So how many people use CO2 on their grows, and whats the results like?

RedCarpetMatches

RedCarpetMatches

Well-Known Member
I wanted to go with a two burner, until I read horror stories. I'd love the extra heat and co2 in an LED tent. It gets really cold hurr in da Midwest. Might have to put the LEDs on the back burner *snort* until summer.
 
rcpilot04401

rcpilot04401

Well-Known Member
I think from now on I'm going to be asking Mr. Ganja there all my questions...on all his post, the guy really know what he's talking about...you goto work every day wearing a lab coat friend?
 
JonnyAppleSeed420

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
slowbus said:
I can't help you chucky.No wilting here,ever.Wanna fight about it ? Either fuck off or just put me on ignore you huge fucking douche bag
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You know you are on the right track when o'l Chucky steps in with his half brained schemes and ideas and whines like a little girl. Honestly if I were you I would dial every other aspect of your grows first then experiment, when used properly it will create more work for the grower. A baseline is critical to gauge any new factor you bring into your garden. JAS
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
JonnyAppleSeed420 said:
You know you are on the right track when o'l Chucky steps in with his half brained schemes and ideas and whines like a little girl. Honestly if I were you I would dial every other aspect of your grows first then experiment, when used properly it will create more work for the grower. A baseline is critical to gauge any new factor you bring into your garden. JAS
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You know this guy is butt-hurt when he follows me around like a little child,lmfao
 
JonnyAppleSeed420

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
spandy said:
Actually, you are wrong.

A sealed room is a sealed room. If you are opening up for fresh air to enter the room in any fashion, it's no longer a sealed room. The point of a sealed room is to NEVER have any air exchange, all systems are internal.

A sealed room has no intake or exhaust. Now, someone might say venting your lights with sealed hoods is, but it's not because those are a sealed system in themselves and that air coming in and out of the hoods never actually enters the room or removes any air from the room, again, because both systems are sealed separate from one another.

In a sealed room, you control humidity internally with a dehumidifier/humidifier. You don't have to exchange air to accomplish this.

Temperatures can be controlled in a variety of ways without opening the room. Mini splits, water cooling, etc. All of which no air is exchanged in the room.

Co2 is controlled with some type of in room device, co2 burner, bottles, etc. Lots of options here as well without having to exchange air and dump all that co2 out of your room.




Do you even know WTF you are talking about? I know I do, and years of experience doing it without exchanging any air WHAT SO EVER. The only air exchange I get is when I enter the room through the sealed door, but that is nominal and not part of a normal operating system, but maintenance is a must.

But this school of thought that you have to exchange air is not only completely wrong, but its retarded to even attempt to argue.
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Stale air has little benefit when compared to cycled fresh air.
I feel sorry for your girls...if this is a true statement. You put a dozen or so five foot girls in a sealed room 10x 20 or smaller without ventilation they will NOT produce DICK! If your growing spindly little shit or a few girls in a huge room...O.K. maybe.. You obviously don't grow on the scale as we do or you would laugh at this approach like we all are tonight! JAS
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
JonnyAppleSeed420 said:
Stale air has little benefit when compared to cycled fresh air.
I feel sorry for your girls...if this is a true statement. You put a dozen or so five foot girls in a sealed room 10x 20 or smaller without ventilation they will NOT produce DICK! If your growing spindly little shit or a few girls in a huge room...O.K. maybe.. You obviously don't grow on the scale as we do or you would laugh at this approach like we all are tonight! JAS
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you're an idiot.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
FilthyFletch said:
I use co2 in all my grows. It does help shave a bit of flowering time off and it does add a lot to your yeild. Also makes your buds nice and dense. I use it in 4x8 tents and 4x4 tents from 20lb co2 tanks. 1 20 lb co2 tank does 1 flower cycle in a 4x8 tent. If your gonna use a timer it has to be a minue cule timer or better as the injections should last only 30 seconds or minute. You wanna keep the ppm at 1500 ppm or slightly higher. Temps should be around 80 degrees F. Co2 only during lights on. I run my co2 with a ppm controller so it will read the air ppm and use only as needed. I vent old air out and frsh air in twice during lights on using timers and automatic dampers to close off vents when not in use. Have fans down low blowing up as co2 is heavier then air and sinks so low fans suck it from down low and blow it up and it falls back to the plants.I would say I see an average of a 30% or better yeild increase with co2. Make sure the tank you get can be certifed and hasnt expired or you ll pay for recertification costs or need to find a tank swap store as they have to be certified and stamped to be refilled.Cost me about $20 to fill a 20lb tank. I use co2 burners in larger areas burning natural gas as I hook them into a gas line so no need to refill propane tanks.
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Why certify the tank? When you exchange it for a full one, your certified tank is gone. Certifying a tank is a waste of money and cost as much as the tank.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
Why certify the tank? When you exchange it for a full one, your certified tank is gone. Certifying a tank is a waste of money and cost as much as the tank.
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i have an aluminum tank, they refill it every time, i bought it new. I paid $25 to have it re certified for 5 more years.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
What's stale air? I'm confused now...
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What this idiot fails to understand is that an open room vents air in and out to bring in fresh C02. Not fresh oxygen. That is the hardest thing for him to understand. YOU DO NOT NEED AIR EXCHANGES WHEN SUPPLEMENTING C02. I mean really, it is how the earth became a place where humans could live and this idiot wants to dispute it,LMFAO.


