Sell me on switching to LED

Darth you make an important point about efficiency, it is not all about payback time in terms of electrical savings from the light alone (unless you are in very high electrical cost area like Hawaii, LA, NYC etc). Looking at the bigger picture, it is about heat and heat management.

1000W DE HPS bare in a 4X4 = 950 PPFD and 690W of waste heat
600W of LED @ 56% efficiency in a 4X4 = 940 PPFD and 298 W of waste heat

Less than half the heat and the LED will yield significantly more in this example along with much higher quality and much less AC, ventilation, circulation etc. A clever grower can use this tech to increase total yields and the LED will pay for itself in days or weeks.

For closet/tent growers, they can double the efficacy of a 1000W DE HPS and squeeze it into a small space without giant ducting or powerful fans. For shed/garage/barn growers they can decrease heat signature increasing stealth that way. Lots of great uses for the tech and efficiency can go much higher than 56% without breaking the bank.

Darth Vapour said:

lol yup like i said LED does grow but when people start using the spectrum is going to get you better product or quality ,, that is when enough is enough spectrums help plant growth in all its stages has nothing to do with quality that comes with strain same thing applies for yields you can have a og strain that yields nothing or a Critical kush that will yield you out of this world

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kill yourself, hps has the least desirable spectrum and it blows yields out of the water....Photons....something for someone who supposedly doesn't live at home to figure out....

FYI I can copy and past mariguana plants from the interwebz all day too....

This isn't about light, what happened today Darth? Rough night on your rump?

SupraSPL said:

Darth you make an important point about efficiency, it is not all about payback time in terms of electrical savings from the light alone (unless you are in very high electrical cost area like Hawaii, LA, NYC etc). Looking at the bigger picture, it is about heat and heat management.

1000W DE HPS bare in a 4X4 = 950 PPFD and 690W of waste heat
600W of LED @ 56% efficiency in a 4X4 = 940 PPFD and 298 W of waste heat

Less than half the heat and the LED will yield significantly more in this example along with much higher quality and much less AC, ventilation, circulation etc. A clever grower can use this tech to increase total yields and the LED will pay for itself in days or weeks.

For closet/tent growers, they can double the efficacy of a 1000W DE HPS and squeeze it into a small space without giant ducting or powerful fans. For shed/garage/barn growers they can decrease heat signature increasing stealth that way. Lots of great uses for the tech and efficiency can go much higher than 56% without breaking the bank.

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Why would anyone need that wattage in a closet or small tent? 1000DE?? They can use a 400/600w light and depending on the environment, one fan to exhaust hot air and passively draw fresh air. You need at least 1 fan even with LED for air circulation

And since apparently no one in this thread believes anyone else can actually grow plants, here's my latest update I posted in my grow journal here:

LAST QUESTION!

All of these lights offer 3k, 4k, and 5k options. Is there a spectrum best suited for cannabis?

innerG said:

Why would anyone need that wattage in a closet or small tent? 1000DE?? They can use a 400/600w light and depending on the environment, one fan to exhaust hot air and passively draw fresh air. You need at least 1 fan even with LED for air circulation

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If I had a 1000W DE I would want it in a 4X4 to get the same intensity I get with COBs, and that tent would need some heavy duty equipment to keep the canopy in a reasonable temp range. A 600W cooled hood in a 4X4 gets you only 485 PPFD. That will get you some bud for sure, but why go with 485 when you can have 700-900?

But that is not the point I was making, the intensity and efficiency of a 1000W DE HPS is a benchmark, but it requires some heavy duty equipment (tubing inline fans AC dehumidifier etc). With LED you can achieve the same level of intensity in a 2X2 or even inside a PC. With LED you can scale it way down and get very good stealth. On the other hand you can blow out a warehouse with 1200 PPFD and half the heat if that is your thing.

Coco0503 said:

LAST QUESTION!

All of these lights offer 3k, 4k, and 5k options. Is there a spectrum best suited for cannabis?

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In general, cooler light is best for veg and it keeps internode distance short.

Warmer light (or mixed spectrum of you can do it) is preferred for flowering.

Both will get the job done though.

Does anyone have an opinion on California light works? The solar 220 looks like a pretty great light for my 2x2. I'm seeing solid reviews and successful grow journals. They also have that wild looking Solar Storm 880 which looks like a wet dream for a 4x4.

I'd recommend the 4000k. Lower is okay but I wouldn't go higher.

Coco0503 said:

Does anyone have an opinion on California light works? The solar 220 looks like a pretty great light for my 2x2. I'm seeing solid reviews and successful grow journals. They also have that wild looking Solar Storm 880 which looks like a wet dream for a 4x4.

