Shroud of Turin

sworth

Well-Known Member
Actually, I agree with what you're saying, just not the way you say it.
Only I know what research I have/haven't done, what I can/cannot be bothered with etc etc.; not you.
I made a point of not calling you a dick (why would I? I don't know you) by saying you "came across" as a dick.

Next time why not try and just get some discussion going, throw ideas around, listen to some other's shit for a bit.....these are, surely, better ways to turning others to your way of thinking, to finding truth.
Preferable to wading in telling everyone how terrible they are...and how right you are.

I watched the lecture from the Jesuit school and found it very very interesting, in fact I'm going to have to watch it again to ensure some facts have settled in, really!
I wonder if that lecturer would have had the same reaction (as yourself) coming across this thread?

Peace
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
This will be the first and last time that I will be posting on this forum,and don't ask me to explain why.
it is incredible to see such incredibly ignorant posts about the shroud being posted here.


If you had bothered to research the over 300 peer reviewed research papers done on the shroud you wouldn't have made such a post that doesn't match the reality of shroud research.
http://cybercomputing.com/freeinquiry//skeptic/shroud/articles/rogers-ta-response.htm
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/claims_of_invalid_ldquoshroudrdquo_radiocarbon_date_cut_from_whole_cloth/
http://www.badarchaeology.com/?page_id=322
 
Why am I still here lol
lets give the example of why it's important to thoroughly research ur sources.
ciscop for example was one of the first places I studied the shroud at because I wanted to start with the most biased websites in order to make sure I understood both sides of the coin.

Joe nickell is nothing more then a professional atheist and pseudo skeptic.
check and see what his scientific credentials are ?
check and see if he even has a 2 year degree in any scientific field.
no and no to both .

He even had the Gaul to try to debunk ray Rogers peer reviewed paper without even understanding the science behind it.
rogers schooled him and made him look like a kid. Ciscop doesn't rely on science. They are basically an atheist kept if site whose job is to deny anything that is evidence for god and against methodological naturalism.
Ill repeat again check the peer reviewed research papers. Sturp has authored most of them and they are almost all scientists from every world view.

yiu guys are trying to get me addicted to this forum.

if you want a lot more detailed info there is a long running thread on the godandscience forum
 
Actually, I agree with what you're saying, just not the way you say it.
Only I know what research I have/haven't done, what I can/cannot be bothered with etc etc.; not you.
I made a point of not calling you a dick (why would I? I don't know you) by saying you "came across" as a dick.

Next time why not try and just get some discussion going, throw ideas around, listen to some other's shit for a bit.....these are, surely, better ways to turning others to your way of thinking, to finding truth.
Preferable to wading in telling everyone how terrible they are...and how right you are.

I watched the lecture from the Jesuit school and found it very very interesting, in fact I'm going to have to watch it again to ensure some facts have settled in, really!
I wonder if that lecturer would have had the same reaction (as yourself) coming across this thread?

Peace
True I did come across as a dik, but did you ever consider how you came across when your bringing those silly examples such as the image of Jesus on a peanut butter sandwich. Don't you think that maybe these rediculous examples made you come across as a dik also?

But sometimes a dramatic post can really catch your attention wouldn't it? ;)
i know your post caught my attention and mine caught yours as well.
by the way I support weed for medicinal purposes :)
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
It's possible that collective belief in the shroud can charge it with power.
Don't be so hasty to jump to conclusions.
I know i shouldn't, but ... how, and with how what of power? How to tap it? Heck ... how to even measure it? Instrument, units, dimensions? How do we subject the proposition to test? cn
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Ok I'll break my promise one again. Beef no one is even talking about contamination here.
you obviously skimmed over the peer reviewed research of agnostic chemist ray Rogers.
no one is talking contamination here. What's been proven by Rogers is that what was tested wasn't part of the original shroud, it is part of a reweave. Pleaseeeee do some actual research on the shroud, the positive and negatives. If you did you would also know that the people in charge of the c14 testing (not the labs, it the actual people put in charge of setting the tests up) you will see that they violated 13 protocols that should have Ben taken care of before hand, one of the basic protocols is chemical analysis of the test pieces to make sure they are indicative of the whole relic in question. STURP. suggested these protocols and the people put in charge of them ignored STURP.