HEY, SIR IDIOT, plants absorb c02 and produce oxygen, you breath oxygen, you fuckin dumbshit.
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
Regardless of everything and no matter how you do it if you add co2 to your grow(when the lights are on) you can increase the yield by as much as 40%. Mj does breath oxygen when the lights are off. The oxygen being produced in the sealed room during the light cycle is obviously enough to get the plants through the dark cycle or this guy wouldn't be able to get away with it. The best crop and the quikest crop I ever had I generated co2 into the grow via woodstove which was also the central heating for the building.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
AGAIN< WATCH THE VIDEO IF YOU ARE STUPID LIKE JOHNNY SIR GANGA!!! [video=youtube;4jkkCDUhpNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jkkCDUhpNI[/video]
 
RedCarpetMatches

RedCarpetMatches

Well-Known Member
Chuck do you have an elementary school version with music...it helps me better understand. I'm no expert, but common sense tells me the air will never get "stale" as the plants are using up the continually released co2 and breathing out oxygen during the day and vice versa at night.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
RedCarpetMatches said:
Chuck do you have an elementary school version with music...it helps me better understand. I'm no expert, but common sense tells me the air will never get "stale" as the plants are using up the continually released co2 and breathing out oxygen during the day and vice versa at night.
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correct, i didn't invent it, just understand it and use it.:joint:
 
JonnyAppleSeed420

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
a mongo frog said:
What's stale air? I'm confused now...
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O.K. I will clear the air...so to speak. With these other comments I can see how you might be confused. Sealed rooms = 100% control of environmental operations, Plants require air, water, food, and light. Air is required for the O2 and Co2, lessen one of these and the plant stalls, this is where a fresh air exchange is REQUIRED for the operation of a sealed room, anything else is just an attempt at a SEALED room. Most of these guys here have never seen an actual sealed room, what they think is sealed...well is a poor attempt at it. Its actually quite easy to control all aspects and not waste ant C02 proper timing on ventilation component's will eliminate any wasting people talk abut. Read some of their points over a little closer and you will see they are just pissed that what they call a sealed room isn't. actually. All rooms have to have a door for access, so as I was told here it must not be a sealed room then? Logical...I guess...to someone that no's little and has a big mouth. JAS
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
JonnyAppleSeed420 said:
O.K. I will clear the air...so to speak. With these other comments I can see how you might be confused. Sealed rooms = 100% control of environmental operations, Plants require air, water, food, and light. Air is required for the O2 and Co2, lessen one of these and the plant stalls, this is where a fresh air exchange is REQUIRED for the operation of a sealed room, anything else is just an attempt at a SEALED room. Most of these guys here have never seen an actual sealed room, what they think is sealed...well is a poor attempt at it. Its actually quite easy to control all aspects and not waste ant C02 proper timing on ventilation component's will eliminate any wasting people talk abut. Read some of their points over a little closer and you will see they are just pissed that what they call a sealed room isn't. actually. All rooms have to have a door for access, so as I was told here it must not be a sealed room then? Logical...I guess...to someone that no's little and has a big mouth. JAS
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STFU dumbass, you have nothing but bullshit, you don't even understand basic grow room stuff. keep typing and making yourself look even more stupid.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
To photosynthesise, plants must absorb CO[SUB]2[/SUB] from the atmosphere. However, this comes at a price: while stomata are open to allow CO[SUB]2[/SUB] to enter, water can evaporate.[SUP][29][/SUP] Water is lost much faster than CO[SUB]2[/SUB] is absorbed, so plants need to replace it, and have developed systems to transport water from the moist soil to the site of photosynthesis.[SUP][29][/SUP] Early plants sucked water between the walls of their cells, then evolved the ability to control water loss (and CO[SUB]2[/SUB]acquisition) through the use of a waterproof cuticle perforated by stomata. Specialised water transport tissues soon evolved in the form of hydroids, tracheids, then secondary xylem, followed by an endodermis and ultimately vessels.[SUP][29][/SUP]
The high CO[SUB]2[/SUB] levels of Silurian-Devonian times, when plants were first colonising land, meant that the need for water was relatively low. As CO[SUB]2[/SUB] was withdrawn from the atmosphere by plants, more water was lost in its capture, and more elegant transport mechanisms evolved.[SUP][29][/SUP] As water transport mechanisms, and waterproof cuticles, evolved, plants could survive without being continually covered by a film of water. This transition from poikilohydry to homoiohydryopened up new potential for colonisation.[SUP][29][/SUP] Plants then needed a robust internal structure that contained long narrow channels for transporting water from the soil to all the different parts of the above-soil plant, especially to the parts where photosynthesis occurred.
During the Silurian, CO[SUB]2[/SUB] was readily available, so little water needed to be expended to acquire it. By the end of the Carboniferous, when CO[SUB]2[/SUB] levels had lowered to something approaching today's, around 17 times more water was lost per unit of CO[SUB]2[/SUB] uptake.[SUP][29][/SUP] However, even in these "easy" early days, water was at a premium, and had to be transported to parts of the plant from the wet soil to avoid desiccation. This early water transport took advantage of thecohesion-tension mechanism inherent in water. Water has a tendency to diffuse to areas that are drier, and this process is accelerated when water can be wicked along a fabric with small spaces. In small passages, such as that between the plant cell walls (or in tracheids), a column of water behaves like rubber &#8211; when molecules evaporate from one end, they literally pull the molecules behind them along the channels. Therefore transpiration alone provided the driving force for water transport in early plants.[SUP][29][/SUP] However, without dedicated transport vessels, the cohesion-tension mechanism cannot transport water more than about 2 cm, severely limiting the size of the earliest plants.[SUP][29][/SUP] This process demands a steady supply of water from one end, to maintain the chains; to avoid exhausing it, plants developed a waterproof cuticle. Early cuticle may not have had pores but did not cover the entire plant surface, so that gas exchange could continue.[SUP][29][/SUP] However, dehydration at times was inevitable; early plants cope with this by having a lot of water stored between their cell walls, and when it comes to it sticking out the tough times by putting life "on hold" until more water is supplied.[SUP][29][/SUP]