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Older tech...but they do release their diode specs and they have a Cree option....Cali was one of the 1st legitimate LED companies, but that was 5-6+ years ago and they really haven't updated....

Not like companies like Optic and Area51 and PLC etc, who literally change their product lines actually based on customer feed back [surprise] and quickly too, probably at a notch to their bottom line at times, especially when changing complete product lines in 18months or less...

That's my only beef with Cali, haven't updated in years and prices don't reflect that...otherwise, there are a few journals floating around


The Optics are really nice too! The components are top shelf and thats what matters

It's definitely between Optic, A51, and Cali. The A51 site only shows the prototype model right now and I'm not sure if I want to hang two of those up. It's also a 5 week wait.

The Optic Lighting is looking very promising, I'm just torn between the 120w and 200w vero models. Thinking that 200w might be overkill for the 2x2 with only 5.5' of headroom. Optic's website says that the 120w is optimized for a 2x2 area, but I know that a lot of companies like to exaggerate the footprint a little.

lol KArma no life is good my man i am just putting things into perspective i say grow with what ever you are capable of and have fun while you do it but do not be miss lead into thinking that a cob 1000 watt equivalent will not need exhaust work in your room you will be sadly mis lead i have run 1000's open ended in small rooms with no heat issues no AC nothing just two 4 " vents coming in from outside - 32 degree outside temps i tend to grow out door in summer and indoor in winter doing 3 grows and shutting it down till next winter used to do 200 pound dry out door harvests 1200 plants and 20 - 30 pound indoor for all season so for me effciency means nothing many growers use the heat for there benefit heat is not always a bad thing and to think that most of the smoke we grew up on good and bad have been grown by Hid lights one should refrain from saying led is Superior in quality when its not all that Hid grown frosty as fuck strain can you complain week 4 under 2 k and yield was 4 ..75 pound dry harvest would you think this is not dank looking ?? hence strain , enviroment dictate quality just because you may have a flowering spectrum does not guarantee you your going to have dank weed to many variables i have deleted most of my pictures do to getting nabbed by drugs crime unit but man did i have some nice ones grown under hid
looking forward to seeing even real styles cob grow later in flower presently i think his plants are behind a week or so but still growing n looking good
but until i see cobs or leds pounding out buds like the one on 5 gallon i will stick to hid imagine that instead of buds beside Bic lighters lol

Darth Vapour said:

lol KArma no life is good my man i am just putting things into perspective i say grow with what ever you are capable of and have fun while you do it but do not be miss lead into thinking that a cob 1000 watt equivalent will not need exhaust work in your room you will be sadly mis lead i have run 1000's open ended in small rooms with no heat issues no AC nothing just two 4 " vents coming in from outside - 32 degree outside temps i tend to grow out door in summer and indoor in winter doing 3 grows and shutting it down till next winter used to do 200 pound dry out door harvests 1200 plants and 20 - 30 pound indoor for all season so for me effciency means nothing many growers use the heat for there benefit heat is not always a bad thing and to think that most of the smoke we grew up on good and bad have been grown by Hid lights one should refrain from saying led is Superior in quality when its not all that Hid grown frosty as fuck strain can you complain week 4 under 2 k and yield was 4 ..75 pound dry harvest would you think this is not dank looking ?? hence strain , enviroment dictate quality just because you may have a flowering spectrum does not guarantee you your going to have dank weed to many variables i have deleted most of my pictures do to getting nabbed by drugs crime unit but man did i have some nice ones grown under hid View attachment 3504333View attachment 3504335
looking forward to seeing even real styles cob grow later in flower presently i think his plants are behind a week or so but still growing n looking good
but until i see cobs or leds pounding out buds like the one on 5 gallon i will stick to hid imagine that instead of buds beside Bic lighters lol View attachment 3504343View attachment 3504344 View attachment 3504345 View attachment 3504333 View attachment 3504335

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Tham bro! U the man!!

a 400w with a ballast that lets you load both MH and HPS (I think most brands have this option) and with a dimmer is a nice feature. Works well for 4 medium sized plants or 2-3 bigger ones. I think LEDs are gaining traction but even over the past few months the lights released are already better. So your $400 or $800 set is now not worth as much and there's a supposedly better product out. I'm still waiting on the prices to drop before I give it a try for a purely veg area.

Coco0503 said:

It's definitely between Optic, A51, and Cali. The A51 site only shows the prototype model right now and I'm not sure if I want to hang two of those up. It's also a 5 week wait.