rogers in his peer reviewed rearch showed that the c14 piece was much much younger then the rest of the shroud. This isn't disputable as it took 7 rigorous months of peer review before his research was accepted.
beef at least you took the time to do some basic research, now go over to Stephen jones blog or shroud.com and research both sides to see why science favors authenticity compellingly when it comes to the shroud.

at least you show willingness to start looking into it, unlike the guy I responded to who ignorantly posted his unscientific opinions about the shroud then makes some sneezy remarks about religious relics and then hypocritically calling me a dik for calling him out on his ignorant snide remarks.

i promise you once you start researching, you will become obsessed with the shroud, and it will have a profound impact on your search for truth.
i suspect your intelligent and open minded enough to start that search when your ready , unlike the mentally challenged remarks of a certain person I replied to. Ok I'm really gone now poof I disappeared just like the bankrupt worldview of atheism lol.



  • It's also been hypothesised that the patch we tested was a modern repair, but most of us agree that's implausible, because the weave is very unusual and matches the rest of the shroud perfectly.







 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Why am I still here lol
lets give the example of why it's important to thoroughly research ur sources.
ciscop for example was one of the first places I studied the shroud at because I wanted to start with the most biased websites in order to make sure I understood both sides of the coin.

Joe nickell is nothing more then a professional atheist and pseudo skeptic.
check and see what his scientific credentials are ?
check and see if he even has a 2 year degree in any scientific field.
no and no to both .

He even had the Gaul to try to debunk ray Rogers peer reviewed paper without even understanding the science behind it.
rogers schooled him and made him look like a kid. Ciscop doesn't rely on science. They are basically an atheist kept if site whose job is to deny anything that is evidence for god and against methodological naturalism.
Ill repeat again check the peer reviewed research papers. Sturp has authored most of them and they are almost all scientists from every world view.

yiu guys are trying to get me addicted to this forum.

if you want a lot more detailed info there is a long running thread on the godandscience forum
Right. If you can't attack the content, attack the source. :roll:

STURP is hardly a bastion of unbiased scientists as you make them out to be. Fine, disregard the Csicop article, what about the other two? Your bias is still quite evident. Why should we accept what you say any more than Nickell? BTW, WTF is a 'psuedo-skeptic?' Is that the charge you level at a skeptic when they ask questions you have trouble answering? So much easier to throw out ads hominem rather than admit to not knowing, amirite?


Funny how you on one hand decry the poor treatment the shroud is given by a skeptical group yet you direct me to clearly biased pro-authenticity, pro-theistic websites 'for more detailed information.'
You're the one that came here to this site to offer up your opinion. The least you should be able to do is support it without making us wade through hundreds of pages of arguments on another forum.
 

sworth

Well-Known Member
True I did come across as a dik, but did you ever consider how you came across when your bringing those silly examples such as the image of Jesus on a peanut butter sandwich. Don't you think that maybe these rediculous examples made you come across as a dik also?

But sometimes a dramatic post can really catch your attention wouldn't it? ;)
i know your post caught my attention and mine caught yours as well.
by the way I support weed for medicinal purposes :)
Peanut sandwich? :?

And even if I had, your thinking of someone as a "dick" for being wrong says a whole lot...

The loudest axe in the forest has the bluntest blade.
 

  • It's also been hypothesised that the patch we tested was a modern repair, but most of us agree that's implausible, because the weave is very unusual and matches the rest of the shroud perfectly.







Then you agree based on ignorance and denial of the chemical analysis done by a chemical expert who had his results submitted for peer review, which leads me to believe that your most likely a dogmatic atheists.
true research of the shroud will cause the atheist to deny reason, logic and history in order to hold onto his silly world view that has no ultimate hope, no ultimate love and no ultimate reason. In other words to exposes them for the very hypocrites that they claim fundamentalists have. I'm a catholic and I believe that faith and reason go hand in hand.
The shroud exposes atheism as an emotional, non rational and anti science world view. Isn't it beautiful :)
it brings the intellectually arrogant to their knees.

the peer reviewed chemical analysis clearly shows the rest of the shroud is much older than the c14 test corner. The c14 tests isn't at fault, they tested what was given to them, but if they had followed STURPS protocol this problem would have been solved.
the seculars who muscled the STURP team out of the c14 testing violated many protocols.
the head of the C14 testing was also caught in a lie. He had sent a letter to a museum asking for a cloth that looked similar to the shroud but dated from the 16th century, he at fits denied this but when the letter was produced he finally admitted to it.

and you are 100% incorrect on the corner weave looking like the rest. It was dyed to look like the rest, but even the weave was different, the chemical analysis and the madder dye Rogers found sealed the deal.
you my friend are speaking from a position of ignorance while I am speaking from a position of facts and 4 years of studying the shroud myself, but if you hate the truth so much you can cling to your lie.

there is no image like this on earth. If the shroud was wrapped around Jesus the image would have come out cylindrical instead of how it came out on the shroud . All of the evidence points to this image not being the product of cloth to body contact.
the image shows no dorsal body compression so he couldn't have been laying down with his dorsal parts laying on the stone.
the hair doesn't flow as if he was laying down in a horizontal position.

