Sell me on switching to LED

SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Yes, I suspect that bud quality is very much affected by bud temperature. I have noticed that many times by running the same cuttings in different conditions. I argue that it is much harder (expensive) to keep bud temps down when lit by HPS versus LED, even when PPFD is the same. Also uniform intensity can reduce hot spots. I hear many growers say that they prefer mid level canopy buds and I think bud temp is the reason.

Mongo you posted some very good looking HPS buds, do you know what your bud temps were or canopy temps?
 
Trippyness

Trippyness

Well-Known Member
OK first of all I am going to go into the 1 major thing you should be looking for.

PAR!!!

Watts does not matter if PAR is where you want it.

Depends on how much money you have to spend?

In my opinion Kind LED K5 are by far the best with 100% adjustable spectrum and built in timers.

PAR is great too.

Now if you need a larger footprint BML Spyder are amazing.

Remember Lumens is for humans. PAR is for plants.

Also, when running LED you have a few things to concider.

LED run cooler than HPS, but if your in a cold place will need extra heat.
LED produce better than HPS no questions.

Depending on your applications you should look into Gavita Double Ended if you got the height.

ANy questions let me know.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I agree PAR in the canopy (PPFD) is one of the most important things for growing. But regarding the Kind LED, it is using generic LEDs that are probably in the range of 20-25% efficient but it is unknown. When it comes to LEDS, if it is unknown, you have to assume the worst (low bin generics).

Cost comparison:
Kind K5 XL750 = 90 PAR W in canopy for $1325 = $15/PAR W in the canopy
1000W DE HPS = 310 PAR W in canopy for $350 = $1.12/PAR W in the canopy
Optic Vero29 360 = 120 PAR W in the canopy for $720 = $6/PAR W in the canopy (COBs running at 42% efficiency)

$15/PAR W in canopy is the going rate for all the LED fixtures that are using generic LEDs. Almost triple the price of a VERO based lamp AND generics make just as much heat as HPS. That is what has been giving LED a bad name.
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Yes, I suspect that bud quality is very much affected by bud temperature. I have noticed that many times by running the same cuttings in different conditions. I argue that it is much harder (expensive) to keep bud temps down when lit by HPS versus LED, even when PPFD is the same. Also uniform intensity can reduce hot spots. I hear many growers say that they prefer mid level canopy buds and I think bud temp is the reason.

Mongo you posted some very good looking HPS buds, do you know what your bud temps were or canopy temps?
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Yes, i keep my canopy at 80 degrees, with about 850 ppm of co2 from a burner. And crank the fuck out of a 3 ton A/C. Oh yea and 2 12 inch fans cooling the lamps...... Fuck and a 10 inch for scrubbing...... Im pretty sure if i was to change over to diy crees id have to cool the same room, not to mention you guys would charge me 50k for the build. I do love your guys lights big time, so much that i dumped 10 grand in to CREE stock. Which is down a bit, but is a crazy moving stock.
 
Coco0503

Coco0503

Well-Known Member
Humanrob said:
Bingo. I have a 2x2.5 space, and I have -2- Optic 120's in it. In an Optic review on this site, JimmyIndica estimated that the true footprint of the 120 is about 18x24 (as opposed to what they say, which is 24x36). The lenses narrow the light delivery considerably. You CAN grow one plant under it, and it WILL produce quality bud (if you take care of the plant, obviously), but you won't get the plant or the space's full production potential with just one 120. So it depends on your budget, and your needs/goals.
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I like that you have experience with that model so here's a question for you:

Would getting the 200w model be more suited for my 2x2? Asking because both the 120 and 200 use only 2 LEDS so I'm not sure if the spread will be any different or just the intensity. The 250w has 4 LEDS on it but with that kind of power won't I have to keep the lights higher off the canopy? With only 5' of headroom, that is my biggest restriction at this point.
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
Coco0503 said:
I like that you have experience with that model so here's a question for you:

Would getting the 200w model be more suited for my 2x2? Asking because both the 120 and 200 use only 2 LEDS so I'm not sure if the spread will be any different or just the intensity. The 250w has 4 LEDS on it but with that kind of power won't I have to keep the lights higher off the canopy? With only 5' of headroom, that is my biggest restriction at this point.
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I don't have enough hands-on experience to answer that question. In this thread -
Vero18 and Vero29 Test Grow - @JimmyIndica tests both units. It's a pretty long thread, but you might find your answers there, or ask him directly.
 