A banded tube from the late Silurian/early Devonian. The bands are difficult to see on this specimen, as an opaque carbonaceous coating conceals much of the tube. Bands are just visible in places on the left half of the image &#8211; click on the image for a larger view. Scale bar: 20 &#956;m​

To be free from the constraints of small size and constant moisture that the parenchymatic transport system inflicted, plants needed a more efficient water transport system. During the early Silurian, they developed specialized cells, which were lignified (or bore similar chemical compounds)[SUP][29][/SUP] to avoid implosion; this process coincided with cell death, allowing their innards to be emptied and water to be passed through them.[SUP][29][/SUP] These wider, dead, empty cells were a million times more conductive than the inter-cell method, giving the potential for transport over longer distances, and higher CO[SUB]2[/SUB] diffusion rates.
The earliest macrofossils to bear water-transport tubes are Silurian plants placed in the genus Cooksonia.[SUP][30][/SUP] The early Devonian pretracheophytes Aglaophyton and Horneophyton have structures very similar to the hydroids of modern mosses.
Plants continued to innovate new ways of reducing the resistance to flow within their cells, thereby increasing the efficiency of their water transport. Thickened bands on the walls of tubes are apparent from the early Silurian onwards[SUP][31][/SUP] are adaptations to ease the flow of water.[SUP][32][/SUP] Banded tubes, as well as tubes with pitted ornamentation on their walls, were lignified[SUP][33][/SUP] and, when they form single celled conduits, are referred to as tracheids. These, the "next generation" of transport cell design, have a more rigid structure than hydroids, preventing their collapse at higher levels of water tension.[SUP][29][/SUP] Tracheids may have a single evolutionary origin, possibly within the hornworts,[SUP][34][/SUP] uniting all tracheophytes (but they may have evolved more than once).[SUP][29][/SUP]
Water transport requires regulation, and dynamic control is provided by stomata.[SUP][35][/SUP] By adjusting the amount of gas exchange, they can restrict the amount of water lost through transpiration. This is an important role where water supply is not constant, and indeed stomata appear to have evolved before tracheids, being present in the non-vascular hornworts.[SUP][29][/SUP]
An endodermis probably evolved during the Silu-Devonian, but the first fossil evidence for such a structure is Carboniferous.[SUP][29][/SUP] This structure in the roots covers the water transport tissue and regulates ion exchange (and prevents unwanted pathogens etc. from entering the water transport system). The endodermis can also provide an upwards pressure, forcing water out of the roots when transpiration is not enough of a driver.
Once plants had evolved this level of controlled water transport, they were truly homoiohydric, able to extract water from their environment through root-like organs rather than relying on a film of surface moisture, enabling them to grow to much greater size.[SUP][29][/SUP] As a result of their independence from their surroundings, they lost their ability to survive desiccation &#8211; a costly trait to retain.[SUP][29][/SUP]
During the Devonian, maximum xylem diameter increased with time, with the minimum diameter remaining pretty constant.[SUP][32][/SUP] By the mid Devonian, the tracheid diameter of some plant lineages[SUP][36][/SUP] had plateaued.[SUP][32][/SUP] Wider tracheids allow water to be transported faster, but the overall transport rate depends also on the overall cross-sectional area of the xylem bundle itself.[SUP][32][/SUP] The increase in vascular bundle thickness further seems to correlate with the width of plant axes, and plant height; it is also closely related to the appearance of leaves[SUP][32][/SUP] and increased stomatal density, both of which would increase the demand for water.[SUP][29][/SUP]