The Optic Lighting is looking very promising, I'm just torn between the 120w and 200w vero models. Thinking that 200w might be overkill for the 2x2 with only 5.5' of headroom. Optic's website says that the 120w is optimized for a 2x2 area, but I know that a lot of companies like to exaggerate the footprint a little.

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Bingo. I have a 2x2.5 space, and I have -2- Optic 120's in it. In an Optic review on this site, JimmyIndica estimated that the true footprint of the 120 is about 18x24 (as opposed to what they say, which is 24x36). The lenses narrow the light delivery considerably. You CAN grow one plant under it, and it WILL produce quality bud (if you take care of the plant, obviously), but you won't get the plant or the space's full production potential with just one 120. So it depends on your budget, and your needs/goals.

Yep, the Optic 120 actual dissipation is 107W. In a 2X2 you get 440 PPFD, on the low side for flowering. A piar of them would be 880, very high intensity and significant heat.

@Darth Vapour those buds look good to me, incoming air was 32F? Not saying good bud can't be grown with HPS if you can keep bud temps under control, just that it creates 2X-3X as much heat to do the same job. For most growers, heat is a major PITA.

As far as bud size, LED can grow even bigger buds than HPS if you were so inclined. Intensity showdown:
1000W DE HPS in a 3X3 = 1635 PPFD and 690W heat
500W CXB3590 X 20 = 1600 PPFD and 212W of waste heat

So the LED would so the same job but less than 1/3rd the heat of the very best HPS. You can put as much light as you want on the plants and mainline it if growing the largest buds possible is your thing. That said, I have noticed that overly large buds tend to be fluffy, are more susceptible to mold due to lack or air ciculation and the inner buds are self-shaded, not great for bag appeal. I try to keep plants that to make multiple tops and aim for dense snicker bar size colas that finish clean in 60 days (orange pistils)

This lady was 600W HPS grown, looks huge in pic but weighed in at 68.9g.


84.2g, 600W HPS. That batch was about


They all looked awesome that run, but in the end it turned out only .57gr/W and it was the best I ever got from HPS. Also worth mentioning, they are nowhere nearly as dank as they are when the same cutting are run under LED with cool canopy temps. Still running the one in the background, SSSDH Shire. Shire is basically mids and takes 10+ weeks to finish in the heat. When run cool (<80F) it finishes in 60 days, yields great and super sticky and stanky, among the best I have ever come across.




LED grown in same bucket with less than half the wattage, 83.2g in 60 days and super stank sticky from top to bottom. That group turned out 1.17 gpw and that was before the CXB3590s came out. Still run this cutting, Sour Jack

I would go with a led in a tent due to the heat. it will stay nice and cool. go with a 600 watt led

driel said:

a 400w with a ballast that lets you load both MH and HPS (I think most brands have this option) and with a dimmer is a nice feature. Works well for 4 medium sized plants or 2-3 bigger ones. I think LEDs are gaining traction but even over the past few months the lights released are already better. So your $400 or $800 set is now not worth as much and there's a supposedly better product out. I'm still waiting on the prices to drop before I give it a try for a purely veg area.

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I agree with you, LEDs are gaining traction and fast. I do like my hps that I switch with a mh bulb. In the same boat as you I want one strictly for veg. I wanna go LED but with it gaining so much traction and getting good results I only see them making them better as time goes. That's when I plan to go with LED when they get it where they want and at a decent price to cover a nice print. Don't want have to rebuy every year or year and a half when something newer and better comes out. With more people using them they will get everything just right. Wish I could make my own but can't, not that good at that kind of stuff.

SupraSPL said:

Darth you make an important point about efficiency, it is not all about payback time in terms of electrical savings from the light alone (unless you are in very high electrical cost area like Hawaii, LA, NYC etc). Looking at the bigger picture, it is about heat and heat management.

1000W DE HPS bare in a 4X4 = 950 PPFD and 690W of waste heat
600W of LED @ 56% efficiency in a 4X4 = 940 PPFD and 298 W of waste heat

Less than half the heat and the LED will yield significantly more in this example along with much higher quality and much less AC, ventilation, circulation etc. A clever grower can use this tech to increase total yields and the LED will pay for itself in days or weeks.

For closet/tent growers, they can double the efficacy of a 1000W DE HPS and squeeze it into a small space without giant ducting or powerful fans. For shed/garage/barn growers they can decrease heat signature increasing stealth that way. Lots of great uses for the tech and efficiency can go much higher than 56% without breaking the bank.

Click to expand...

When you mention higher quality did you mean finished flower quality?