How many people who buried in a burial cloth throughout history, yet this is the only burial shroud with any image at all.
many were buried with burial oils, but oils don't produce images with 3d spatial encoded information, X-ray information and an image produced by a some kind of columnated process that produces no side images at all.

even the most advanced technology available to science today can't replicate this image.
plus it fits the gospel account of Christs torture,crucifixion and burial to the letter.
no middle age forger could have had access to this information.
all middle age paintings of Christs crucifixion depict the nails going through the palm of the hand, and the shroud clearly violates all middle age knowledge of Christs crucifixion by showing the nail going through the wrist in the space of destot .

Try to find the thumbs on the shroud image. You won't because it doesn't show them . Forensic experts know that placing a nail through the space of destot would cause in inward flexon of the thumb. The thumbs can't be seen on the shroud image because then thumbs are flexing inward exactly how they would be if a nail is placed through the space of destot .

the markings on the images body fit perfectly with the roman whip the flagrum. The flagrum is designed to tear into the skin and stick to it when it is pulled back to the person doing the torturing it takes a piece of skin with it.The image shows a man in rigor mortis which means he is clearly dead but only on that shroud for at most 40 hours. Sound familiar???????? ;)
p

the more you dig into the shroud the more you will be addicted to it. No person in recorded history was crucified like Christ and the man on the shroud was. The evidence for the shroud image being Jesus is overwhelming, but like I said, the shroud isn't for anti logic and anti science atheists. It's for honest seekers of truth.

mark antonacci is one such man. He was a happy go lucky agnostic lawyer with a Christian girlfriend, but he got so sick and tired of her and her preaching that he set out to prove to her that Christianity was a fairy tale in order to get her to stop believing.
he was waiting in line in lunch and he saw a magazine with the picture of the shroud on the front cover. He tried to ignore it but he could take his eyes off of it. He then said ok ill look at the f'ing thing.
he decided his first target would be debunking the shroud.
20 years later he not only failed in his mission to prove his girlfriend wrong, but the evidence of the shroud was so ooverwhelming that he himself converted to Christianity and wrote a book called the resurrection of the shroud, and actually just recently got his first peer reviewed paper passed on the shroud. Some feat for a former agnostic lawyer isn't it?

there is a video on YouTube from many years back done by Kenneth Stevenson the head spokesperson of the STURP science team explaining in detail sone of the forensic evidence found on the image. Ill try to find it again.
 
Peanut sandwich? :?

And even if I had, your thinking of someone as a "dick" for being wrong says a whole lot...

The loudest axe in the forest has the bluntest blade.
its not about being wrong man, it's about rediculing some crazy things and then attributing those things to Christianity.
now that you are starting the understand how the shroud is different from those silly non scientific Jesus sandwich image claims you are starting to see things in a different light. If yiu have succeeded in doing this then you are on your path to truth, if it means I have to be a slight dik about it, I'd rather see you think that and be in an eternity of joy then you liking me and not being there.
i have thick skin. If I can stay a virgin for 45 years I can take almost anythinglol
 
Right. If you can't attack the content, attack the source. :roll:

STURP is hardly a bastion of unbiased scientists as you make them out to be. Fine, disregard the Csicop article, what about the other two? Your bias is still quite evident. Why should we accept what you say any more than Nickell? BTW, WTF is a 'psuedo-skeptic?' Is that the charge you level at a skeptic when they ask questions you have trouble answering? So much easier to throw out ads hominem rather than admit to not knowing, amirite?


