Soil Ph & Water Ph Problems

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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
I am currently on week of my seedlings little to none change it size. I planted them straight into a 7 gal fabric pot. I checked the soil ph and it's in high 7's to low-mid 8's. Also been using well water out the ground and checked the ph on it and it's running high 7 to mid 8. I just got a ph meter back yesterday the one I had was not to accurate. I'm using a organic soil/coco coir/perlite mix. I tried adding a small amount of vinegar with no change whatsoever, I've also used coffee grounds raw & diluted mix. I just received yesterday in the mail [true organics soil acidifier ph down]. It's showing 18% cal, 24% sulfur & 82% gypsum, I mixed some up I water to try & dissolve it quicker to work faster maybe. The plants have started turning a pale yellowish/green with the cotyledons yellow. I'm assuming a nute lockout. Any suggestions?
 

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Phytoplankton

Well-Known Member
Is your soil a commercial mix? If so, you should not mess with the ph. PH the water and nutes going in, don’t mess with the soil, don’t chase runoff. With everything you did, I hope they survive. Could be a lockout, could be the Frankensoil you’ve created.
 
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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Phytoplankton said:
Is your soil a commercial mix? If so, you should not mess with the ph. PH the water and nutes going in, don’t mess with the soil, don’t chase runoff. With everything you did, I hope they survive. Could be a lockout, could be the Frankensoil you’ve created.
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It was sum organic soil from Walmart this year since all the hydro stores closed down within 100 miles. I know I've never had this problem out of the years in the past. Even my tap water is in the high 7's. I thought about maybe flushing with adjusted ph levels but then I worry of maybe overwatering? The well water I usually use is 7.7s ph with ppm 150. There has also been around 4 or 5 rain showers come through so I was hoping that may adjust the soil ph. I started a few more seeds in just a coco/perlite mix to see if maybe it's the soil. Any suggestions on soil also? I usually use roots organics, but like I said it's unavailable now. I watered yesterday with ph around 6.
 
Hook Daddy

Hook Daddy

Well-Known Member
This is a good example of why you start seedlings in a small pot, then pot up as you go. You’re chasing a ph problem in soil when there probably isn’t one, the soil should buffer ph on its own. The issue is you want to soak the whole pot then let it dry back, but you can’t because the plant is too small and can’t absorb the water before drowning in it unable to get the oxygen it requires. A smaller pot dries out faster, giving the plant a much better chance of thriving. You can go with a big pot to start, but it’s more likely to be a struggle. You can try bottom watering by setting the pots in a tray of water an inch deep and let the water absorb into the soil and up, once the pots are heavy remove them and wait, don’t do anything else. Post pics in 4 days and perhaps repeat.
 
ProPheT 216

ProPheT 216

Well-Known Member
I would assume the soil is to hot for the seedlings. Try to keep them misted for water and let them get a foothold without the soil getting to wet. Also such a large pot is hard to control water in for such a tiny plant. I wouldn't worry about ph, at this stage they hardly need any nutrients, just ph your water to 6.4 and let time.do it's thing.

Next time you could dig out a solo cup sized area in the middle of the pot and fill with something like coco. Plant your seed there to protect it from the immediate contact with nutrients, and give the roots a place to start to colonize
 
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Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Your medias CEC is not filled yet. This is one case where a very high EC feed is needed, probably a couple of high EC feedings. Once they green up cut the EC back, once the CEC is filled it will not need the high EC anymore. CEC is cation exchange capacity.
 
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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
So I just picked up some fox farms sledgehammer you think I should flush out everything & carefully try to pot down a few sizes. I also picked up some ph down by fox farms & some ocean forest soil. I have some trifecta coming in tomorrow. I just found a nursery that carries all this stuff. Wish I would have knew this 3 weeks ago. Yea I've never tried starting it a pot this size it's over my head I see especially this is my only 3rd outdoor grow.b
 
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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Hook Daddy said:
This is a good example of why you start seedlings in a small pot, then pot up as you go. You’re chasing a ph problem in soil when there probably isn’t one, the soil should buffer ph on its own. The issue is you want to soak the whole pot then let it dry back, but you can’t because the plant is too small and can’t absorb the water before drowning in it unable to get the oxygen it requires. A smaller pot dries out faster, giving the plant a much better chance of thriving. You can go with a big pot to start, but it’s more likely to be a struggle. You can try bottom watering by setting the pots in a tray of water an inch deep and let the water absorb into the soil and up, once the pots are heavy remove them and wait, don’t do anything else. Post pics in 4 days and perhaps repeat.
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Yea I've learned this the hard way. Oh I've barely watered it in the past 3 weeks because it keeps raining on it everytime it gets about dry. I figured they would dry out faster since it's fabric pots. I went around the edges trying to turn the soil from the bottom up to dry it out. I have one in a 3 inch peat pot buried into the 7gal fab bag I slowly lifted it out and seen the roots starting to come through. So it seems to be growing roots but not plant size.
 
