Silica vs Acids vs CalMag

R

RFFT

Member
Current System:
  • Well Water
  • Large Scale NFT 24 hr Recirculatory Feed System w/ multiple zones running different nutrient lines & recipes
  • Automated EC Dosing & pH management (freshly calibrated)
  • H2O chiller system in operation - water temps at constant 68 degrees day & night
  • Resi Size - 350+/- gallons
  • Nutrients - GenHydro FloraDuo Series
    • FloraDuo A
    • FloraDuo B
    • Liquid Kool Bloom
    • Armor Si (silica)
    • Diamond Nectar (humic / fulvic acids)
    • CALiMAGic (calcium & magnesium)
  • DNA - various

PROBLEMS:
  • Automated Dosing System only has 6 pumps (with one going for pH adjustment, three for base nutrients, and leaving two open spots for supplements)
  • I have tested 4 different zones side by side
    • Silica & CalMag
    • Silica & Acids
    • CalMag & Acids
    • All 3 (with the silica being added by hand - this is not a viable long term solution, as being I do not trust employees to do this accurately week in & out)
  • No matter which combination I run, Im not seeing (to the naked eye) any variance in quality or yield
  • Too be fair, in a properly run hydro system, the base nutrients are all that should be necessary (A, B, Kool Bloom) as those are "complete" with everything the plant needs.
  • In theory,
    • the silica adds to stalk strength & plant health, but isnt a "necessary" building block for plant life
    • the acids are redundant (properly chelated synthetic nutes do not need additional help with plant absorption and supposedly Liquid Kool Bloom has similar additives already in it)
    • the cal mag is already included in the A & B, and is more of a supplement needed for coco mediums that strip the calmag from the solution. Also consider that I am on well water, which has plenty of calmag & iron naturally in it

SOLUTIONS?
  • Im trying to decide on which nutrient to ditch. A case can be made to keep each one of those nutrients as well as ditching each one. I'd like to know everyone else's opinion. I've spoken to two different lab techs with General Hydro and they both gave me differing advice LOL. Both grow shops made cases for different blends.
  • Im inclined to keep the Silica because it is the one element that is not already an ingredient in the other products already used
  • I'd love to ditch both the Acids & CalMag so that I can use that dosing pump for a product like FloraShield (see my other thread/conundrum)

All input welcome, THX
 
R

RFFT

Member
Renfro said:
With well water you likely have lots of calcium, why are you using cal mag?

You can get excellent results with only base nutrients.
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CalMag because General Hydro techs said the Humic Acids were redundant. And because the CalMag also has Iron. The A&B base nutes are not labeled very well. Missing is iron & manganese from the ingredients list for some reason.

Yes, considering the technology in the system Im running, I should be fine with just the base nutes, in theory.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
May wanna drop the calmag because it has all that calcium, find an alternate source of iron like perhaps MOST trace elements, wouldnt take much. I would get the well water analyzed to see whats in it, there may be plenty of iron. Knowing how much calcium is in there is good.
 
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Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
If I was gonna dump one item it would be the silica for sure. But all are likely not required to get your yield and quality.
 
R

RFFT

Member
Renfro said:
If I was gonna dump one item it would be the silica for sure. But all are likely not required to get your yield and quality.
Click to expand...
The silica is the one thing that isnt in the base or supplements. Thus why I was hesistant to drop it.

I like the silica for plant defense/health.

Yeah, gonna drop the calmag.

But like I said before, I’ve test all 3 ratios side x side. Cant tell the difference to the naked eye. Makes me think the base nutes would work just fine LOL.

Supplements are typically bandaids to flawed medium types. Not necessarily needed in efficient water cultures.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
I would drop the cal mag and humic and fulvic acid. Liquid plant food doesn't need to be chelated with natural chelating agents. It's already in readily available form with mineral based nutrients.

I would never mix organics with Hydroponics. I don't like cleaning something that doesn't give me much in return. I trade stability and ease of use over increased yield. Foliar feed is more effective from my experience. And fulvic acid has it place and works very well in combination with Kelp as foliar feed as example.
 
