bacteria an enhance soil diversity by adding vital soil microbes an minerals essential to plant growth
 
PentaBiker

PentaBiker

Active Member
Rasta Roy said:
Unfortunately subs super soil wasn't developed by someone with actual horticulture experience, so it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm a little busy with work right now but I'll hop on later and give you some advice and then a better recipe that you can use going forward with future grows.
Click to expand...
Any update for us, please? :)
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
PentaBiker said:
Any update for us, please? :)
Click to expand...
Lol yep, my apologies. This is a busy time of year for me.

A solid organic potting mix for cannabis or most high demand crops (tomatoes, peppers) doesn't have to follow a strict recipe it just has to follow a few principles. Lots of drainage, moisture retention without heavy compaction, microbiology, a component with readily available nutrients, other components that break down slowly (producing fulvic and humic acids, creating fungal networks, and providing a slow stream of nutrients throughout the grow).

First make the base of your mix, this is pretty easy and there are a couple different avenues you could take.

The most affordable but most labor is going from scratch. Make your mix even parts peat moss or coco coir/perlite or rice hulls/compost. When i say compost, Im talking your home made compost, worm castings, composted cow manure, or composted horse manure. Whatever is most available and affordable in your area.

then just add 1/4 cup per cubic feet (about seven gallons) with some to buffer ph. Dolomite lime or oyster shell flour are popular choices!

This is great for starting seeds in or planting very small plants.

an alternative to this base mix would be just buying a bale of promix and or other plain potting mix (something without amendments, no fox farm or ocean forest) and then adding compost to this. not quite half compost for everybit of promix but close wouldnt hurt.

You could add any all purpose organic fertilizer to this mix and be good to go. Im a fan of the down to earth mixes. the jobe and espoma mixes lean a little hard on cheaper ingredients like chicken manure and sulfate of potash. but theyll work too.

If youre in the game for the long run, or a large scale grower though, the biggest deal will be getting the components separately. This is my personal recommendation;

1/2 cup per cubic foot of:

neem seed meal
fish bone meal or bone meal
gypsum
kelp meal
crab shell meal

1/4 cup per cubic foot of:
alfalfa meal
langbeinite

A mix like that won't overload your soil with N, so you can plant directly into it without burning your roots, and as long as youve got good quality compost then your plant wont need any early fertilization. be advised that growing in containers is not conducive to a water only grow though. after about six weeks i would recommend a top dressing of your all purpose mix or 1/2 cup of neem seed meal or alfalfa meal and kelp with a couple handfuls of compost per plant.

avoid highly water soluble components like bat guano in your mixes. guano and liquid fish fertilizer are good to have on hand. instead of top dressing like above you can make a tea with the guano to water your plants or use the liquid fish fert.

after growing reamend your mix with more compost, some more aeration, and the amendments above. cut your ratios in half unless youre growing in small ass five gallon pots or something.

and remember bigger roots, bigger fruits. use the biggest pots you can in flower and always repot into fresh soil before you get root bound before you reach the flowering stage.
 
Tyleb173rd

Tyleb173rd

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Lol yep, my apologies. This is a busy time of year for me.

A solid organic potting mix for cannabis or most high demand crops (tomatoes, peppers) doesn't have to follow a strict recipe it just has to follow a few principles. Lots of drainage, moisture retention without heavy compaction, microbiology, a component with readily available nutrients, other components that break down slowly (producing fulvic and humic acids, creating fungal networks, and providing a slow stream of nutrients throughout the grow).

First make the base of your mix, this is pretty easy and there are a couple different avenues you could take.

The most affordable but most labor is going from scratch. Make your mix even parts peat moss or coco coir/perlite or rice hulls/compost. When i say compost, Im talking your home made compost, worm castings, composted cow manure, or composted horse manure. Whatever is most available and affordable in your area.

then just add 1/4 cup per cubic feet (about seven gallons) with some to buffer ph. Dolomite lime or oyster shell flour are popular choices!

This is great for starting seeds in or planting very small plants.

an alternative to this base mix would be just buying a bale of promix and or other plain potting mix (something without amendments, no fox farm or ocean forest) and then adding compost to this. not quite half compost for everybit of promix but close wouldnt hurt.

You could add any all purpose organic fertilizer to this mix and be good to go. Im a fan of the down to earth mixes. the jobe and espoma mixes lean a little hard on cheaper ingredients like chicken manure and sulfate of potash. but theyll work too.