Funny how you on one hand decry the poor treatment the shroud is given by a skeptical group yet you direct me to clearly biased pro-authenticity, pro-theistic websites 'for more detailed information.'
You're the one that came here to this site to offer up your opinion. The least you should be able to do is support it without making us wade through hundreds of pages of arguments on another forum.
A pseudo skeptic is a skeptic that gets his skepticism through anti reasonable, anti logical and ant scientific means. This is a dogmatic pseudo skeptic.
notice that they don't get or have any peer reviewed research. I'm attacking their science which is non existent.
As I said before I have already looked at these sources many years ago, and cube computing is a site lead by a guy that
Keeps insisting that the shroud was made from a scorch even though the scorch theory was debunked a long time ago.
he puts the theory forth, and on to of that he won't even test the theory and no atheist organization will even fund the test.
this is as far from real science as you get.

And you as saying that the sturp team is hardly biased, shows you have done no research into them.
If you did then you would have realized that 25 percent of the sturp team was composed of agnostics and men of all worldview.
ciscop still uses Walter Mccrones research in their site. If you had done any research on Mccrone you would have known that he was the only atheist on the team who said the blood on the shroud was paint. Something that he could only see and no other scientist could see. When other scientists asked to see where he spotted blood he not only couldn't show them but got angry at the, for daring to question his results. He couldn't even get any of his research to pass peer review . Rogers was very disappointed that he invited Mccrone along because his atheism was clouding his judgment to do real science. Alan Adler a top blood chemist on the sturp team did the more sofisticated chemical analysis and plain,y found that the red stuff on the shroud was human blood.
Adler was Jewish and had every reason to be biased against the shroud but unlike the atheist he stayed true to being a scientist. Alders work passed peer review. Mccrones didn't. What does that tell you about ciscop?
As I suspected your atheism is clouding your judgement . The last atheist who went at it with me about the shroud was actually a very honest atheist, but he was no longer an atheist after our debate but an agnostic with possibilities.

now u can keep sticking to the non peer reviewed research like most atheist do, or u can choose to follow the evidence where it leads u to like an open minded truth seeker would.

shroud.com has all of the peer review papers on their site



The STURP TEAM consisted of scientists and experts from all worldview, Muslim, Protestant , agnostic, Mormon etc.
Your post is clearly from a position of emotional ignorance. You see that a lot with the new atheists of today .
no wonder why the most respected atheist philosopher of the last half of the 20th century doctor Antony flew converted away from atheism and became a deist and wrote a book called there is a God.
 
I know i shouldn't, but ... how, and with how what of power? How to tap it? Heck ... how to even measure it? Instrument, units, dimensions? How do we subject the proposition to test? cn
Interesting question canna. Recently they also found holographic information on the shroud , and once they will be able to uncover all of the holographic information on the shroud they will be able to create a whole image of the shroud from even the tiniest part of it. Doctor Petrus Soons submitted this research to a lab in holland, and this is the information , once fully uncovered will make epic waves throughout this planet. If or when all of the holographic info is found it will show that the this event was projected throughout the universe, because holographic info is known to be available non locally. It could mean that the resurrection is a universal event .

think about it. What happened with the image of the man on the shroud fits perfect with 2 events in the bible, the transfiguration of Christ where he was able to transcend this reality and communicate with Moses and Elijah and how he could get into locked homes
to be with his disciples. The evidence on the shroud itself points to the man on the shroud getting off of the shroud in a very unnatural way, leaving no broken or smeared blood clots.
i hope some of the more open minded folks on here will research the shroud more.
He shroud isn't for atheists who have already made up their minds to ignore the wealth of evidence pointing towards authenticity .
if the evidence points to Christ then you have a very important choice to make don't you .
good night everyone and sorry for coming off with such a tough attitude :)
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Then you agree based on ignorance and denial of the chemical analysis done by a chemical expert who had his results submitted for peer review, which leads me to believe that your most likely a dogmatic atheists.
It's not based on ignorance, it's based on the opinion of Professor Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit and other professionals in the field. The rogue opinion of one academic isn't is credible as the overwhelming opinions of professionals in the field.

true research of the shroud will cause the atheist to deny reason, logic and history in order to hold onto his silly world view that has no ultimate hope, no ultimate love and no ultimate reason. In other words to exposes them for the very hypocrites that they claim fundamentalists have. I'm a catholic and I believe that faith and reason go hand in hand.
You're incorrect. Faith is believing something in the absence of evidence. You need faith, because there is no proof.

