Searchin for fire in some old school cool

Farmer's Hat said:

I'm thinking about trying that this year. I will have to do lots of research in preparation.

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You can pick my brain anytime, I've seen your grows, your ON POINT so there's not a whole I can offer up aside from soil recipe or fermentation (knf shit).

GreenGenez421 said:

I've noticed that as well, plants need their own personal space. In my grows I never go beyond 8 and I give them each a 2'x2'x22" that seems to be working fairly well. But honestly I think it comes down to each plant having what I needs everytime it needs it. Roots go wherever they want and I definitely have an intertwined network going on, but the real secret..... I feel is the microbial herd and the biome they establish.

2 years back i grew out some tomatoes in 18gal SIP outdoors, I had several plants in each, and even with hard walls and crowed roots, they cranked out tomatoes like I've never seen before. Strange enough tho, the 2 other containers I was using, (fabric 30 gal pot and a 12 gal plastic pot) those plants didn't do anywhere near what the SIPs did. The main difference...... constant access to water and never drying back...... so, water and microbial vitality.

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Incredible. My only rebuttal, is that the dry back seems crucial to prevent fungus gnat infestation. I know there are other ways to combat gnats, but letting the top soil dry back hard seems to work very effectively at preventing the population from growing to an obnoxious amount. Ive personally seen it work exceptionally well.

@MissinThe90’sStrains Have you seen any fungus gnats in your space? Im curious about this. It seems gnats are unavoidable in peat moss potting mixes.

Farmer's Hat said:

Incredible. My only rebuttal, is that the dry back seems crucial to prevent fungus gnat infestation. I know there are other ways to combat gnats, but letting the top soil dry back hard seems to work very effectively at preventing the population from growing to an obnoxious amount. Ive personally seen it work exceptionally well.

@MissinThe90’sStrains Have you seen any fungus gnats in your space? Im curious about this. It seems gnats are unavoidable in peat moss potting mixes.

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Absolutely a dry back helps with gnats, but it's very counter productive with organics. The top most 2-3" is a haven for the microbes, and if your top dressing raw organics, a dry back is the worst thing you can do. Mulch, mulch ,mulch! I've had pretty good luck using cocao bean hulls. Once they're fully hydrated, they'll "lock up" when slightly dried on surface. Plus the trichoderma seems to really prefer colonizing it. Almost creates a barrier and i believe the trichoderma creates myco toxins as a means of self defence. But I do, no matter what always use BT-i just as an added measure. I rarely see fliers and never see larva.

This is the only shit in my arsenal. Used very very sparingly, primarily for foliar needs....3 things I'm out of atm..., photosynthesis + and fish manure. The powerhouse is the 2L soda bottle of fermented aloe very. More valuable than gold!!! Each has their respective purpose and are not solely relied upon. (With the exception of fulvic and BT-i) Moreless a failsafe

@Farmer's Hat , I did have fungus gnats really badly in my last run. It got so bad that I even tried to start the previous flower run with huge protective bags on my 15 gal pots. I treated with insecticidal soap spray on top, used my vacuum hose to grab the fliers as they tried to escape, and then BT over dose in the water (Rec is a few drops per gallon of microbe lift BMC, I used up to a TBSP per gallon for a few weeks) and I was able to establish predatory/beneficial mites that may have come in with my castings. I have seen 2 gnats in my mom tent since the summer, and zero in the last flower cycle. Sticky traps are clean. The rice hull mulch seems to have helped out a lot, whether as a deterrent, or helping keep the environment below nicer for the beneficials that battle the gnats.

@GreenGenez421 I need to up my game for sure - and making KNF stuff, gathering IMO and expanding it, making LABs and some other ferments is on my list for sure. I’ve read, watched videos, and have taken notes but am worried about having another project to “keep alive”, lol. My life is a 3 legged stumbling shitshow right now, and I need to keep stuff easy, so I don’t have to micromanage more stuff every day. I’ve got 2 kids with special needs and difficulties, and am the caretaker for my sick wife (cancer). I hope to one day get into making that kind of stuff, but I’m not sure Im ready to add another project to my list.

This super soil style of growing means I can put in all my work/time/effort in ahead of time (a few hours here and there while the kids are in school) and then the actual growing mostly takes care of itself, if I can buffer the environment properly. I can make up and store a years worth of soil, and recycling it keeps costs low and helps me keep a closed system to keep it clean and help keep it pest free.