If youre in the game for the long run, or a large scale grower though, the biggest deal will be getting the components separately. This is my personal recommendation;

1/2 cup per cubic foot of:

neem seed meal
fish bone meal or bone meal
gypsum
kelp meal
crab shell meal

1/4 cup per cubic foot of:
alfalfa meal
langbeinite

A mix like that won't overload your soil with N, so you can plant directly into it without burning your roots, and as long as youve got good quality compost then your plant wont need any early fertilization. be advised that growing in containers is not conducive to a water only grow though. after about six weeks i would recommend a top dressing of your all purpose mix or 1/2 cup of neem seed meal or alfalfa meal and kelp with a couple handfuls of compost per plant.

avoid highly water soluble components like bat guano in your mixes. guano and liquid fish fertilizer are good to have on hand. instead of top dressing like above you can make a tea with the guano to water your plants or use the liquid fish fert.

after growing reamend your mix with more compost, some more aeration, and the amendments above. cut your ratios in half unless youre growing in small ass five gallon pots or something.

and remember bigger roots, bigger fruits. use the biggest pots you can in flower and always repot into fresh soil before you get root bound before you reach the flowering stage.
Click to expand...
Best post of the day.....
 
tripleD

tripleD

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Lol yep, my apologies. This is a busy time of year for me.

A solid organic potting mix for cannabis or most high demand crops (tomatoes, peppers) doesn't have to follow a strict recipe it just has to follow a few principles. Lots of drainage, moisture retention without heavy compaction, microbiology, a component with readily available nutrients, other components that break down slowly (producing fulvic and humic acids, creating fungal networks, and providing a slow stream of nutrients throughout the grow).

First make the base of your mix, this is pretty easy and there are a couple different avenues you could take.

The most affordable but most labor is going from scratch. Make your mix even parts peat moss or coco coir/perlite or rice hulls/compost. When i say compost, Im talking your home made compost, worm castings, composted cow manure, or composted horse manure. Whatever is most available and affordable in your area.

then just add 1/4 cup per cubic feet (about seven gallons) with some to buffer ph. Dolomite lime or oyster shell flour are popular choices!

This is great for starting seeds in or planting very small plants.

an alternative to this base mix would be just buying a bale of promix and or other plain potting mix (something without amendments, no fox farm or ocean forest) and then adding compost to this. not quite half compost for everybit of promix but close wouldnt hurt.

You could add any all purpose organic fertilizer to this mix and be good to go. Im a fan of the down to earth mixes. the jobe and espoma mixes lean a little hard on cheaper ingredients like chicken manure and sulfate of potash. but theyll work too.

If youre in the game for the long run, or a large scale grower though, the biggest deal will be getting the components separately. This is my personal recommendation;

1/2 cup per cubic foot of:

neem seed meal
fish bone meal or bone meal
gypsum
kelp meal
crab shell meal

1/4 cup per cubic foot of:
alfalfa meal
langbeinite

A mix like that won't overload your soil with N, so you can plant directly into it without burning your roots, and as long as youve got good quality compost then your plant wont need any early fertilization. be advised that growing in containers is not conducive to a water only grow though. after about six weeks i would recommend a top dressing of your all purpose mix or 1/2 cup of neem seed meal or alfalfa meal and kelp with a couple handfuls of compost per plant.

avoid highly water soluble components like bat guano in your mixes. guano and liquid fish fertilizer are good to have on hand. instead of top dressing like above you can make a tea with the guano to water your plants or use the liquid fish fert.

after growing reamend your mix with more compost, some more aeration, and the amendments above. cut your ratios in half unless youre growing in small ass five gallon pots or something.

and remember bigger roots, bigger fruits. use the biggest pots you can in flower and always repot into fresh soil before you get root bound before you reach the flowering stage.
Click to expand...
What size pots would you use for Auto's?? I've been using 5gal smart pots, but someone actually suggested that I use 15gal....that seems a bit much to me.
 