The shroud exposes atheism as an emotional, non rational and anti science world view. Isn't it beautiful :)
it brings the intellectually arrogant to their knees.

the peer reviewed chemical analysis clearly shows the rest of the shroud is much older than the c14 test corner. The c14 tests isn't at fault, they tested what was given to them, but if they had followed STURPS protocol this problem would have been solved.
The scientists examined the sample they were given as well as the rest of the shroud.

the seculars who muscled the STURP team out of the c14 testing violated many protocols.
the head of the C14 testing was also caught in a lie. He had sent a letter to a museum asking for a cloth that looked similar to the shroud but dated from the 16th century, he at fits denied this but when the letter was produced he finally admitted to it.
Where is this documented? lol

and you are 100% incorrect on the corner weave looking like the rest. It was dyed to look like the rest, but even the weave was different, the chemical analysis and the madder dye Rogers found sealed the deal.
you my friend are speaking from a position of ignorance while I am speaking from a position of facts and 4 years of studying the shroud myself, but if you hate the truth so much you can cling to your lie.
Your 'studies' are hardly academic. Do you have access to the materials yourself?

there is no image like this on earth. If the shroud was wrapped around Jesus the image would have come out cylindrical instead of how it came out on the shroud . All of the evidence points to this image not being the product of cloth to body contact.
the image shows no dorsal body compression so he couldn't have been laying down with his dorsal parts laying on the stone.
the hair doesn't flow as if he was laying down in a horizontal position.


How many people who buried in a burial cloth throughout history, yet this is the only burial shroud with any image at all.
many were buried with burial oils, but oils don't produce images with 3d spatial encoded information, X-ray information and an image produced by a some kind of columnated process that produces no side images at all.
Argument from ignorance. We don't know how it was done, therefore; God.

even the most advanced technology available to science today can't replicate this image.
plus it fits the gospel account of Christs torture,crucifixion and burial to the letter.
no middle age forger could have had access to this information.
Another argument from ignorance. Just because we can't figure something out doesn't mean it's outer-worldly.

all middle age paintings of Christs crucifixion depict the nails going through the palm of the hand, and the shroud clearly violates all middle age knowledge of Christs crucifixion by showing the nail going through the wrist in the space of destot .

Try to find the thumbs on the shroud image. You won't because it doesn't show them . Forensic experts know that placing a nail through the space of destot would cause in inward flexon of the thumb. The thumbs can't be seen on the shroud image because then thumbs are flexing inward exactly how they would be if a nail is placed through the space of destot .
This is all circumstantial.

the markings on the images body fit perfectly with the roman whip the flagrum. The flagrum is designed to tear into the skin and stick to it when it is pulled back to the person doing the torturing it takes a piece of skin with it.The image shows a man in rigor mortis which means he is clearly dead but only on that shroud for at most 40 hours. Sound familiar???????? ;)
This is all circumstantial.

the more you dig into the shroud the more you will be addicted to it. No person in recorded history was crucified like Christ and the man on the shroud was. The evidence for the shroud image being Jesus is overwhelming, but like I said, the shroud isn't for anti logic and anti science atheists. It's for honest seekers of truth.
You mean apologetics...

mark antonacci is one such man. He was a happy go lucky agnostic lawyer with a Christian girlfriend, but he got so sick and tired of her and her preaching that he set out to prove to her that Christianity was a fairy tale in order to get her to stop believing.
he was waiting in line in lunch and he saw a magazine with the picture of the shroud on the front cover. He tried to ignore it but he could take his eyes off of it. He then said ok ill look at the f'ing thing.
he decided his first target would be debunking the shroud.
20 years later he not only failed in his mission to prove his girlfriend wrong, but the evidence of the shroud was so ooverwhelming that he himself converted to Christianity and wrote a book called the resurrection of the shroud, and actually just recently got his first peer reviewed paper passed on the shroud. Some feat for a former agnostic lawyer isn't it?
A lawyer couldn't prove it wasn't fake, and that's supposed to make me believe it's real? You have no idea what logic is, let alone knowing enough about it to preach to me about it.

there is a video on YouTube from many years back done by Kenneth Stevenson the head spokesperson of the STURP science team explaining in detail sone of the forensic evidence found on the image. Ill try to find it again.
The vast majority of scientists, even with the 'peer-reviewed' articles published by 'Ray', still believe it's a fraud.
 