R

RFFT

Member
Wastei said:
I would drop the cal mag and humic and fulvic acid. Liquid plant food doesn't need to be chelated with natural chelating agents. It's already in readily available form with mineral based nutrients.
Click to expand...
I understand this logic.

But the Humic would help with the absorption of the natural iron, cal, mag that is in the well water would it not?

I would never mix organics with Hydroponics. I don't like cleaning something that doesn't give me much in return. I trade stability and ease of use over increased yield. Foliar feed is more effective from my experience. And fulvic acid has it place and works very well in combination with Kelp as foliar feed as example.
Click to expand...
Thus why Im not using Flouraliscious Plus (Fulvic). But rather Diamond Nectar (Humic) instead.
 
5BY5LEC

5BY5LEC

Well-Known Member
I would drop the diamond nectar.
If you are counting on the stuff to help uptake whats in your well water then it is a guessing game as to what ca,mg and fe your plant is uptaking and what you actually have going on in there.
Calmag since you know exactly what you are getting, so to speak.
I might be completely wrong but as far as well/tap water goes, I think those minerals need to go through some kind of cycle or whatever to make them available to the plant. Calmag is far better than ca, mg, fe in your well water.
Also, Diamond appears to be marketed to allow your plants maximum mineral absorption. This is redundant when using mineral nutes, which are already made to be 100% available, no?
 
R

RFFT

Member
5BY5LEC said:
I would drop the diamond nectar.
If you are counting on the stuff to help uptake whats in your well water then it is a guessing game as to what ca,mg and fe your plant is uptaking and what you actually have going on in there.
Click to expand...
Yes. But it’s not like I need the nutes that are in the well water. There is enough calmag in the base to, in theory, keep plants healthy.

Calmag since you know exactly what you are getting, so to speak.
Click to expand...
But it could be too much of a good thing?

I might be completely wrong but as far as well/tap water goes, I think those minerals need to go through some kind of cycle or whatever to make them available to the plant.
Click to expand...
Thus why I need Diamond Nectar to make those minerals easier to absorb.

Calmag is far better than ca, mg, fe in your well water.
Click to expand...
Yes. But it is a supplement for if/when the setup is deficient in those nutes. Of which I shouldnt be, in theory.

Also, Diamond appears to be marketed to allow your plants maximum mineral absorption. This is redundant when using mineral nutes, which are already made to be 100% available, no?
Click to expand...
Thus why Diamond Nectar is a good choice to make the available natural minerals in the well water available for absorption.

Im not using it for the purposes of helping with the already chelated synthetic liquid nutes.
 
S

shn3ak

Active Member
interesting post for someone also using general hydroponics (flora series), I have been adding silica lately and havent yet observed any great difference, also beginning to think nothing needs to be added to these nutes. I added cal mag for a bit (growing in coco) and ended up with nute lockout and burn and needed to flush everything to get em back to normal. I've been told time and time again that GH nutes are good stuff and shouldn't be adding anything, after reading this thread leaning toward removing all additives.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
RFFT said:
I understand this logic.

But the Humic would help with the absorption of the natural iron, cal, mag that is in the well water would it not?



Thus why Im not using Flouraliscious Plus (Fulvic). But rather Diamond Nectar (Humic) instead.
Click to expand...
I still think you're overthinking stuff. Why do you need to absorb minerals from the well water when you already supplement it in the plant food? What ppm has your well water?

Floraliscious Plus contains very little fulvic acid and is more like a flavour additive. Diamond nectar is watered down Fulvic Acid. More important to keep the system clean and get rid of biofilm that hinders uptake. Proper cleaning between runs will do more than any additive you listed.
 
R

RFFT

Member
Wastei said:
I still think you're overthinking stuff. Why do you need to absorb minerals from the well water when you already supplement it in the plant food? What ppm has your well water?

Floraliscious Plus contains very little fulvic acid and is more like a flavour additive. Diamond nectar is watered down Fulvic Acid. More important to keep the system clean and get rid of biofilm that hinders uptake. Proper cleaning between runs will do more than any additive you listed.
Click to expand...
DN is Humics.