While wider tracheids with robust walls make it possible to achieve higher water transport pressures, this increases the problem of cavitation.[SUP][29][/SUP] Cavitation occurs when a bubble of air forms within a vessel, breaking the bonds between chains of water molecules and preventing them from pulling more water up with their cohesive tension. A tracheid, once cavitated, cannot have its embolism removed and return to service (except in a few advanced angiosperms[SUP][verification needed][/SUP] that have developed a mechanism of doing so). Therefore, it is well worth plants' while to avoid cavitation occurring. For this reason, pits in tracheid walls have very small diameters, to prevent air entering and allowing bubbles to nucleate.[SUP][29][/SUP] Freeze-thaw cycles are a major cause of cavitation.[SUP][29][/SUP] Damage to a tracheid's wall almost inevitably leads to air leaking in and cavitation, hence the importance of many tracheids working in parallel.[SUP][29][/SUP]
Cavitation is hard to avoid, but once it has occurred plants have a range of mechanisms to contain the damage.[SUP][29][/SUP] Small pits link adjacent conduits to allow fluid to flow between them, but not air &#8211; although ironically these pits, which prevent the spread of embolisms, are also a major cause of them.[SUP][29][/SUP] These pitted surfaces further reduce the flow of water through the xylem by as much as 30%.[SUP][29][/SUP] Conifers, by the Jurassic, developed an ingenious improvement,[SUP][37][/SUP]using valve-like structures to isolate cavitated elements. These torus-margo[SUP][38][/SUP] structures have a blob floating in the middle of a donut; when one side depressurises the blob is sucked into the torus and blocks further flow.[SUP][29][/SUP] Other plants simply accept cavitation; for instance, oaks grow a ring of wide vessels at the start of each spring, none of which survive the winter frosts. Maples use root pressure each spring to force sap upwards from the roots, squeezing out any air bubbles.
Growing to height also employed another trait of tracheids &#8211; the support offered by their lignified walls. Defunct tracheids were retained to form a strong, woody stem, produced in most instances by a secondary xylem. However, in early plants, tracheids were too mechanically vulnerable, and retained a central position, with a layer of tough sclerenchyma on the outer rim of the stems.[SUP][29][/SUP] Even when tracheids do take a structural role, they are supported by sclerenchymatic tissue.
Tracheids end with walls, which impose a great deal of resistance on flow;[SUP][32][/SUP] vessel members have perforated end walls, and are arranged in series to operate as if they were one continuous vessel.[SUP][32][/SUP] The function of end walls, which were the default state in the Devonian, was probably to avoid embolisms. An embolism is where an air bubble is created in a tracheid. This may happen as a result of freezing, or by gases dissolving out of solution. Once an embolism is formed, it usually cannot be removed (but see later); the affected cell cannot pull water up, and is rendered useless.
End walls excluded, the tracheids of prevascular plants were able to operate under the same hydraulic conductivity as those of the first vascular plant, Cooksonia.[SUP][32][/SUP]
The size of tracheids is limited as they comprise a single cell; this limits their length, which in turn limits their maximum useful diameter to 80 &#956;m.[SUP][29][/SUP] Conductivity grows with the fourth power of diameter, so increased diameter has huge rewards; vessel elements, consisting of a number of cells, joined at their ends, overcame this limit and allowed larger tubes to form, reaching diameters of up to 500 &#956;m, and lengths of up to 10 m.[SUP][29][/SUP]
Vessels first evolved during the dry, low CO[SUB]2[/SUB] periods of the late Permian, in the horsetails, ferns and Selaginellales independently, and later appeared in the mid Cretaceous in angiosperms and gnetophytes.[SUP][29][/SUP] Vessels allow the same cross-sectional area of wood to transport around a hundred times more water than tracheids![SUP][29][/SUP] This allowed plants to fill more of their stems with structural fibres, and also opened a new niche to vines, which could transport water without being as thick as the tree they grew on.[SUP][29][/SUP] Despite these advantages, tracheid-based wood is a lot lighter, thus cheaper to make, as vessels need to be much more reinforced to avoid cavitation.[SUP][29][/SUP]
 
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