I grow my veggies outside with similar dry supplements in raised beds, and use my supersoil for starting those seedlings too. I’m trying to get my indoor garden on par with my veggies outside. Raised beds inside would be awesome, but I think they’d be tougher to manage if I got pests or messed up the soil mix. 2 15 gallon pots, re-amended with castings and perlite/vermiculite fill my 40 gallon totes pretty nicely. I’ve got a pretty good balance right now with my setup and I like the way it’s trending. I’ve come a long way since my first no-help grow in 2010.

GreenGenez421 said:

This is the only shit in my arsenal. Used very very sparingly, primarily for foliar needs....3 things I'm out of atm..., photosynthesis + and fish manure. The powerhouse is the 2L soda bottle of fermented aloe very. More valuable than gold!!! Each has their respective purpose and are not solely relied upon. (With the exception of fulvic and BT-i) Moreless a failsafe

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You're gonna have to share some more secrets about your potions (ferments) there, Wizard! Ive got aloe powder, fresh aloe plants, and powdered coconut water right now. Do you make your KNF with your prunings, or do you gather stuff from outside? I have some comfrey I established outside, but winter weather has beat it back pretty good. I was hoping to start making ferments this year, but life got a bit crazy.

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

making KNF stuff, gathering IMO and expanding it, making LABs and some other ferments is on my list for sure.

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You'll get there, once you get rolling, shit...., nothing will slow you down.
Also my wife was diagnosed with ovarian 3 years ago, fucking Johnson& Johnson baby powder man! Thank God she came out on top but we still have 3 more years until we hit 5yrs, so she's not completely in the clear but even at that, nothings a guarantee. Fuck I hate the pharmaceutical industry so much!!!!!!! But my heart goes out to you and with your kiddos too. This is a true testament to your soul, keep your head up and make every day count. It takes a strong man to accept it, but takes an even stronger one to adjust and overcome. Your that man!!! And this too will pass!

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

This super soil style of growing means I can put in all my work/time/effort in ahead of time (a few hours here and there while the kids are in school) and then the actual growing mostly takes care of itself, if I can buffer the environment properly. I can make up and store a years worth of soil, and recycling it keeps costs low and helps me keep a closed system to keep it clean and help keep it pest free.

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Absolutely, and if you add the right conditioners, ammendments and microbes..... plus maintain your soil hydrostatic pressure, your garden will grow out of control. You'll be implementing control measures to minimize, rather than maximize. You my friend, certainly have a strong grasp on what it takes and I can tell, the determination to see it through.

The IMP program is a must,..... Never, Ever, disregard it. Mother nature will fuck you in the ass, when you least expect it. Always stay prepared. She always has a way of prevailing, you just need to learn how to use it to your advantage. I know you will. You've got that spark already, the organic itch. Lol


I grow my veggies outside with similar dry supplements in raised beds, and use my supersoil for starting those seedlings too. I’m trying to get my indoor garden on par with my veggies outside. Raised beds inside would be awesome, but I think they’d be tougher to manage if I got pests or messed up the soil mix. 2 15 gallon pots, re-amended with castings and perlite/vermiculite fill my 40 gallon totes pretty nicely. I’ve got a pretty good balance right now with my setup and I like the way it’s trending. I’ve come a long way since my first no-help grow in 2010.

On the contrary, raised beds indoors is a huge commitment, but the payoff is more than deserved. You'll find everything needs less intervention and/or attention. Pruning and training, light distance is the only thing i do. My watering system is on auto pilot via blumat soaker hose and a pump hooked up to my 350gpd RODI. I have an accumulator tank of 2 gal and pressure switches set to 100psi. but a basic 60psi out the tap is sufficient for the psi break adapter that required with a on demand pump system.
Little by little brother, that's how I did it.

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

You're gonna have to share some more secrets about your potions (ferments) there, Wizard! Ive got aloe powder, fresh aloe plants, and powdered coconut water right now. Do you make your KNF with your prunings, or do you gather stuff from outside? I have some comfrey I established outside, but winter weather has beat it back pretty good. I was hoping to start making ferments this year, but life got a bit crazy.

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Lmao, it kinda seems that way. Magic!! Mother nature nailed it, I'm just exploiting her ways.

As far as aloe, id use fresh, that's always the best and as needed. Mabey every 2-3 weeks with a drench or you can go weekly in veg with foliar 1tbsp/L. Make sure to tag every square inch of leaf, top and bottom. I like to do it in the dark cycle, but the time the lights come on, plants are dry and in full gear. Powdered works well too and is second best to fresh. Definitely use it if you've got it. Coconut water tho, I haven't used powdered, only liquid out of the terra packs. I'd imagine tho the powdered is better due to the lack of preservatives to keep it. Solid choice!

