Severe Aeroponic Root Rot Problem!
- Thread starter ice52us
- Start date
wolftickets500
Member
you might want to water them less i have watered every two to three hours for an hour at a time.
WIld Wayne
Member
I too am having a problem that hasn't shown up before. Since I moved my res into the flower room, I think that the res temp are too high, my girls flourished. Now they are wilting and turning yellow I don't like the looks of the roost either. They are brown and mushy, not white and perky like they should be. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
fatman7574
New Member
Tilt your tubes so that the water moves more quickly through the tubes and do not decrease the flow. Your water is dropping down to zero DO within the roots masses as it attempts to flow through all the the root masses laying in the bottom of your little tubes. The problem will be especaiily bad if they are round tubes as the root mass piles up deeper in round tubes as they have less room to spread than in sqare tubes with a wide flat bottom surface. Even they usually have root rot problens with large root masses. Small tube aeros should really be restricted to just SOG and SCROg at most. You can extend it a bit by continual use of Chlorine at low a low concentration like 0.5 ppm.
Most of the water sprayed into the tubes actually flows over and around the roots masses and there for only supplies DO to the roots at the tube top and outter top layer of roots not touching the tubes. The water that is actually penetratiing and running through your root masses and between the tubes and the roots is being stripped of nearly all or even all of the DO before exiting the tubes. If you checked inside your tubes when the problem of root rot first startedy ou would have found that it was worse at the ends of the tube nearest the drain than the beginning. The water at the beginning only ran over and some through the few roots at the beginning of the tube so that water still contained DO through that passage. However then it enters the second root mass where it slowly moved through the mass and loss more or even all its DO. From that point on the water moving through the rest of the root masses likely contained very little or no DO as the water running over the top does not supply much if any DO more than a few mm into the roots mass laying in the bottom of the tubes.
Another alternative may sound drastic but cut the tubes down to half as long and add another drain like a gutter to cath the drinage and send it back to the resrvoir so all the DO will not restripped out of the nutrient water before it reaches the end of the tubes. If you could seperate the water on top of the roots versus coming from within the roots or under the roots you would find only the water running on top of the roots is exiting the tubes with any appreciable DO. This top water as it mixes with the other water that is very low to zero in DO makes it appear like all the water has suffient DO. That is not the case however or you would not have root rot. Root rot is caused by the plants not getting sufficient DO. It has nothing to do with temp iexcept that the warmer water starts with less DO, but no system should ever require the amount of DO deliver at any reasonable temperatures. Even 104 degree water holds 6.41 ppm of DO, which is more than a mj plants needs even growinfg at that temp with CO2 and intense lights.
The problem is not that you are not supplying enough DO or that the temp of the water is too high. It is ap roblem common to aero small tube sytems where the root masses are large. Lowering the temp say from 85 degrees F to 65 degrees F will at most only raise the DO about 25% percent at the reservoir. Considering that palnts do not even need DO above 2 ppm at most raising your ppm form 7.5 to 9.5 ppm will make little difference if your aero system is laraeady casuing water to loose 200% more DO then the plants really need. So it is not a low DO problem but poor system design. Even the boost in DO ppm will not likely make up for such design problems.
Some growers, mj growing book sites and even retailers just clutch on to foolish myths and leave teeth and claw marks in ever one they finally let go of. My e aero systems never have root rot. One reason is I do not grow in small tubes. My tubes are 8 inches wide and 23 inches tall. Even then I have silk screen cloth covering the bottom of the tubes so that water can flow easily under the roots as needed. I grow only SOG in the tubes so my roots seldom accumalate in the tube bottoms. I use medium pressure and therefore have more hair roots and less large long roots. I also always use chlorine at 0.5 ppm to 1.0 ppm. I use drain to waste and only mist intermittant. Small tube aeros are really closer to being NTF than aero as most of the roots after a few weeks of growth are laying in water like NTF, not hanging in air as aero roots should. It does not take n much longer before the root masses are large enough that the roots are mostly in low to zero DO water where they start rotting. The rot usually starts getting bad about the beginning to mid budding stage when the roots are at their largest volume. By the time the rot gets this bad there can be help but definitely no cure. Expect lower yields and lower potency from the e aero buds. I would seroiusly consider using some chlorine or H2O2 for a few days to lower the bacterial levels and slow the progression of the root rot. The dead root tissue supplies food to both oxygen lovind and oxygen hating bacteria. With root rot be present you have lots of both in your whole system now.
Most of the water sprayed into the tubes actually flows over and around the roots masses and there for only supplies DO to the roots at the tube top and outter top layer of roots not touching the tubes. The water that is actually penetratiing and running through your root masses and between the tubes and the roots is being stripped of nearly all or even all of the DO before exiting the tubes. If you checked inside your tubes when the problem of root rot first startedy ou would have found that it was worse at the ends of the tube nearest the drain than the beginning. The water at the beginning only ran over and some through the few roots at the beginning of the tube so that water still contained DO through that passage. However then it enters the second root mass where it slowly moved through the mass and loss more or even all its DO. From that point on the water moving through the rest of the root masses likely contained very little or no DO as the water running over the top does not supply much if any DO more than a few mm into the roots mass laying in the bottom of the tubes.
