Smelly's 12/12 From Seed Party Cup Grow!

How much will I yield from 1 female ?

  • 1-5 grams

    Votes: 50 16.0%
  • 5-10 grams

    Votes: 138 44.1%
  • 10-15

    Votes: 125 39.9%

  • Total voters
    313

tafbang

Well-Known Member
Higher percentages of CBD give you couchlock. As THC is lost as it oxidizes it turns into CBN, and the trichomes turn from milky to amber. CBN causes a confused messed up feeling that people confuse for both increased potency and couchlock.

I have preached that for years but some years back someone started the myth that amber means potent and it means couchlock and it was believed and now is believed to be the truth, a fact, when it never was and it never will be.

If someone wants couchlock they need to pick strains that are high in CBD rather than allow THC to be lost as it oxidizes and becomes CBN and then consider than true potency and true couchlock.


As I said though, many growers refuse to accept the facts and I doubt that any will now. It's a shame though because they could be smoking weed they would enjoy much more and get higher off of if they just picked the right strains rather than the 'flavor of the month' strains or whatever their favorite breeder sells and then attempt to turn it into something it genetically isn't by going amber.

There was also a medical study on high CBN/or CBD (unsure) marijuana vs so-called "schwag" marijuana in Europe I believe, I can't remember the researchers name. but they had 100 people smoke each kind to test out their memories... the High CBN/or CBD marijuana was shown to have no effect on memory loss and they in-fact showed that their memories seemed to be way better than the people who were diagnosed the bad weed. The schwag people had also forgotten many things for the test. It was throughout a month I believe.

I'm probably explaining this very terribly but I think you can find research online. high cbn/or CBD vs bad weed study. something along those lines, sorry for being vague
 

Brick Top

New Member
There was also a medical study on high CBN/or CBD (unsure) marijuana vs so-called "schwag" marijuana in Europe I believe, I can't remember the researchers name. but they had 100 people smoke each kind to test out their memories... the High CBN/or CBD marijuana was shown to have no effect on memory loss and they in-fact showed that their memories seemed to be way better than the people who were diagnosed the bad weed. The schwag people had also forgotten many things for the test. It was throughout a month I believe.

I'm probably explaining this very terribly but I think you can find research online. high cbn/or CBD vs bad weed study. something along those lines, sorry for being vague

What in the wide, wide world of sports does anything you stumbled your way through there have to do with THC oxidizing, being lost, and turning into CBN when trichomes begin to turn amber and that CBN does not produce true couchlock and CBD does?

That was the entire point of what I posted. THC degrading, oxidizing and turning into a less desirable chemical element, CBN, that LARGE numbers of growers totally incorrectly believe means a true couchlock body stone when in fact a true couchlock body stone comes from high percentages/leves of CBD.

Question: What do the memory tests and schwag you replied with/about have to do with the point I was making? Answer: NOTHING AT ALL.
 

tafbang

Well-Known Member
Amazing Post, Brick Top. That's the type of information I sought for. has to be top1 or 2 of my list of information. I feel with that I can better understand what I'm smoking if it wasn't something that I grew and also better understand the highs of some products I plan on trying. Also taught me the proper way to cure. I'm thankful for my cold climate right now and I'm very thankful for the post +

and I was typing what I said before you shared the Cannabinoid information. and It may have not had anything to do with what you said. but it was an interesting study and shared for no real reason than for information.

Here's the study:

Valerie Curran of the University College London who led the latest study, said that if habitual users must partake they should be encouraged to use strains with higher levels of cannabidiol, rather than using skunk.

Researchers had been suspecting that any effects of the drug on mental health could be a result of an increased ratio of THC to cannabidiol in cannabis, because levels of cannabidiol have not kept pace with rising THC concentrations.

To test this hypothesis, Curran and her colleagues travelled to the homes of 134 volunteers, where the subjects got high on their own supply before completing a battery of psychological tests designed to measure anxiety, memory recall and other factors such as verbal fluency when both sober and stoned.

The researchers then took a portion of the stash back to their laboratory to test how much THC and cannabidiol it contained.

The subjects were divided into groups of high (samples containing more than 0.75 percent cannabidiol) and low (less than 0.14 percent) cannabidiol exposure, and the data were filtered so that their THC levels were constant.

