Should expiration dates be used on recreational cannabis?

tstick said:

Maybe some of the psychoactive components can last a long time...but terpenes are volatile and will evaporate (volatilize) over time. So, it depends on which components you happen to like....I happen to like rich flavors and terpenes. Something from the mummy's tomb may be smokeable, but it isn't going to have any terpenes left.

Marijuana flavor does change and eventually expire over time. It's like anything else. Even if you put it in the best of storage conditions, it will degrade. It's just that some methods will slow down the degradation better than other methods....and the methods used to sell it over a retail counter are not going to facilitate a very long-term viability.

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And, again, not contesting, but what do you think of the notion in my previous response?

Olive Drab Green said:

See, though--and not to disagree with you--but the longer you cure/"ferment" it, while not too wet, not too dry? That's where the taste comes from. When you smoke fresh weed, you can taste the chlorophyll. You want it to break down, and if I'm not mistaken, for the terpenes to "ferment."

That's why if you dry too quickly, you've just made yourself some mids.

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Fresh as a baseline of after 4 weeks of correct cure.

SouthCross said:

Fresh as after a baseline of after 4 weeks of correct cure.

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I see.

We need a starting point for the clock.

tstick said:

I feel like I have a bit of an advantage to trying many different strains of flowers because I live in a legal state and the stores are FULL of product.

But I often find that recreational buds are kept on the shelf longer than they should be and often come out dry as a bone and crumble like dust.

I recently bought a sample bud from a store that I hadn't been to before and noticed after the fact that the harvest date was from last December! Granted, I do realize that flowers can be stored for a long time -when does properly...But since quality isn't at the forefront of recreational marijuana, you basically get what they sell you.

What are the ramifications of putting a "Sell By:" date or an expiration date of some kind? Increased prices? More waste?

Discuss.

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I know a guy who works at a weed shop. When the edibles on the shelf expire, they have to send them back to the manufacturer to be 'destroyed'. This often ends up being a complete loss for the retailer. If you were to put an expiration date on bud, you could expect a similar return policy at the cost of the retailers. This could increase prices, or it could lead to a more narrow menu. I think a best by date would be cool. Retailers could have clearance sales for bud that is approaching or past it's best by date. Perhaps we'll see more standards implemented in the future. For now, in my state (WA), a harvest date is legally required on all packages of bud. You might be able to use that as a guide line.

I think if there was a graph to show marijuana viability (for both psychoactive ingredient and terpenes), the graph would probably look like a bell curve -where the "peak" would be somewhere around a month in the jar at the proper humidity. After that, I think the terpene profile would change -some chlorophyl would oxidize and other terpenes would become more pronounced...to a point....and then after a point, those terpenes would volatilize, too.

A starting point would be at harvest. That way, a consumer could purchase it fresh and then properly store it from that point onward. Older, improperly processed/stored weed would just continue to get worse and worse as time went on.

I think this is a common misunderstanding of weed getting better over time....Yes, it can get better to a point, but in order to achieve that, it must be processed correctly from the start. Quick-dried/improperly processed weed will not improve over time. Once the curing process is compromised, it will just degrade after that and there is no hope to re-start the curing process.

tstick said:

I think if there was a graph to show marijuana viability (for both psychoactive ingredient and terpenes), the graph would probably look like a bell curve -where the "peak" would be somewhere around a month in the jar at the proper humidity. After that, I think the terpene profile would change -some chlorophyl would oxidize and other terpenes would become more pronounced...to a point....and then after a point, those terpenes would volatilize, too.

A starting point would be at harvest. That way, a consumer could purchase it fresh and then properly store it from that point onward. Older, improperly processed/stored weed would just continue to get worse and worse as time went on.

I think this is a common misunderstanding of weed getting better over time....Yes, it can get better to a point, but in order to achieve that, it must be processed correctly from the start. Quick-dried/improperly processed weed will not improve over time. Once the curing process is compromised, it will just degrade after that and there is no hope to re-start the curing process.

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Thank you for an objective and informative response.

Wine, for example, can be highly variable in quality, too. For the people who are really into it, they can pick out all the subtle nuances of the grapes, the type of wood that was used to age the wine and all kinds of stuff that would go right past most anyone else. But it is real for them and it is very important to their enjoyment. That's why some people who are tuned into it will pay an extreme amount of money to taste those flavors and experience something that not everyone else will ever know (or care) about.

I have gotten high so many years that getting high isn't really even what I'm looking for from marijuana, anymore. I'm looking for flavors in marijuana that are along the same lines of what some wine people are looking for in wine. I don't smoke to see how "fucked up" I can get. I smoke because I really like the flavor of some strains and I like tasting them. I mean, yeah, I know I'm going to get high, too, but I'm no stranger to getting high, so it's not a big deal to expect that feeling to come from smoking. It's a given (mostly) that I'm going to get high. The flavors, however, do change from strain-to-strain....and I'm a flavor guy. So that's what I look for.