For the ferments, yeah man, I'll use comfrey, nettle, dead nettle, clover , chia, burdock, ivy, horsetail and ive even use freshwater lake weeds before. Most come from the yard, and I'm fortunate enough to have a lake front home, so it moreless a waste product everyone removes from the shoreline and just piles up to rot or they burn it. Waste not want not, right?

But you can also use fruits, veggies. Spices and herbs for fermentation, they all have specific nutritional properties that pass on. Look into Bokashi composting, it can be done indoors and stink free, plus you get the leechate that accumulates in the bottom of the composer. Crack the spigot and make up some foliar or drench.... or bottle it. It'll keep for a year in the fridge or add brown sugar to arrest it and make it shelf stable for a couple years.

I’d like to start out with ferments that can keep dormant for a while and then be re-activated later on as needed. I don’t want to have to actively feed cultures and keep them: bubbling, aerated, mixed, alive, fed/happy….

I’ve starting a new planted fish tank, and I’m hoping to use the fish water as a sort of biological primer for the garden (as suggested by The Rev, in his TLO Druid edition book). I’ve also got ”Teeming with Microbes” sitting on the shelf and waiting to be read. I’ve got some more homework to do, for sure.

edit : also, thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate the support and healthy distraction that this community provides sometimes.

One thing I forgot..... SST (seed sprout tea)
Fucking powerhouse man!!!! It must be used fresh and within 15-20 minutes of blending otherwise it has to be fermented to preserve the enzymes. This is a refrigerator item for its entire lifespan. Don't allow it to come to room temp after the fermentation is arrested. It's a natural PGR for root growth and auxiliary branching. Highly beneficial when pruning. Rapid recovery!!!!

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

I’d like to start out with ferments that can keep dormant for a while and then be re-activated later on as needed. I don’t want to have to actively feed cultures and keep them: bubbling, aerated, mixed, alive, fed/happy….

I’ve starting a new planted fish tank, and I’m hoping to use the fish water as a sort of biological primer for the garden (as suggested by The Rev, in his TLO Druid edition book). I’ve also got ”Teeming with Microbes” sitting on the shelf and waiting to be read. I’ve got some more homework to do, for sure.

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Fish/aquatic manure is gold bro!!! It's the sole reason why aquaponics work, well that and the bacteria in the bio- reactor. Commonly referred to as a protein skimmer.
This is the brand I use if your looking for a semi dry product that shelf stable. A little goes a long way....

GreenGenez421 said:

One thing I forgot..... SST (seed sprout tea)
Fucking powerhouse man!!!! It must be used fresh and within 15-20 minutes of blending otherwise it has to be fermented to preserve the enzymes. This is a refrigerator item for its entire lifespan. Don't allow it to come to room temp after the fermentation is arrested. It's a natural PGR for root growth and auxiliary branching. Highly beneficial when pruning. Rapid recovery!!!!

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Cool, I’ve got a bag of malted barley for this, just never knew how to use it. I add a bit to my soil mix. I’m still trying to figure out all the growth hormones and their proper applications and timing.

MissinThe90’sStrains said:

Cool, I’ve got a bag of malted barley for this, just never knew how to use it. I add a bit to my soil mix. I’m still trying to figure out all the growth hormones and their proper applications and timing.

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Malted barley is good for proteins and sugars. Not enzymes, they've been killed off during the heating process. Still, excellent to use, just be sparingly with it. You get the dreaded claw with too much. The enzymes and PGR your after is from sprouting raw seed. Corn, mung bean, barley, wheat is ideal. I like mung and corn best

GreenGenez421 said:

Malted barley is good for proteins and sugars. Not enzymes, they've been killed off during the heating process. Still, excellent to use, just be sparingly with it. You get the dreaded claw with too much. The enzymes and PGR your after is from sprouting raw seed. Corn, mung bean, barley, wheat is ideal. I like mung and corn best

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Which specific growth hormones are you getting from those? I have growth hormones from the kelp, aloe, coconut, and alfalfa already and would hate to overdo it.

(linking this for my reference purposes later - specific growth hormones and their plant uses. I’ll probably have to take notes on this)

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MissinThe90’sStrains said:

Which specific growth hormones are you getting from those? I have growth hormones from the kelp, aloe, coconut, and alfalfa already and would hate to overdo it.

(linking this for my reference purposes later - specific growth hormones and their plant uses. I’ll probably have to take notes on this)

How hormones and growth regulators affect your plants

Plant hormones and growth regulators are chemicals that affect flowering, aging, root growth, distortion and killing of organs, prevention or promotion of stem elongation, color enhancement of fruit, prevention of leafing and/or leaf fall, and many other conditions.

extension.oregonstate.edu

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You have your ground covered with your current line-up. The main thing, is making sure based on your present growth phase, whichever that may be, give a little boost to root development, or terminal shoot elongation (like i said earlier, can be very beneficial and even more so for select phenos with the implementation of pruning, redirects the dominant hormone), and flower.