Analysis showed that participants who had smoked cannabis low in cannabidiol were significantly worse at recalling text than they were when not intoxicated. Those who smoked cannabis high in cannabidiol showed no such impairment.

useless information or not. I find it useful
 

Brick Top

New Member
Amazing Post, Brick Top. That's the type of information I sought for. has to be top1 or 2 of my list of information. I feel with that I can better understand what I'm smoking if it wasn't something that I grew and also better understand the highs of some products I plan on trying. Also taught me the proper way to cure. I'm thankful for my cold climate right now and I'm very thankful for the post +

and I was typing what I said before you shared the Cannabinoid information. and It may have not had anything to do with what you said. but it was an interesting study and shared for no real reason than for information

If you hadn't insisted on acting like the southern end of a northbound horse in your 8 plants in a picnic basket thread I could have flooded it with tons of extremely useful highly technical information ... but you made it clear you did not want anything at all like that in your thread ... so I didn't.
 

tafbang

Well-Known Member
It's different when people just say things without facts. I was a beginner and I was just weeding out information that had no backup. I clearly asked you to state why your information was superior to everything else I read.

The 1st thing I noticed about every marijuana forum is that people will butt-heads and start yelling at each other about who's right and who's wrong. I was simply just asking for some facts, not your life story or history with smoking weed for a long time... there wasn't supposed to be any offense but you kept going on and just wouldn't throw the facts on the table. and when you linked me to that e-book on Marijuana I could only read 3 pages out of the whole thing before they asked me to buy it and wouldn't let me look at it anymore. either way. you are obviously raged about it. and that isn't my fault. I'm just trying to progress positively without the nonsense
 

Brick Top

New Member
It's different when people just say things without facts. I was a beginner and I was just weeding out information that had no backup. I clearly asked you to state why your information was superior to everything else I read.

I posted a link to roughly 15 or 20 sites, most of them online books on growing, some written by horticulturalists and others by people who were highly skilled growers when you were still messing your diapers ... and that is where my information came from, that was the proof that my information was superior to the myths and urban legends and half truths and misconceptions and personal opinions and old hippie folklore you were comparing what I said to.

But you ignored all of that because you did not want any real facts in your 8 plants in a picnic basket thread.
 

tafbang

Well-Known Member
I blocked you after you posted about 4 stories of nothing. I didn't read about 30 of your post. no offense. it started out wrong, I'm deading this conversation. Sorry guys
 

Brick Top

New Member
I blocked you after you posted about 4 stories of nothing. I didn't read about 30 of your post. no offense. it started out wrong, I'm deading this conversation. Sorry guys

No you didn't. At first you said you read the info found using the links for hours, and then later you claimed to have never seen them because you had put me on ignore. You kept replying to my messages, including using quotes of what I had said, and if you had put me on ignore you would never have been able to see my messages to reply to them, let alone quote them in your replies.

That is the last thing I will say to you in this thread. I had no intentions of scrambling it up and I apologize for doing so, but your combination of ignorance, lies and continual refusal to accept proven facts and insistence that what you are doing is right or good or even better than the facts I provided you really rubs me the wrong way so I needed to vent a little.
 

SmeLLyTreeZ

Well-Known Member
I really appreciate the info bricktop! I'm sure you obviously understand that a lot of us "new growers" where lead to believe that amber was "more potent" and its hard to find statements that are backed up by scientific info. Honestly I just browsed through the book of info you posted but it was enough for me to realize you know what your talking about lol... So let me ask you this. Do you let the trics turn a hint of amber at all so you know its reached peaked potency? Or do you know after so long when there perfectly cloudy with no amber what so ever so the thc isn't degraded?

I have a scope I just didn't want to cut my kandykush to early but with this new info now that I know its showing a hint of amber but almost completely cloudy I guess its time! Now that we have your knowledge in here, how do you feel about flushing? IF you feel like getting into that of course lol.

Thanks again and +REP is the least I can do for trying to help us out!
 

homer371

Well-Known Member
Hey bricktop, thanks for the info, +Rep. You have just enlightened me on this THC vs CBN vs CBD issue. It must be frustrating seeing misinformation spread so widely.

So, just so I have it right, the short of it is:
1) CBD level depends on the particular strain (the higher, the more *true* couch lock)
2) max THC is obtained by harvesting at 100% cloudy
3) as you let % amber increase, THC degrades into CBN, which is less desireable than THC and causes more drowsy/confused effect, not a true couchlock

Something like that?

As for the party cup grow, thickness is looking awesome smelly!! I think i'm ready to give you some more +rep. Oh damn, guess not yet.
 

SmeLLyTreeZ

Well-Known Member
Hey bricktop, thanks for the info, +Rep. You have just enlightened me on this THC vs CBN vs CBD issue. It must be frustrating seeing misinformation spread so widely.