Another alternative may sound drastic but cut the tubes down to half as long and add another drain like a gutter to cath the drinage and send it back to the resrvoir so all the DO will not restripped out of the nutrient water before it reaches the end of the tubes. If you could seperate the water on top of the roots versus coming from within the roots or under the roots you would find only the water running on top of the roots is exiting the tubes with any appreciable DO. This top water as it mixes with the other water that is very low to zero in DO makes it appear like all the water has suffient DO. That is not the case however or you would not have root rot. Root rot is caused by the plants not getting sufficient DO. It has nothing to do with temp iexcept that the warmer water starts with less DO, but no system should ever require the amount of DO deliver at any reasonable temperatures. Even 104 degree water holds 6.41 ppm of DO, which is more than a mj plants needs even growinfg at that temp with CO2 and intense lights.
The problem is not that you are not supplying enough DO or that the temp of the water is too high. It is ap roblem common to aero small tube sytems where the root masses are large. Lowering the temp say from 85 degrees F to 65 degrees F will at most only raise the DO about 25% percent at the reservoir. Considering that palnts do not even need DO above 2 ppm at most raising your ppm form 7.5 to 9.5 ppm will make little difference if your aero system is laraeady casuing water to loose 200% more DO then the plants really need. So it is not a low DO problem but poor system design. Even the boost in DO ppm will not likely make up for such design problems.
Some growers, mj growing book sites and even retailers just clutch on to foolish myths and leave teeth and claw marks in ever one they finally let go of. My e aero systems never have root rot. One reason is I do not grow in small tubes. My tubes are 8 inches wide and 23 inches tall. Even then I have silk screen cloth covering the bottom of the tubes so that water can flow easily under the roots as needed. I grow only SOG in the tubes so my roots seldom accumalate in the tube bottoms. I use medium pressure and therefore have more hair roots and less large long roots. I also always use chlorine at 0.5 ppm to 1.0 ppm. I use drain to waste and only mist intermittant. Small tube aeros are really closer to being NTF than aero as most of the roots after a few weeks of growth are laying in water like NTF, not hanging in air as aero roots should. It does not take n much longer before the root masses are large enough that the roots are mostly in low to zero DO water where they start rotting. The rot usually starts getting bad about the beginning to mid budding stage when the roots are at their largest volume. By the time the rot gets this bad there can be help but definitely no cure. Expect lower yields and lower potency from the e aero buds. I would seroiusly consider using some chlorine or H2O2 for a few days to lower the bacterial levels and slow the progression of the root rot. The dead root tissue supplies food to both oxygen lovind and oxygen hating bacteria. With root rot be present you have lots of both in your whole system now.
Thank you for your reply, fatman. It is detailed and comprehensible. I believe you are talking about the aeroflow system? I cannot see the image Wild Wayne posted, as it appears to be broken, but I believe it was of an aeroflo system. It makes me question my next grow room design.
I am still, however, missing closure on my current issue. Root rot is present... right now!!! I have tried some peroxide.... without avail. What can I do to get the plants beautifull and blossoming again like the rest?!?!?!
P.S... They are almost dead now... only a short time to live.... their life is in your hands...!!
I am still, however, missing closure on my current issue. Root rot is present... right now!!! I have tried some peroxide.... without avail. What can I do to get the plants beautifull and blossoming again like the rest?!?!?!
P.S... They are almost dead now... only a short time to live.... their life is in your hands...!!
fatman7574
New Member
Ak ll you can really do is treat with chlorine or H2O2. Either wat it will takes daily treatment right up untill just before you harvest. Your roots will not recon ver. Hopefully you can just l keep then working well enough to finish the budding. It is easier to over dose withthe H2O2 as it is a stronger oxidizer. It will if over dosed kill both healthy and unhealthy roots. H2O2 so I do not rememnber the dosage.
I use chlorox. To use household strength unscented Chlorox remenber a drop is equal to 0.06 ml.
I would recommend you start with 2.5 ppm. That means 4 drops per gallon. As a drop is equal to 0.06 ml, that means a teaspoon at 5 ml holds 83 drops. So if your resrevoir is 21 gallons one teaspoon would mean a concentration of 2.5 ppm. I do not remember your reservoir capacity. That would be the first dosage. Run that ppm for two or three hours and dump the resrvoir. add new water and nutrients and pH balance. Add another dose to bring the chlorine level up to 2.5 ppm. after that do not dump the resrvoir but add a tad less than 1/4 th as much chlorox daily.
I use chlorox. To use household strength unscented Chlorox remenber a drop is equal to 0.06 ml.
I would recommend you start with 2.5 ppm. That means 4 drops per gallon. As a drop is equal to 0.06 ml, that means a teaspoon at 5 ml holds 83 drops. So if your resrevoir is 21 gallons one teaspoon would mean a concentration of 2.5 ppm. I do not remember your reservoir capacity. That would be the first dosage. Run that ppm for two or three hours and dump the resrvoir. add new water and nutrients and pH balance. Add another dose to bring the chlorine level up to 2.5 ppm. after that do not dump the resrvoir but add a tad less than 1/4 th as much chlorox daily.