So how about banning all semi-automatic weapons?

canndo said:
Sorry Dude, you know that I rarely contest numbers but I do not believe that guns are used defensively every 13 seconds. I don't trust the methodology in the study and yes I am basing my distrust on anecdotal evidence.
Click to expand...

I have heard the more cautious estimate of four hundred thousand. That is still a massive salutary effect if you ask me. cn
 
canndo said:
Sorry Dude, you know that I rarely contest numbers but I do not believe that guns are used defensively every 13 seconds. I don't trust the methodology in the study and yes I am basing my distrust on anecdotal evidence.
Click to expand...

Those are the only numbers I am aware of. Even if you dispute the numbers, they sound high to me as well, they aren't zero. Some of those defensive uses did occur and some of them saved lives. It ain't a one way street.
 
kinddiesel said:
thats the problem , how stupid the laws are, not one good person had a gun on them only the bad guy that pisses me off
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I have a problem with labeling a law that states that children may not bring firearms to school as being stupid.
 
nitro harley said:
Well for starters I can think of one that pisses me off......the freedom to get on a plane without getting your asshole checked......and your nut sack....and lets not forget the wife.....I won't say much about my wife..........Thats a pretty big loss to me....I could think of more but you get my point I am sure...........This was all because of people from that very region ...........nitro..
Click to expand...

One problem with your theory. We have not attacked ANY of the countries the terrorists from 911 were from. Not a single solitary one.
 
canndo said:
Reactionary? Me? what is interesting to me is exactly how reactionary the pro gun folk are. If they catch the slightest whiff of question, of examination, of thought that runs in any way contrary to how they themselves believe, the questioner, the examiner, the thinker is labled an anti-gun fuck who is a dupe of the state.

So far as high capacity handguns alleviating shootings, that was not the point, I don't think any of us are capable of determining if an ongoing ban of semi-automatic handguns would slow any mass shooting
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And you are surprised by this, why, exactly?
 
canndo said:
Reactionary? Me? what is interesting to me is exactly how reactionary the pro gun folk are. If they catch the slightest whiff of question, of examination, of thought that runs in any way contrary to how they themselves believe, the questioner, the examiner, the thinker is labled an anti-gun fuck who is a dupe of the state.

So far as high capacity handguns alleviating shootings, that was not the point, I don't think any of us are capable of determining if an ongoing ban of semi-automatic handguns would slow any mass shooting
Click to expand...

Then why recommend their ban? That is not a reversible decision, should it be made law. While I am not a l/Libertarian, I do not see a counterforce to the center's reflex to gather and hold that sort of power ... operative anywhere. Not one nation has reinstated gun rights after passing restrictions. cn
 
"I will accept no law that leaves Homeland Security more armed than myself, on the grounds that I have better accuracy with an assault rifle than them, and I wouldn't trust them in a time of foreign invasion more than myself. They'd be prone to letting the guns vanish like they did in 2010.

Our government is too incompetent to be trusted in a case of homeland war, whether it be invasive or civil. It's my responsibility as an American citizen to protect myself, my country, and my constitution.

This war has just begun."

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18267374




http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html


maybe you should also check into this. cops are not there for you...



 
desert dude said:
Those are the only numbers I am aware of. Even if you dispute the numbers, they sound high to me as well, they aren't zero. Some of those defensive uses did occur and some of them saved lives. It ain't a one way street.
Click to expand...


No, they are not zero but neither is the number of people saved by armed police. I will reiterate however, if the number was zero, if not one single person's life was saved though the defensive use of a firearm it would not make a bit of difference. These discussions are fomented by the left and then perpetuated by the right - both fall victim to the ancilary arguments such as the ones we are having. The results don't matter, the only thing that matters is the fact that we are free to keep and bear in accord with the constitutional description of our God given right to protect ourselves. That right comes at great cost.
 
canndo said:
No, they are not zero but neither is the number of people saved by armed police. I will reiterate however, if the number was zero, if not one single person's life was saved though the defensive use of a firearm it would not make a bit of difference. These discussions are fomented by the left and then perpetuated by the right - both fall victim to the ancilary arguments such as the ones we are having. The results don't matter, the only thing that matters is the fact that we are free to keep and bear in accord with the constitutional description of our God given right to protect ourselves. That right comes at great cost.
Click to expand...