JimmyIndica

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
Coco0503 said:
I like that you have experience with that model so here's a question for you:

Would getting the 200w model be more suited for my 2x2? Asking because both the 120 and 200 use only 2 LEDS so I'm not sure if the spread will be any different or just the intensity. The 250w has 4 LEDS on it but with that kind of power won't I have to keep the lights higher off the canopy? With only 5' of headroom, that is my biggest restriction at this point.
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I would rec using the 200 and when plants start getting to close.Take lenses off. Your really caught in the middle.so to speak. 120 just doesn't have the punching power for your area and 250 is little to much.
So 200watt IMO. and take lenses off. when they get 16inches and under.
 
JimmyIndica

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
Darth Vapour said:
lol KArma no life is good my man i am just putting things into perspective i say grow with what ever you are capable of and have fun while you do it but do not be miss lead into thinking that a cob 1000 watt equivalent will not need exhaust work in your room you will be sadly mis lead i have run 1000's open ended in small rooms with no heat issues no AC nothing just two 4 " vents coming in from outside - 32 degree outside temps i tend to grow out door in summer and indoor in winter doing 3 grows and shutting it down till next winter used to do 200 pound dry out door harvests 1200 plants and 20 - 30 pound indoor for all season so for me effciency means nothing many growers use the heat for there benefit heat is not always a bad thing and to think that most of the smoke we grew up on good and bad have been grown by Hid lights one should refrain from saying led is Superior in quality when its not all that Hid grown frosty as fuck strain can you complain week 4 under 2 k and yield was 4 ..75 pound dry harvest would you think this is not dank looking ?? hence strain , enviroment dictate quality just because you may have a flowering spectrum does not guarantee you your going to have dank weed to many variables i have deleted most of my pictures do to getting nabbed by drugs crime unit but man did i have some nice ones grown under hid View attachment 3504333View attachment 3504335
looking forward to seeing even real styles cob grow later in flower presently i think his plants are behind a week or so but still growing n looking good
but until i see cobs or leds pounding out buds like the one on 5 gallon i will stick to hid imagine that :) instead of buds beside Bic lighters lol View attachment 3504343View attachment 3504344 View attachment 3504345 View attachment 3504333 View attachment 3504335
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1700watts LED in a 5x10 now. 6inch max fan/filter for exhaust and passive intake. No extra ventilation needed.
Its getting cooler now and winters coming? My exhaust is gonna help keep the heat bill down for me:bigjoint:
Vero29 Buds are frosty:weed: And Vero29 makes the big buds:weed:
Darth. Are u ready to switch your setup over to optics yet?o_O
GEDC4016.JPG GEDC3821.JPG
GEDC2986.JPG
 