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Phytoplankton

Well-Known Member
Greenthumb0088 said:
So I just picked up some fox farms sledgehammer you think I should flush out everything & carefully try to pot down a few sizes. I also picked up some ph down by fox farms & some ocean forest soil. I have some trifecta coming in tomorrow. I just found a nursery that carries all this stuff. Wish I would have knew this 3 weeks ago. Yea I've never tried starting it a pot this size it's over my head I see especially this is my only 3rd outdoor grow.b
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No, don't do it, sledgehammer, among other things, is for removing built up salts from syntheitc nutrients. All you'll do is wash out the nutrients. In plants that small, there's almost no chance of a salt build up. The FFOF is good soil, you could add another 10%-15% perlite, but other than that, don't mess with it, it has enough nutes for 2-4 weeks. Some say it's too hot for seedlings, I have not found that to be the case. I plant directly in FFOF without issues, but if you want get some seedling soil, use it in a solo or nursery cup, then transplant into the FFOF when it hits 4-5 nodes.
 
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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Jjgrow420 said:
What did you check the soils pH with?
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I checked it with a vivosun ph meter, I made up a slurry. The water I've been using is PH 7.80s to low 8 the PPM was 158 & EC 316, it's well water. The tap water is PH 7.6 ,PPM 44, EC 88. These are all numbers without any adjustment as far as PH'd Down. So should I try to transplant down into maybe a cup or 1 gal pot ,flush them out? Then let it dry out then re-nute. I really wanna get them out that cheap soil mix into Ocean Forest. Yea? No? Maybe? I have the trifecta mycorrhizae coming in today maybe add a bit of that? Idk these seedlings have threw me in the ringer this year.
 
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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Phytoplankton said:
No, don't do it, sledgehammer, among other things, is for removing built up salts from syntheitc nutrients. All you'll do is wash out the nutrients. In plants that small, there's almost no chance of a salt build up. The FFOF is good soil, you could add another 10%-15% perlite, but other than that, don't mess with it, it has enough nutes for 2-4 weeks. Some say it's too hot for seedlings, I have not found that to be the case. I plant directly in FFOF without issues, but if you want get some seedling soil, use it in a solo or nursery cup, then transplant into the FFOF when it hits 4-5 nodes.
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So do you think I should transplant them out of the 7 gallon pots to maybe some little peat pots. I have 3 inch ones around. I mean at this point I don't see if it would hurt. They are going on 4 weeks old and been the same size. I've started a few more seeds in cups and the peat pots. I started them in ffof with just a cut off bottle over the top. They looked healthy now I noticed one is laying over on its side. I feel like they are getting to much sun or something I have them sitting in a window for now. Man I've never had the troubles as this year. But for my other in those 7 gal bags they are getting atleast 13 hours of sunlight, temps have been in the 90's with humidity in the 80-90%. I figured them bags would be dried out but still holding alot of moisture.
 
Hook Daddy

Hook Daddy

Well-Known Member
If you’re going to try and put them in smaller pots I would keep as much soil around the roots intact as possible, going with at least a 4” pot, maybe a 6”. Will still be easier than the 7 gal pots, but I hate messing with the roots of seedlings if I don’t have to. You can try getting the fabric pots out of the rain before they get wet so they can dry out a bit if possible and just ride it out, if the pots are on the ground get them up so they don’t soak up water from the ground as well. Either way look at it as a learning experience, give it a shot, if it doesn’t work out pop some more beans.
 
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Phytoplankton

Well-Known Member
Greenthumb0088 said:
So do you think I should transplant them out of the 7 gallon pots to maybe some little peat pots. I have 3 inch ones around. I mean at this point I don't see if it would hurt. They are going on 4 weeks old and been the same size. I've started a few more seeds in cups and the peat pots. I started them in ffof with just a cut off bottle over the top. They looked healthy now I noticed one is laying over on its side. I feel like they are getting to much sun or something I have them sitting in a window for now. Man I've never had the troubles as this year. But for my other in those 7 gal bags they are getting atleast 13 hours of sunlight, temps have been in the 90's with humidity in the 80-90%. I figured them bags would be dried out but still holding alot of moisture.
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At this point I don't think it could really hurt much, but I like @Hook Daddy idea of 6 inch pots and preserve what root you can.
 
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Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Hook Daddy said:
If you’re going to try and put them in smaller pots I would keep as much soil around the roots intact as possible, going with at least a 4” pot, maybe a 6”. Will still be easier than the 7 gal pots, but I hate messing with the roots of seedlings if I don’t have to. You can try getting the fabric pots out of the rain before they get wet so they can dry out a bit if possible and just ride it out, if the pots are on the ground get them up so they don’t soak up water from the ground as well. Either way look at it as a learning experience, give it a shot, if it doesn’t work out pop some more beans.
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Thanks for the advice. I just transplanted into some FFOF with a little extra perlite. The roots looked good still they were longer than I expected I'd say around 5-6 inches long. I stirred the soil in those 7gal bags just to try and dry it out quicker. I did PH down my water and gave each a little bit to just help those roots some plus I'm goin out of town and it's hot today 92° & 52% as of now. So maybe later when I get back later on you think I should maybe put some mycorrhizae on the top of the soil? I went ahead and popped 4 more just incase.
 