Now I'm not saying hit them with everything and the kitchen sink, but a little boost every so often isn't going to "shock them", so to say. It's a boost, and coupled with the right environmental conditions and thriving soil biome will only speed up the biological processes, not only in the plant, but also the mechanism that drives it,.... the microbes.

A bit off topic but still relevant.... the CEC of the media and the values/balance/base form of your minerals within, all dictate the ease in which single or double +/- elements stick or release from the media particles. So supplementing a "boost" here and there certainly will have a "cause & effect" outcome, applied at the right time of growth..... only excellerates that specific targeted mechanism.

I don't use alfalfa very often, or quite honestly any dry ammendment, aside from the fermented grain, ewc, fish manure, compost, biochar and my cover crop turned fodder. In-between crops i allow my soils hydrostatic pressure to rise about 60Mbar and then after I replace my drip lines on top of all my compost and what not additions, I rehydrate the soil with my fermented extracts. Like a medium/strong nutrient feed. For a 4x8 at 22" deep it's about 4 gallons to bring me back to my target pressure. Mulch the surface and give her a week while you re-seed the cover crop. Start the cycle all over again.... water only unless a "boost" is appropriate.

Other than that, the natural harmony of a bio diverse ecosystem is an auto pilot machine without all the extra hormone bullshit, and acceleration of target mechanisms. Like they say. DONT PANIC, ITS ORGANIC.

Do you use worms in your beds? What do you do with your trim and prunings - FPJ, bokashi, compost, worm farm ? Your system is a more advanced living system than mine, being that it’s no till and cover cropped and fed with ferments. I know your microbe colonies are a lot better, probably lets you feed less and more efficiently too. My plants do well with my cooked soil, but timing my topdressings is a struggle, and my amendments are pretty “raw”. I think I need to focus on my microbes to help them work more efficiently.

I’m recycling my plant material in my soil mixes to keep building up the organic matter in my (peat based) soil, and thinking about adding worms next. I just don't think they’d survive my process of re-amending and cooking soil after every run. I’d like to get away from buying castings, because that’s my biggest expense right now between runs. I figured more organic material via recycling means I can buy less castings. I’ve got a compost tumbler outside, but I’m concerned about bringing all that creepie crawlie stuff inside. It’s been years since I’ve had to deal with anything but gnats, and I don’t want to go down that path again. Is “steri-ganic” a thing ?

Took clones of my old moms, and am still waiting for a couple to root. I cracked the root plugs to check them, and they have calluses and root buds that have started forming, so I should be good in a couple days. Neville’s G13 x Headband cuts are in solos. Saints Crossing and Kings Banner x Old 70’s indica will replace their respective “old moms” that are a year old. Grape Bubba, still not sure if I’ll keep or not. Weed is ok, but the node spacing is a bit long and it stretches a lot, making the plant big and a bit difficult to manage. MTF short pheno rooted fastest and is backed up.

Started a few new beans to test:

ACE - CBD #1 - 1 fem. I’m just starting one from this 5 pack. These are reported to have been worked for several years, to consistently provide super low THC (below 1%) and high CBD (mid to high teens %) in lab tests. ACE seems pretty proud to offer these, and I need something that’s been well-worked and consistent, because lab testing for flower may not be available in my state.

I can’t find a ton of details about Inkognyto and the seller was a bit evasive in answering questions, but I’m trying them anyway because the lineages are all killer if they are true. This breeder has supposedly been underground doing their thing for a while, breeding mostly for med patients. The few reviews and forum posts I’ve read all say great things about this breeder.….. so I’m giving them a shot for the first time.

All of the strains claim to have been well worked, and I was told that I should be able to find pretty consistent and solid phenos, without having to hunt a bunch of beans - so we’re trying 2 fems from a few different packs to see what fire this dude brings.

Here’s some Inkognyto strain info and their offerings.

Inkognyto - Mamba (Chem D x ‘98 Bubba Kush) x (Chem D x ‘98 Bubba Kush) 2 Fem - R1 ? F2 S1 ? Can’t find good info.

Inkognyto - Blueberry O.G. (Outkast Blueberry Bx x Pestilence) - 2 fem
https://seedfinder.eu/en/strain-info/pestilence/unknown-or-legendary. (Pestilence info)
https://www.icmag.com/threads/rip-outcast.18125785/. (OutKast and Blueberry info)

Inkognyto - Kona Sunset x Ohio Deathstar - 2 fem - The Kona Sunset is reportedly from GooeyBreeder