You have apparently just abandoned the veneer of reason. You are saying that you truly believe that the defensive benefit of carried guns is zero. You are saying here that the uncountable number of crimes and murders prevented by carrying, showing, or even presenting the credible threat of being armed ... don't count against the price. I am surprised, and confused. cn
 
nitro harley said:
Well for starters I can think of one that pisses me off......the freedom to get on a plane without getting your asshole checked......and your nut sack....and lets not forget the wife.....I won't say much about my wife..........Thats a pretty big loss to me....I could think of more but you get my point I am sure...........This was all because of people from that very region ...........nitro..
Click to expand...


You do not have the right to board a plane and you do not have the right to be free from intrusion if you decide to board that plane. You have the right to travel but not the right to fly.

When we are stopped and inspected when we board a bus or a train or our own cars then there will be a problem, until then, we do have the right to bitch about what they do to us in airports.
 
canndo said:
You do not have the right to board a plane and you do not have the right to be free from intrusion if you decide to board that plane. You have the right to travel but not the right to fly.

When we are stopped and inspected when we board a bus or a train or our own cars then there will be a problem, until then, we do have the right to bitch about what they do to us in airports.
Click to expand...

That is certainly debatable. You are free to walk across the country until that is defined as a privilege. Black folks are free to have separate but equal schools. You are free to speak but you can't use mass media. Slippery slopes everywhere I look.
 
cannabineer said:
I have heard the more cautious estimate of four hundred thousand. That is still a massive salutary effect if you ask me. cn
Click to expand...


If the original study had presented a number such as that one I might be less suspicious of even that one now. Here is the anecdotal - and i recognize that normaly I rebel against anecdotal presented in oppostion to scientific studies. Were it really the case that a defensive use of a firearm occurs once every 13 seconds I would know a person that had been involved or I would have known a person who knew a person who was involved - at least one in 60 years. this runs contrary to my ordinary arguments but still, I have never spoken to anyone who has used his or her weapon defensively. I suppose I coulde accept that if the number were lower such as yours is.
 
desert dude said:
That is certainly debatable. You are free to walk across the country until that is defined as a privilege. Black folks are free to have separate but equal schools. You are free to speak but you can't use mass media. Slippery slopes everywhere I look.
Click to expand...


Not debateable at all, unless you can show me something in that Constitution, that dead, non-living document that is held in stasis, that describes our God given right to board an airplane.
 
NoDrama said:
One problem with your theory. We have not attacked ANY of the countries the terrorists from 911 were from. Not a single solitary one.
Click to expand...

If you don't think that the people from 911 didn't have something to do with afganistan, I guess there is no need for debate...........You ask about what freedoms were lost, I gave you one and now.... My lost freedoms are a theory ..............nitro..
 
canndo said:
If the original study had presented a number such as that one I might be less suspicious of even that one now. Here is the anecdotal - and i recognize that normaly I rebel against anecdotal presented in oppostion to scientific studies. Were it really the case that a defensive use of a firearm occurs once every 13 seconds I would know a person that had been involved or I would have known a person who knew a person who was involved - at least one in 60 years. this runs contrary to my ordinary arguments but still, I have never spoken to anyone who has used his or her weapon defensively. I suppose I coulde accept that if the number were lower such as yours is.
Click to expand...
Is it possible that you live in a particularly safe community?
Where I grew up, I also heard zero tales of defensive gun use. But since I've moved to college and onward, i heard several accounts. Interestingly, most of those were from folks not in my shooting circles. I think now that I grew up in an upscale community at the very temporal apogee of the quality of life in the States. cn
 
cannabineer said:
Is it possible that you live in a particularly safe community?
Where I grew up, I also heard zero tales of defensive gun use. But since I've moved to college and onward, i heard several accounts. Interestingly, most of those were from folks not in my shooting circles. I think now that I grew up in an upscale community at the very temporal apogee of the quality of life in the States. cn
Click to expand...



I have lived in all sorts of communities from ones that were akin to my observations of small squares many miles from a town to places where our biggest fear was of either stray bullets or gone astray policemen.
 
NoDrama said:
19 people attacked. 15 were from Saudi Arabia, the others were from Egypt and UAE.
Proof...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks


Now this is the part where you post proof that they had something to do with Afghanistan.

Did you know we have bases in Saudi and UAE? 28 of them.
Click to expand...



NoDrama and I get so wound up that we at times argue over things we agree on. We have not participated in a war where we were defending our primary civil rights since WWII and even that one could be debated.
 
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