But I do agree, I think keeping the system clean of bio film is a priority issue right now.

The algae growth is significant. I’ve had multiple consultants & big name growers do site visits. All said the algae was nothing to worry about. Especially since when i harvest and pull out the massive root mats, they’re mostly free of algae.

But I’d like to have those super clean white roots I see in the pics. And never have to clean my feed tubes of organic matter buildup again.

Too what degree is the algae affecting yield? I dont know. I wont know until I have a truly sterile “dead” reservoir. Which Im working towards. (See my other thread)
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Since i've been using a fulvic/humic mix, my EC is much lower. 0.7EC total, 0.2 well water. So on a larger scale, it would save $$$ on nutes in the long run.
 
R

RFFT

Member
rkymtnman said:
Since i've been using a fulvic/humic mix, my EC is much lower. 0.7EC total, 0.2 well water. So on a larger scale, it would save $$$ on nutes in the long run.
Click to expand...
My well water is about 0.45

I did many EC tests. Started fresh babies at 0.7, 0.9, 1.2, and even as high as 2.3

They never burned. In fact, the more I gave, the better they looked.

At the moment Im running tests on ramping up nutes over a 4week stretch versus going with one constant throughout. No conclusive results yet.

W1 1.2
W2 1.4
W3 1.6
W4 1.8
W5 2.0
W6 & 7 2.2
W8 1.4 & flush at end

Versus

W1 - 1.2
W2 thru W7 - 2.2
W8 - 1.2 & flush at end

GenHydro’s feed chart suggests going 1.8 on the babies and as high as 3.9 on mature plants. I tested 3.9 on some mature plants, no burning. No huge yield increase either.

Hard to say if it’s just a waste of nutes to go that hard considering plants are vibrant & green (no yellowing at all throughout harvest). Regardless of what blend I use (silica vs humics vs calmag).

But I would like to find the ideal setup.
 
Wastei

Wastei

Well-Known Member
RFFT said:
My well water is about 0.45

I did many EC tests. Started fresh babies at 0.7, 0.9, 1.2, and even as high as 2.3

They never burned. In fact, the more I gave, the better they looked.

At the moment Im running tests on ramping up nutes over a 4week stretch versus going with one constant throughout. No conclusive results yet.

W1 1.2
W2 1.4
W3 1.6
W4 1.8
W5 2.0
W6 & 7 2.2
W8 1.4 & flush at end

Versus

W1 - 1.2
W2 thru W7 - 2.2
W8 - 1.2 & flush at end

GenHydro’s feed chart suggests going 1.8 on the babies and as high as 3.9 on mature plants. I tested 3.9 on some mature plants, no burning. No huge yield increase either.

Hard to say if it’s just a waste of nutes to go that hard considering plants are vibrant & green (no yellowing at all throughout harvest). Regardless of what blend I use (silica vs humics vs calmag).

But I would like to find the ideal setup.
Click to expand...
Going higher than 1.75 in EC is just total waste with your circumstances, you could probably go even lower than that. It will only lead to higher risk of pythium and more algae growth. To get understanding of what optimal EC actually is I don't think you should listen to the ones selling the product, lol :lol:
 
Last edited:
R

RFFT

Member
Wastei said:
Going higher than 1.75 in EC is just total waste with your circumstances, you could probably go even lower than that. It will only lead to higher risk of pythium and more algae growth. To get understanding of what optimal EC actually is I don't think you should listen to the ones selling the product, lol :lol:
Click to expand...
Yeah i hear ya. I avoid the sales reps and speak directly to the techs. They are much more knowledgeable and I dont feel they are trying to sell me anything.

I’ve heard them say i could go as high as 4.0

Tho, to their credit, none of them have outright suggested it. But i had to test it anyways. Tho, with 24 hr recirculative feeding, Ive never understood the need to go high on EC since food is always available. Especially with weekly resi flushes.

People are generally afraid to give straight line advice because of the many variables. So many grow mediums & system types. Plus all the wonky home brew methods people tend to come up with.
 
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