Jjgrow420

Jjgrow420

Well-Known Member
Greenthumb0088 said:
I checked it with a vivosun ph meter, I made up a slurry. The water I've been using is PH 7.80s to low 8 the PPM was 158 & EC 316, it's well water. The tap water is PH 7.6 ,PPM 44, EC 88. These are all numbers without any adjustment as far as PH'd Down. So should I try to transplant down into maybe a cup or 1 gal pot ,flush them out? Then let it dry out then re-nute. I really wanna get them out that cheap soil mix into Ocean Forest. Yea? No? Maybe? I have the trifecta mycorrhizae coming in today maybe add a bit of that? Idk these seedlings have threw me in the ringer this year.
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Cheap meters give off readings.
That's not an accurate way of getting the ph.
A ph pen with a soil probe is the only truly accurate way
Otherwise you're just chasing dragons here man, which is what I think is the problem from the get go.
There's such thing as over loving a plant. Remember bugs bunny?
Although pretty racist and prejudice we still learned some good lessons from the toons.
tumblr_me0y8nv6zU1rip3xvo1_400.gif

You shouldn't have problems like that off the hop. It means you're doing too much and you're doing the wrong things.
 
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Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
My god … there is ZERO reason to buy this and that over a stupid seedling. This is not a science experiment. No need to over complicate things. All you have to do is get a simple solo cup / fill it up with FFOF soil or similar potting mix.

No add-ins. Nothing else.
That simple amount of “ precharged “ soil will carry ALL of the feeding / buffering for that young seedling.
On tap water …. FFS.

You do not need to measure ANYTHING.

THEN …. Once seedling has managed to accelerate in growth / leaves wide over cup … transplant it as a stronger plant into that larger container you show. That alone will produce a wider root mass since solo cup formed a dense root ball in cup.

FFOF is prebuffered- No PH adjustments necessary.
You chase your tail when you chase ph. It already has oyster shell / buffering components. I use water straight from tap. I do not ph.

Think about it …. Do you PH the water when you water the grass ? Do you PH the water when you give it to your ratty cat ? You literally could PEE in cup and it will still grow.

Keep things simple. Stop buying bottles of unnecessary nonsense.

IMG_2623.jpeg16697C25-9938-48BB-8320-B6FADBD56447.jpeg
 
G

Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Budzbuddha said:
My god … there is ZERO reason to buy this and that over a stupid seedling. This is not a science experiment. No need to over complicate things. All you have to do is get a simple solo cup / fill it up with FFOF soil or similar potting mix.

No add-ins. Nothing else.
That simple amount of “ precharged “ soil will carry ALL of the feeding / buffering for that young seedling.
On tap water …. FFS.

You do not need to measure ANYTHING.

THEN …. Once seedling has managed to accelerate in growth / leaves wide over cup … transplant it as a stronger plant into that larger container you show. That alone will produce a wider root mass since solo cup formed a dense root ball in cup.

FFOF is prebuffered- No PH adjustments necessary.
You chase your tail when you chase ph. It already has oyster shell / buffering components. I use water straight from tap. I do not ph.

Think about it …. Do you PH the water when you water the grass ? Do you PH the water when you give it to your ratty cat ? You literally could PEE in cup and it will still grow.

Keep things simple. Stop buying bottles of unnecessary nonsense.

View attachment 5400273View attachment 5400274
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I was thinking the same thing. I use the same water on my tomato plants and they are perfectly fine. I've used this water for over 10 years. I didn't add anything to the 7 gal fabric pots at first except worm castings. Bc the soil had still a small amount of npk that should carry the whole seedling. I've never had to ph the water before. I figured it was from starting straight in 7 gal and being saturated from rain. I did add some blood & bone meal around the outsides of the pot after the 2nd week. They grew a little then, now they just stopped. I added a small amount of some organic ph down for acidic plants I mixed it down towards the bottom from sides hoping to lower soil ph. It's over 8 ph. Never in my life have I had this much trouble with any plant. Yea them bottles ain't cheap just to waste. I started two new in ffof and 2 more germ now. I'm about over the seedlings, I could have bought clones instead of this headache.
 
G

Greenthumb0088

Active Member
Jjgrow420 said:
Cheap meters give off readings.
That's not an accurate way of getting the ph.
A ph pen with a soil probe is the only truly accurate way
Otherwise you're just chasing dragons here man, which is what I think is the problem from the get go.
There's such thing as over loving a plant. Remember bugs bunny?
Although pretty racist and prejudice we still learned some good lessons from the toons.
View attachment 5400272

You shouldn't have problems like that off the hop. It means you're doing too much and you're doing the wrong things.
Click to expand...
Whats a good brand for fair price? Yeah I think they are in a extreme stunt state.
 
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