But, as pertaining to this discussion, the preservation of flavor for the consumer, in a recreational marijuana market, is often neglected because of the way the business has to be run. The quality of the flavors are compromised because of improper processing and also because of the packaging in many instances, too. Large growers don't have a cool room full of curing jars with a staff of people going around and burping jars to get the cure jusssst right. They basically dry the buds to the point they can safely package them and away they go to the retailers' shelves where they may sit for months in warm, bright rooms degrading, oxidizing, volatilizing and ultimately becoming unpleasant to smoke -even though it will still get you high.

Bakeries do it all the time with day old bread and baked goods...They reduce the price and then they throw it out after a couple days. If they kept the stuff around for weeks, the bread would be hard as a brick -although you could still get nourishment from it.

There's absolutely no reason dried flower can't be stored long term without any major losses. As long as it's stored properly, it should maintain moisture and terpenes. Sealed in nitrogen would be ideal.

As an example, there's 20, 30, 50+yr old cigars that have been kept preserved through proper storage, our product isn't that much different.

Most dispensaries are, probably, more concerned with turnover, which makes $$$, than proper storage, which costs $$$.

I think it's probably a good idea. It will drive new methods in the industry, which others have noted is driven by turnover.

For example, most bars that serve tap beers have evolved to putting more burden on the beer distributors. It's not uncommon for a distributor to buy taps and lines for a bar to ensure the bar will buy their product. They will also maintain the system, cleaning the lines and pulling old kegs to keep the beer fresh. All of that is built into the cost of the beer, yet it is a common practice.

So if a dispensary puts enough pressure on a grower, the grower will supply jars and bovida packs, monitor the stock, and pull old product. They may also provide pre-packaged weights in mylar with notrogen purge. It won't be $1/gm, but it will stay fresh on the shelves, and it will ensure that a grower will be able to maintain shelf space at dispensaries.

IMO if they gonna sell you old product and it has no smell and when you break it up its super dry and turns into powder then just don't buy from them again, there's a ton of dispensaries so the shitty ones always seem to die off.

Yodaweed said:

IMO if they gonna sell you old product and it has no smell and when you break it up its super dry and turns into powder then just don't buy from them again, there's a ton of dispensaries so the shitty ones always seem to die off.

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Recreational stores are different from dispensaries. The rec stores' products are all pre-packaged, so you can't really get a read on the products until after you buy them at least once...and, depending on your experience, you can choose to buy again or not...But you don't get any opportunity to smell or poke a bud to pre-check it at a rec store.

That's why I'm saying that a "use by_______" date might be helpful -especially if you're interested in terpenes....because that's what will go first.

Expired weed could be returned to the processor and they could turn it into bubble hash/rosin or some other product after the flowers get past that date.

tstick said:

Recreational stores are different from dispensaries. The rec stores' products are all pre-packaged, so you can't really get a read on the products until after you buy them at least once...and, depending on your experience, you can choose to buy again or not...But you don't get any opportunity to smell or poke a bud to pre-check it at a rec store.

That's why I'm saying that a "use by_______" date might be helpful -especially if you're interested in terpenes....because that's what will go first.

Expired weed could be returned to the processor and they could turn it into bubble hash/rosin or some other product after the flowers get past that date.

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Yeah i know what you are saying i have had similar experiences with dispensaries but i just don't go back to one of i'm not happy, expiration dates might work for some but in my opinion if you properly store cannabis it can last for years (sealed container with a humidity pak in it) so i'm not sure how they could say when it's bad? I think you might just be buying from some crappy dispensaries that don't properly dry/ cure and store their products.

Yodaweed said:

Yeah i know what you are saying i have had similar experiences with dispensaries but i just don't go back to one of i'm not happy, expiration dates might work for some but in my opinion if you properly store cannabis it can last for years (sealed container with a humidity pak in it) so i'm not sure how they could say when it's bad? I think you might just be buying from some crappy dispensaries that don't properly dry/ cure and store their products.

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Maybe I should start a thread for a "Consumer's Report" type of thing where people who have had good/bad experiences at dispensaries and rec stores, could recommend them and the products that are consistently good....because I could report TONS of examples of bad experiences -in fact I would go so far as to say that most of my experiences at buying flowers from rec stores has been bad! I only recently found ONE brand of flower (and only ONE strain from that brand) that I consider to be good.

tstick said:

Maybe I should start a thread for a "Consumer's Report" type of thing where people who have had good/bad experiences at dispensaries and rec stores, could recommend them and the products that are consistently good....because I could report TONS of examples of bad experiences -in fact I would go so far as to say that most of my experiences at buying flowers from rec stores has been bad! I only recently found ONE brand of flower (and only ONE strain from that brand) that I consider to be good.

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Yea there's not a whole heck of a lot of A+ quality buds to be found at dispensaries because of the turn around times .

tstick said:

and often come out dry as a bone and crumble like dust.

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simply the best.