tripleD

tripleD

Well-Known Member
As someone who just read through ALL 24 PAGES of this thread and who does not know SUB or RASTA, and who has never used SUBS SOIL or RASTAS RECIPE, I came away with this-
While I appreciate the time and energy that both men have dedicated to helping others on this forum, I do NOT understand what ALL THE DAMN DRAMA IS ABOUT?????
1) SUB does NOT owe ANYBODY anything!! Use his soil, or don't use it! IT'S just that fkn SIMPLE....if you disagree w what he says then say so, explain why, and then LET THE READERS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, but leave the poor guy alone, unless you can prove that he has an agenda that's some how nefarious.
2) RASTA has issues with some of SUBS advice (especially the layering vs mixing advice) and while I appreciate RASTAS input, I think it's possible to state one's objection to someone else's advice without ATTACKING and constantly putting the other person down.
3) From what I've read, SUB clearly states that he doesn't know exactly why the supersoil works, so why do a few of you spend sooooo much fkn time berating SUB over it?? I have a recipe for neutralizing skunk odor, but I have NO IDEA WHY IT WORKS, and if I offered it on here for FREE and then had people bombarding me with questions about how it works, and criticizing me for it, I'd tell you to stop using it if you weren't happy with the results, and then if you kept pestering me about it I'd tell you to GOOOO PHUUUUK YOURSELF!!
4) I DEEPLY APPRECIATE ANYONE who is willing to take the time to try to help others, even if I disagree with them, and while I'm sure RASTA means well, and is just trying to educate us dummies, I definitely think this can be achieved without ALL THE NEGATIVITY toward a fellow member who from what I've read, was just trying to help.....

Peace & Love TOO ALL!!
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
tripleD said:
What size pots would you use for Auto's?? I've been using 5gal smart pots, but someone actually suggested that I use 15gal....that seems a bit much to me.
Click to expand...
My personal grow is in 100 gallon beds, and the grows I've been paid to construct and consult on all grow in 60 to 150 gallon troughs...so my pot recommendations tend to be far from conservative lol.

I do not grow autos so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure on how to relate my experience to yours.

I can only say if it is your intention to shoot for a water only style grow, than five gallon pots will be to small. I would also recommend a 15 or 10 gallon pot.

But I don't know about autos since you've got a limited growth period. it might be better to have a smaller pot where the roots fill out quicker and then you just feed a liquid solution? I've been raising mothers and doing clones my whole grow career, I apologize my knowledge of autos is pretty stunted. I can only tell you why I do what I do, I hope it helps.

basically, say my basement height caps out at 10 feet, so im never gonna grow my plants higher than 6 feet.

I can grow the same two six foot plants in a 7 gallon pot, or a 15 gallon pot. Their root balls are where the difference is. The smaller pot will want to have the same size root ball as the bigger pot, since it has less pot to move around in, it will fill in every crevice of space in the soil and eat up all the available nutrients. You can top dress or liquid feed after this, it's a simple solution. But the plant in the bigger pot, the roots will have more soil to get into, so your nutrients in the soil tend to last longer. highly soluble anions like nitrogen still tend to need some reapplication, but a good base of compost, along with some neem cake seems to take the N a lot further.

But again, for autos you might be better off not following my approach. something with more water soluble nutes might be better suited to the limited growth time line.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
tripleD said:
As someone who just read through ALL 24 PAGES of this thread and who does not know SUB or RASTA, and who has never used SUBS SOIL or RASTAS RECIPE, I came away with this-
While I appreciate the time and energy that both men have dedicated to helping others on this forum, I do NOT understand what ALL THE DAMN DRAMA IS ABOUT?????
1) SUB does NOT owe ANYBODY anything!! Use his soil, or don't use it! IT'S just that fkn SIMPLE....if you disagree w what he says then say so, explain why, and then LET THE READERS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, but leave the poor guy alone, unless you can prove that he has an agenda that's some how nefarious.
2) RASTA has issues with some of SUBS advice (especially the layering vs mixing advice) and while I appreciate RASTAS input, I think it's possible to state one's objection to someone else's advice without ATTACKING and constantly putting the other person down.
3) From what I've read, SUB clearly states that he doesn't know exactly why the supersoil works, so why do a few of you spend sooooo much fkn time berating SUB over it?? I have a recipe for neutralizing skunk odor, but I have NO IDEA WHY IT WORKS, and if I offered it on here for FREE and then had people bombarding me with questions about how it works, and criticizing me for it, I'd tell you to stop using it if you weren't happy with the results, and then if you kept pestering me about it I'd tell you to GOOOO PHUUUUK YOURSELF!!
4) I DEEPLY APPRECIATE ANYONE who is willing to take the time to try to help others, even if I disagree with them, and while I'm sure RASTA means well, and is just trying to educate us dummies, I definitely think this can be achieved without ALL THE NEGATIVITY toward a fellow member who from what I've read, was just trying to help.....

Peace & Love TOO ALL!!
Click to expand...
In all fairness, at some point on those 24 pages I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I never knew my father, and am a real bastard. Lol.
 
tripleD

tripleD

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
My personal grow is in 100 gallon beds, and the grows I've been paid to construct and consult on all grow in 60 to 150 gallon troughs...so my pot recommendations tend to be far from conservative lol.