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
"In his paper, Ray Rogers relies on papers that were neither peer-reviewed nor published in legitimate scientific journals for his belief that the radiocarbon date was taken from a patch ingeniously rewoven into the Shroud linen so that its presence could not be detected. The authors of these papers, M. S. Benford and J. G. Marino, claim that a patch of 16th century material with a weave identical to the Shroud's was undetectably spliced into the 1st century Shroud to give it a 13th century date. But this is nonsense. It is certainly a remarkable coincidence that, according to these authors, their claimed rewoven patch--when combined with "original" Shroud cloth in the proportions subjectively determined by unnamed "textile experts" looking at photographs!--just happens to give an early 14th century date, the same as the date actually measured by radiocarbon dating! Amazing. But in fact the mixture of 16th and 1st century cloth would give a date much younger than the 14th century (about 7th century). The date obtained by the separate university radiocarbon labs exactly matches the date obtained by independent historical analysis, i.e. the early 14th century date when the Shroud first appeared and is believed by Shroud skeptics to be created by a late medieval artist, thus mutually supporting both dates. Benford and Marino submitted their ridiculous speculations in a paper to the scientific journal Radiocarbon, but it was justifiably rejected after peer review. Now, Rogers uses the same mistaken and incompetent speculations to support his conclusions in a paper that was published in a different scientific journal, Thermochimica Acta. I conclude that peer review failed this time for this journal."
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Beef that was a good try... but unfortunately to no avail, for as we all know;

You cannot convince a believer of anything, for their belief is not based on evidence (or lack there of) it is based on a deep seated psychological need to believe.
 
Again beef , ray Rogers paper was peer reviewed, and he wasn't a rogue scientist, he was a senior fellow at Los alamos labs.
your also ignoring the evidence that there was no chemical analysis of the c14 piece to make sure it was indicative of the whole.
typical atheist response by someone who wants to ignore the evidence. Your also using old skeptical responses that majority of researchers have debunked a long time ago.

again ray Rogers actually did the chemical analysis tests on the different strand pieces of the shroud. Radio carbon did no such tests.
if radio carbon can produce those chemical analysis tests then please show them to us.
oh yea you can't and that means your whole argument fails because again your arguing from a position of ignorance, let me guess your an atheist. Your arguing that a peer reviewed test which didn't even follow protocol by doing a chemical analysis to make sure that the c14 tests were indicative of the whole can be compared to an actual scientist who actually performed the chemical analysis to show that the piece taken from the c14 area was younger then the rest of the shroud is rediculous, and then on top of that claiming that Rogers who is an expert in his field of chemical analysis is a rogue scientist. Sorry to tell you and your cheerleader that that arguing from ignorance doesn't make you right.
the c14 tests were done in 1988 , Rogers paper was accepted and passed peer review in the chemical journal thermochimica acta in
2005. In fact the majority of scientists no accept Rogers work as the most up to date until further tests are shown.
And if you had done any research at all yiu would have known that all of the other evidences match up with an older date of the shroud and not a
 
Continued
and not a newer date.
the almost perfect congruent match of blood stains between the sudarium of oveido and the head image of the shroud of turin show that the shroud and sudarium went over the same body and the sudarium's first written historical account show it to be a minimum from the 6th century.
the shrouds match up in the light raking experiments show that it was most likely also called the mandylion and written history shows that it was talked about in the 6th century and the legend of Akbar take it all the way to 1st century Jerusalem .

the cloth is a 3way herringbone weave which fell out of style in the mid 2nd century and was used during the time of Christ.
As I said the shroud is the atheist's worse night mare and the smarter atheists usually stay away from it.
looks like beef is from the garden variety.
Beef just answer a simple question moro oops I meant atheist,
WAS THERE A CHEMICAL ANAYSIS DONE ON THE C14 PIECE TO COMPARE IT TO THE REST OF THE SHROUD?
simple yes or no would suffice .

maybe your little cheerleader can answer that question?
then again I think you both will ignore it.
 
Beef that was a good try... but unfortunately to no avail, for as we all know;

You cannot convince a believer of anything, for their belief is not based on evidence (or lack there of) it is based on a deep seated psychological need to believe.
Zaehet, using emotional attacks is typical of atheists becaus their worldview is based on nothing but emotions .
unfortunately emotions don't trump science and reason.

the problem with atheists is that they tend to ignore that the scientific method was born out of a Christian worldview and even the atheist Sinologist Joseph Needham admitted to this.

this is why when the atheist is presented with evidence like the shroud they will usually ignore it or stop posting.
it looks like ur bf beef is choosing the former method.

after going through his post I have to ask where's the beef?
 
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