So, just so I have it right, the short of it is:
1) CBD level depends on the particular strain (the higher, the more *true* couch lock)
2) max THC is obtained by harvesting at 100% cloudy
3) as you let % amber increase, THC degrades into CBN, which is less desireable than THC and causes more drowsy/confused effect, not a true couchlock

Something like that?

As for the party cup grow, thickness is looking awesome smelly!! I think i'm ready to give you some more +rep. Oh damn, guess not yet.
Thanks bro!

Interesting on the cloudy trics huh! Shit better for me, you don't have to wait as long! He hit it right on the head with the CBN and its effects didn't he! I'm definitely going to give it a try and see if I notice a difference.
 

homer371

Well-Known Member
Thanks bro!

Interesting on the cloudy trics huh! Shit better for me, you don't have to wait as long! He hit it right on the head with the CBN and its effects didn't he! I'm definitely going to give it a try and see if I notice a difference.
interesting... does this also mean that as the months go by with my buds curing in the jar, the trichs are gonna get more amber? or do they degrade differently when the plant is dead? and how fast does it degrade, like how much % of thc becomes cbn in a 3-month period, say, when buds are in a jar?

bricktop, i need answers! lol
 

allen bud

Active Member
great info from bricktop!i think i may have learned that from bricktop LAST year and now dont wait for amber colors i wait to see the staimen turn colors and draw back into the bud ,no more scope,and last year the cheese and hph were great not much amber at all...i used to beleive before that that you should wait for 50/50 amber ,cloudy.and well you know the rest.lol
 

Brick Top

New Member
So let me ask you this. Do you let the trics turn a hint of amber at all so you know its reached peaked potency? Or do you know after so long when there perfectly cloudy with no amber what so ever so the thc isn't degraded?
To begin with not every trichome will begin as a colorless clear. Most will these day because of the mutt genetics, the Heinz 57 Variety genetics that modern breeding has created. In the past, and still now and then, trichomes will begin as a clear yellow or a clear amber. If you see that you wait until they all cloud and then as soon as you see any darkening, it is time to harvest.

In the case of the far more common colorless clear trichome that then turns cloudy/milky you wait until you see a very small percentage of light amber trichomes show up. If you don't wait that long a fair number of trichomes will likely still be totally clear or only slightly cloudy/milky and not reached max THC levels.

If you are growing a pure 100% sativa, or a cross that is very close to being 100% sativa you want to harvest a little earlier. A totally pure sativa, or very nearly pure sativa, will reach peak THC levels just before the trichomes begin to turn cloudy/milky. In those you wait until you see a small percentage of trichomes turn cloudy. That will be a sign that the rest that are still clear have reached or nearly reached their peak level of THC.

In either case, a pure or almost pure sativa when clouding begins to occur, or a cross where amber begins to occur, the longer you let that progress, the more cloudy/white or amber you allow to occur the more THC you are losing to oxidation and the CBN levels will be increasing beyond what someone should want.

I still do not expect many amber trichome lovers to believe this, but like it or not, reject it or not, it is a fact.

They love couchlock and they wrongly believe what they are getting when they lose THC and increase CBN gives them a better buzz. They pick the wrong strains to grow. They mainly look at THC percentage, THC percentage, THC percentage, but seldom if ever at CBD percentage and then they try to play pot-alchemist and get what they want. If someone wants couchlock, pay less attention to THC percentages and more to higher CBD percentages because the two are very seldom found in the same strain.

The problem is the 'Dutch Masters' have darn near bred CBD out of modern crosses in their mad scientist quest to find the Holy Grail, and that leaves true couchlock lovers with fewer and fewer high CBD strains to pick from, so they take the wrong route and try to get it through trading off THC for increased levels of CBN.

Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking
June 15, 2010

A California physician is offering his medical-marijuana patients a liquefied version of the drug that he says won't produce much of a buzz but does contain chemicals helpful in treating a variety of illnesses, the Washington Post reported June 1.


Willets, Calif., physician William Courtney, M.D., said that marijuana with high levels of cannabidiol (CBD) seems to have the most medical potential; ironically, CBD levels seem to be lowest in marijuana strains of the plant that are highest in THC -- the main psychoactive substance in marijuana.

"What has happened is, almost all strains available in America through the black market are THC concentrates," said Ethan Russo, senior medical adviser to GW Pharmaceuticals, which is developing the marijuana-based pain medication Sativex. "The CBD in almost all cases has been bred out. The reason is cannabis in this country has been cultivated for its intoxicating effect."