I do not grow autos so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure on how to relate my experience to yours.

I can only say if it is your intention to shoot for a water only style grow, than five gallon pots will be to small. I would also recommend a 15 or 10 gallon pot.

But I don't know about autos since you've got a limited growth period. it might be better to have a smaller pot where the roots fill out quicker and then you just feed a liquid solution? I've been raising mothers and doing clones my whole grow career, I apologize my knowledge of autos is pretty stunted. I can only tell you why I do what I do, I hope it helps.

basically, say my basement height caps out at 10 feet, so im never gonna grow my plants higher than 6 feet.

I can grow the same two six foot plants in a 7 gallon pot, or a 15 gallon pot. Their root balls are where the difference is. The smaller pot will want to have the same size root ball as the bigger pot, since it has less pot to move around in, it will fill in every crevice of space in the soil and eat up all the available nutrients. You can top dress or liquid feed after this, it's a simple solution. But the plant in the bigger pot, the roots will have more soil to get into, so your nutrients in the soil tend to last longer. highly soluble anions like nitrogen still tend to need some reapplication, but a good base of compost, along with some neem cake seems to take the N a lot further.

But again, for autos you might be better off not following my approach. something with more water soluble nutes might be better suited to the limited growth time line.
Click to expand...
Yea, I only grow 3-4 plants once a year for myself and I've been supplementing General Organics into my FFOF/FFHF mix after about 3-4weeks. I guess I'll try a 10gal next time. Thanks for the info!
 
mastermind303033

mastermind303033

Well-Known Member
OOOkaaayyy so... I've read about three or four pages in and four pages back and then ended up in my local shop hunting for the basics of SS and ended up getting all sorts of shit that now im uncertain on how much of what to add or if I need more or less ingredients. I'm new to organics so I am going to list what I have and hopefully one or all of you can chime in at any time with your input and then I will suck your egos dick.

List of shit I gots:
- Epsoma Bat Guano 1.25LBs
- Epsoma Blood Meal 3LBs
- Epsoma Bone Meal 4LBs
- Epsoma Potash 6LBs
- Epsoma Alfalfa Meal 3LBs
- Epsoma Kelp Meal 4LBs
- Epsom Salt Plus 5Lbs
- Hydrated Lime 2LBs
- 6QTs Worm Castings
- 3CuFt Roots Organic Soil

NOOOOW...I am well aware that I shouldnt just dump all this together and let 'er cook. I know SOME of these ingredients I many need more of and Some I need very little of and that I may be missing some ingredients. I am hoping that someone or ones can please tell me based on what I have listed in what proportions I should mix and what I may be missing or what may not be useful at all. I humbly thank any and all of you in advance.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
mastermind303033 said:
OOOkaaayyy so... I've read about three or four pages in and four pages back and then ended up in my local shop hunting for the basics of SS and ended up getting all sorts of shit that now im uncertain on how much of what to add or if I need more or less ingredients. I'm new to organics so I am going to list what I have and hopefully one or all of you can chime in at any time with your input and then I will suck your egos dick.

List of shit I gots:
- Epsoma Bat Guano 1.25LBs
- Epsoma Blood Meal 3LBs
- Epsoma Bone Meal 4LBs
- Epsoma Potash 6LBs
- Epsoma Alfalfa Meal 3LBs
- Epsoma Kelp Meal 4LBs
- Epsom Salt Plus 5Lbs
- Hydrated Lime 2LBs
- 6QTs Worm Castings
- 3CuFt Roots Organic Soil

NOOOOW...I am well aware that I shouldnt just dump all this together and let 'er cook. I know SOME of these ingredients I many need more of and Some I need very little of and that I may be missing some ingredients. I am hoping that someone or ones can please tell me based on what I have listed in what proportions I should mix and what I may be missing or what may not be useful at all. I humbly thank any and all of you in advance.
Click to expand...
Definitely take back the hydrated lime right away as it will be of literally no use to you. You bought a soil that is already full of amendments and ready to use so don't mix your amendments with them at all. Dont do this at first cause your soil is good to go but Every four weeks top dress your plants with

1/4 cup of alfalfa meal, blood meal, potash, kelp meal per plant. Maybe 1/8 cup of the Epsom salts every other time you top dress unless you have a mag deficiency then up the frequency of application

Return every thing else to the store and spend the money on a good barrel aged sour beer or German lambic.
 
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