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Darth Vapour

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
JimmyIndica said:
I am running 1700watts LED in a 5x10 now. 6inch max fan/filter for exhaust and passive intake. No extra ventilation needed.
Its getting cooler now and winters coming? My exhaust is gonna help keep the heat bill down for me:bigjoint:
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Thats awesome i ran 2000 watts HPS 5 x 10 with no ventilation either actually ran heaters cause of the cold temps turning my leafs purple gallery_11738_4815_222195.jpggallery_11738_4815_3427738.jpg
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
You guys!!! Swing dicks around and shit. Who's is better cuz of lamps. Cant believe were still doing this dance especially with all the test results people been give out here.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
You gotta watch out for LED lamps made with cheap Epistar LEDs though, like Mars. I've read that they're about 30% less bright than Crees and last about half as long. That's why Mars lamps are so cheap. I think they must use cheap power supplies too because I've read lots of stories about burnouts. Maybe Mars overdrives them or the current just isn't regulated well enough. I don't know, they just seems to be prone to burning out a lot. I don't know what kind of LEDs other grow light makers use but I'd recommend finding out before buying. I would just go with white Crees myself. I guess you'd have to buy high-bays or just by the raw COB arrays and mount them on heatsinks yourself. This guy got over 1.5 g/w with his DIY Cree lamps. It was 12 plants and a Great White Shark strain so maybe those are keys to getting 1.5+ g/w yields. Maybe it's best to grow more small plants than a few larger ones. He only got 40 some grams per plant but lots of them adds up. He did have a few colored LEDs in there with the whites but they pooped out early on in flowering.

 
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a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
Coco0503 said:
It is with great pleasure to announce that I will be getting the 200w CxB3070 Optic Grow within a month.

You have all been of great help in coming to this decision :)

And to think I almost bought an advanced platinum HAH
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Yea but what strain?????
 
Coco0503

Coco0503

Well-Known Member
The next strain I'll be running is some Blackberry by Nirvana. I'm finishing my AK48 next week and then moving.

After that I'm thinking THC Bomb, HSO Blue Dream, or G13 Pinneaple Express.
 
GoGreenLEDs

GoGreenLEDs

Well-Known Member
Coco0503 said:
It is with great pleasure to announce that I will be getting the 200w CxB3070 Optic Grow within a month.

You have all been of great help in coming to this decision :)

And to think I almost bought an advanced platinum HAH
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Hi Coco,

Glad to hear you are interested in the CXB3070 COB's. We agree they are the best! That's why we use them in our lights.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Coco0503 said:
It is with great pleasure to announce that I will be getting the 200w CxB3070 Optic Grow within a month.

You have all been of great help in coming to this decision :)

And to think I almost bought an advanced platinum HAH
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Looks like a decent unit. Only thing that concerns me is that when I watched the video it showed that it puts out two round beams which overlap a little in the middle and that was where he took the light readings, in that bright spot. Since that was two beams overlapping, logic tells us that each beam must be half that reading. That's gonna be about 490 par since the overlap zone was 980. Looks like you really need two cobs aimed at the same spot so they completely overlap to get high par in the whole beam area, which I suppose would be slightly oval shaped. Maybe you can take them out of the metal case or somehow adjust their angles.
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
As you increase the distance from the lamp to the canopy, the circles overlap with each other more and more. Not sure if we end up with the perfect distance to canopy and even coverage that way but it definitely helps.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
As you increase the distance from the lamp to the canopy, the circles overlap with each other more and more. Not sure if we end up with the perfect distance to canopy and even coverage that way but it definitely helps.
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Maybe it would be more even and square shaped without the lenses on. Also, with that 2 cob unit the OP is buying, maybe he could just angle the lenses to focus the two beams together rather than angling the actual cobs themselves. Like put someting under the outer edges of the lenses as a spacer. If you focused them both together into one circle it should be pretty high par.
 
Coco0503

Coco0503

Well-Known Member
Actually, after speaking with the guys over at Go Green LED I'll be grabbing their 200w LED grow light with four CxB3070's running at 50w each. The 4 lights will give me excellent coverage in my tent and with their excellent warranty and return policy on top of 6 month financing I couldn't pass it up.

I still plan on running a 600w HPS/MH grow light for the 4x4 tent just because of the cost in LED to cover that area would have my wallet begging for mercy.

Regarding everyone's concerns about temperature, I'm not worried at all. The room the tents are in is kept around 67 degrees Fahrenheit and the fans are replacing the air so rapidly that the tent temperature stays relatively close to the room temp. On top of the clip on fan I have the heat around the light is negligible. The 600w I will have running through my exhaust line so I am also not worried about that currently. Only time will tell though.
 
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