Medical-marijuana advocates want to see more research into CBD. "The bridge to legalization is medical marijuana," said Addison DeMoura, one of the owners of the Steep Hill Medical Collective in Oakland. "I believe the bridge from medical marijuana to real science will be CBDs."


If someone wants couchlock, pay attention to the first two lines of the piece of the article below.



Why Modern Medical Cannabis Strains have Minimal CBD

Sam the Skunkman says that nearly all modern cannabis is pretty much CBD-free or the levels are so low as to be miniscule, landrace indicas are the way to go.

Right now there's simply no strains available where cbd will make up more than 2% of the overall cannabinoids (.5% of the flower weight) and no way of cultivating a noticeably higher cbd content. For the most part conversion of cbg into cbd is controlled by a single gene (Bd) which is codominant with the gene that converts cbg into thc. For example a plant that inherits a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other will have roughly equal content of Cbd and Thc. However, if the plant is homozygous for Bd it will have very little thc and if its homozygous for Bt it will have very little Cbd.

While it is true that afghani landraces can have a high cbd content. Since having a Bd gene will replace half of the thc content with cbd seed companies always remove the Bd allele from the gene pool in order to maximize thc potency and stay competitive.


Grower tokers hang out on sites like this and get their heads filled with personal opinions, myths, urban legends, half-truths, misconceptions old hippie folklore and in some cases absolutely totally incorrect information .. and they soak it in like a sponge, they swallow it hook line and sinker just because some person they do not know beans about, and who does not have a clue of what they are talking about, said so. Then it is repeated and repeated and repeated and said over and over again until it proves what Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels taught Hitler about politics. If you repeat a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth and the bigger the lie, the more believable it will be.


The combination of strains lacking in high percentages of THC, mainly thanks to the 'Dutch Master's all trying to outdo the competition for the latest 'flavor of the month' strain that will give tokers Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and in doing so breeding most of the CBD out of their products, and then some little clown shoe confusing trading off THC for increased levels of CBN being the best way to go and claiming amber trichomes mean higher potency and more true couchlock, the myth was created and it spread like wildfire until almost every modern day puppy believes it is as much of a fact as time and tide and gravity.

I have grown so very tired of attempting to debunk the myth, that is so overwhelmingly prevalent, and nearly totally believed here, that it is one of the list of reasons why I likely will not remain here much longer. It has gotten really old continually beating my head against a very thick wall of ignorance and not even chipping or denting it because the myth is so firmly believed by growers who totally believe and rely only on personal opinions and inaccurate beliefs but know few, if any, facts.

Sorry for the rant at the end but the older I get the lower my tolerance level for ignorance falls and when I get on the subject of trichomes I do become a tad bit intense at times.
 

tafbang

Well-Known Member
First of all, +rep to Bricktop for the fantastic info. Thanks a ton man.

Secondly, well, here's my baby AK-47.
Party cup lst!!! lol, that just made me smile really hard... If I end up with any males I'm going to get get a few seeds from 1 of the females and I'm going to 18/12 lst. a little more light for me since my watts are really weak
 

Brick Top

New Member
So, just so I have it right, the short of it is:
1) CBD level depends on the particular strain (the higher, the more *true* couch lock)
2) max THC is obtained by harvesting at 100% cloudy
3) as you let % amber increase, THC degrades into CBN, which is less desireable than THC and causes more drowsy/confused effect, not a true couchlock

Something like that?
You pretty much hit the nail right on the head. If someone wants TRUE couchlock they need to search for strains that are high in CBD and put THC levels secondary in their list of priorities. The best place to look for that is in pure landrace indica strains, ones the 'Dutch Masters' have not bred the CBD out of trying to create Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

The only variation to the 100% cloudy part is if growing a pure sativa or one that is almost pure, like 90% sativa. They reach peak THC levels when the trichomes are still clear so for those you would want to wait until you see a small percentage of cloudy trichomes, which means the others have had a chance to fully or nearly full max out with THC, and harvest then.

Also, and I believe I did mention it in another message in this thread, while it is rare to find these days some strains trichomes will not start out as a colorless clear and instead be a clear yellow or even a clear very light amber. In those you would wait until they are all cloudy and then when a small percentage begin to darken, it would be peak harvest time .. that is unless they are a pure or almost pure sativa and then you would harvest when a small percentage of trichomes, of whatever color they may be, begin to cloud.
 
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